[RELz/WIPz] Zealotlee's MP5 Pack

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 12:17 am

*sigh*

I didn't want to get into this...but it seems I have no choice...

Very well. Those who are sensitive, however, I strongly urge to skip this post. Some gruesome details will have to be explained.

Now, wounding with projectiles basically is the sum of two factors: PENETRATION and SIZE OF WOUND CAVITY.

Penetration is in turn a factor of bullet shape, mass, and velocity. Wound cavity depends partially on the diameter of the bullet, but mainly on whether the bullet expands in the body or not, and whether the bullet tumbles inside the body or not.

The ideal bullet for wounding, therefore, must be fast and heavy enough to penetrate deeply into the body, but not so fast and heavy that the only wound cavity left in the body is the tunnel track that the bullet leaves as it punches into the body and punches out the other side and then goes on its merry way towards the horizon. No, it should ideally enter the body deeply, then either expand inside the body or tumble AND REMAIN INSIDE THE BODY.

*This, BTW, is why all the armies of the world changed from the .308 type rifle rounds of WW2 (7.7 British .303, 7.92 German Mauser, 7.5 French Hotkiss, etc) to the smaller, deadlier 7.62 x 39 (ex-Warsaw Pact Standard) and the 5.56 x 45 (NATO and US Standard) bullets after WW2.*

Now, bullets which expand (Dum Dum Bullets, named after the Arsenal where the British first Manufactured them, in Dum Dum, India) have been outlawed by International Treaty since the 1920s. This of course has not prevented rogue shooters from deliberately making expanding bullets, the most common way being the filing off of the tips of the bullets.
This is necessary since the metal jacket covering of modern bullets prevents them from expanding like the round lead balls of the musket era (This answers your point of the killing power of musket balls!).

For the layman, an excellent description of how an ordinary jacketed rifle bullet can be turned into an illegal dum dum bullet may be found in Frederick Forsyth's "the Day of the Jackal" novel. For a more detailed and technical explanations of how various designs for jacketed dum dums were conceived, the Jane's magazines are a good place. I also reccomend Anthony William's books and website, although his terminal ballistics explanations are a bit sketchy.

However most of the research since WW2 has focused on the 'legal' way of wounding, which is the 'fast tumbler' bullet. This is a bullet which is deliberately designed to be tail-heavy and to be stable only through high spin (which means that the barrel has to be rifled for a "fast" pitch) and which, therefore, will tumble, twist, bend, deform, and fragment inside the body after it has penentrated to a depth of ten inches or so. The russians in their latest 5.45 bullet achieved this by only partially filling the bullet with lead and leaving an air gap at the tip.

Now about the wounding effects of large bullets...

In WW2 and subsequent conflicts, Field Army Surgeons of all armies found that the easiest wounds to treat were those of soldiers whom had been hit by aircraft bullets of the .50 cal or even larger 20 mm. The heavy weight and high velocity of these bullets made for small, clean wounds that only needed stitches for the most part. There are many other factors in wounding, of course, such as whether the bullet had hit anything solid before hitting the soldier, but generally speaking, a clean shot by a heavy machine gun or cannon was a clean wound. Whereas a smaller bullet such as the 9mm bullet used in submachine guns made for a MUCH dirtier and nastier wound that would destroy more body tissue, and cause massive internal and external bleeding...

In Vietnam, US soldiers found that the best shot for the M-16 was between 5-15 meters, because the bullet was still unstable at so short a range. The tumble effect of the bullet was so huge that it was not at all unusual for entire limbs to be torn off by a single bullet strike.

Two bullets striking close together create a synegy that is greater than the sum of their seperate wounding paths.

Now, some points regarding sniping IRL.

As every experienced shooter knows, wind direction, wrong estimate of range, hand shaking, and even elevation above sea level and air temperature plays havoc with bullet aim, especially at ranges greater than 500 meters. This is why defensive snipers have already pre-zeroed various landmarks on a battlefield for range, so that when a target moves near that landmark the range is already calculated. Offensive snipers of course do not have that luxury.

For this reason snipers, especially offensive snipers, either set up a shot using not seconds but minutes in aiming and fine turning their shots...and they nearly always have an assistant to help calculate the range, wind sideslip, and the 101 other things that can ruin a shot. This is why snipers place in counterterrorist sniping are trained to shoot in SALVO - a snap shot by a sniper at long range will nearly always miss, which is why salvo fire is necessary. (You do not have the luxury of taking five minutes to set up a shot in counterrorism shooting!)

And it is that 'salvo fire' that I have tried to replicate, on a small scale, with my twin barrel.

Regarding Armor piercing...

The vanilla .308 will pierce today's body armour easily at a range of 200 meters, and has a greater than 50% chance up to 400 meters.

Of course, power armour will probably be better than today's kelvar...and that's the unknown. How much better? A good rule of thumb is that it takes an equal thickness of face hardened nickel steel armour plate to the diameter of the bullet to stop it...so 8 mm of armour plate should stop a .308 at 400 meters. However, at 100 meters all bets are off. And we are talking of vanilla bullets here, not the tungsten core armor piercing variety.
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Dominic Vaughan
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 6:01 am

Well, aside from the name of the gun(Foxy's Doubledeath?) I think that the proposed gun would be very nice to have, and would work very nicely.
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Jonathan Braz
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 5:50 am

"This new armor allowed the wearer to level whole towns without getting hurt."

Penetrate a .308 through this.

To be more exact, of the T-45d model which was weaker than T-51b and much more so than APA MkII: (...) it had the power to destroy entire towns without endangering the wearer. In 2076, the more advanced T-51b was introduced."
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Robert Bindley
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 1:50 pm

Revival!

So sometime soon I should be releasing an update which will include... you guessed it, the MP5K!!! I also fixed a lot of bugs that I had with the last release like the magazines being positioned oddly and the weapons not being added to any leveled lists. I've also noted a major change. CALIBR will be REQUIRED now for the mod, since the gun will now exclusively use 9x19mm rounds. I finally figured out how to add ammo to the proper leveled lists so you should be able to buy the ammo from vendors and find it randomly around the world along with finding it on raiders, talon company, outcasts, and slavers. The SD5 version I've made a bit more rare to find than the A4 version as well. The MP5K will be among the common weapons as well. I will also most likely change the location that you can find all the MP5s at to somewhere else in the wasteland seeing as it's more of a weapon to use at lower levels in some cases, perhaps the Bethesda ruins will do.
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Mason Nevitt
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 2:24 am

So now I've run into an issue with the MP5K nif. The trigger is doing odd things. It's initial position looks fine, but once I fire it the trigger now looks like http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/7430/whyyyyw.jpg Any ideas on how to fix it? This is pretty much ready to be released today aside from this one little problem.

Also does anyone know a good way to test to see if my weapons are spawning in the leveled lists? I know they got added to the vendor lists just fine but I want to see some raiders carrying MP5s to alleviate my concerns.
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Saul C
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 2:15 am

What I do to test that is disable most other things that add weapons to them and then just run through the largest raider inhabited places. This way there is less weapons for them to use so better chance it pops up. Although I guarrantee there is another way. Also did you by any chance make the MP5 navy? The one with the retractable stock. I hate the one with the full stock.
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Big Homie
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 2:29 am

AGGHH!!! I wanna kill something!

Buetiful fearful looking weapons Zealotlee! Truly just seeing these will keep law and order in a crowded mob and if not oh well..FUN TIME!

Thanks for the eye popping jaw dropping work Zealotlee :foodndrink:

Hail Zealotlee! The Artist magnificent!
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Tyrel
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 12:27 am

What I do to test that is disable most other things that add weapons to them and then just run through the largest raider inhabited places. This way there is less weapons for them to use so better chance it pops up. Although I guarrantee there is another way. Also did you by any chance make the MP5 navy? The one with the retractable stock. I hate the one with the full stock.

I didn't, so you're stuck with the full stock. Sorry mang. I'll try adding them to more of the raider lists and see what happens, it could be that the list I'm using has a very low chance of spawning those weapons.

And thanks for the compliments, Hellbishop. Now if I could only figure out that issue with the MP5K nif I'd be set to release this thing...
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Sanctum
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 1:54 am

Eh its ok that you don't have the Navy model. I made one with canabalism. That stock came right off and I had a resource pack of mix match gun parts, one happened to be the rear of a MP5 retractable stock. Some kit bashing can do a lot of things ^_^
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Hayley O'Gara
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 4:14 am

I just updated it to 1.3! Go get it at FO3 Nexus!
http://fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5431
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Angelina Mayo
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 1:11 pm

are you going to do a version with out the level list?
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roxxii lenaghan
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 9:27 am

If enough people demand it maybe. Most of the stuff is added via a script so if you want you could go in and change the script not to add them to the leveled lists.
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Kate Norris
 
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Post » Mon May 16, 2011 10:48 pm

i mean the reason i was sayin a no lvled list version is because it could conflict with a few other mods. like toxas stalker armory mod for example.
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luis ortiz
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 11:57 am

I've come to believe if they are added via script they are compatible with mods that directly edit LvL'd Lists, but I may be wrong.
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Ben sutton
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 4:36 am

I've come to believe if they are added via script they are compatible with mods that directly edit LvL'd Lists, but I may be wrong.


They are so there shouldn't be any worries.
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Gill Mackin
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 7:32 am

In the latest release it seems I goofed and recomplied ALL of the scripts in my mod, so now it can break certain mods. Is there a way I can go and delete all the script entries out of my mod that aren't mine? I don't know what effect would be of just deleting all the scripts with my mod loaded will have.
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Grace Francis
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 9:46 am

FO3Edit has a option to 'Remove "Identical to Master" Records'. I haven't tried it personally, but it might be able to solve your problem. Or you can use FO3Edit to manually delete the scripts that your mod doesn't change. Basically, you probably need to use FO3Edit.
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Emmi Coolahan
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 8:43 am

Cool, that seemed to fix it! The fixed version is uploaded now.
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gemma king
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 10:06 am

Something looks odd about the magazine.
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C.L.U.T.C.H
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 11:20 am

Well I'd like to add a vote for the leveled lists to have these be rare.

I recently added this to my FWE game since T3T made http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1094530-relz-t3tforfwe/.

The problem http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1094530-relz-t3tforfwe/page__view__findpost__p__15988366 is that every other raider has one and it totally feels unbalanced. They are ripping me to shreds and that is with a lvl 10 character in power armor and trained in combat.

For the meantime I'm taking the mod out as it is just ridiculous the amount of these things I've found in the short span of playing the game.

please consider this.

thanks
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Emily Shackleton
 
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