I am working on a `yet another level system modifier' (yalsm for short) and I love the idea of failure based increment for certain abilities: unfortunately I could not understand how achieve this effect.

I wanted to see how Jilin did in the http://khalazza.production.free.fr/view_plugin.php?ref=28, but unfortunately the mirror of the mod file seems down since some time now.

So: do anyone have a copy of the mod or can explain me how to obtain the effect?
Thanks

It might not be the best way, but I understood you can check if a failure sound is playing.

I sure hope you can make this happen. Skill improvement should be generated by failure rather than success; after all, in real life we learn from our mistakes.

I do not like using the word `realism' or compare to `real life' when talking about fantasy worlds: for example I find slightly ridiculous the name of `vampire realism' mod; what does it mean? that it removes the vampires? (it is just and example: name a part I like that mod)


The main point is fun, the second point is gameplay:
I love the idea of a skill system where the progress is based on failures because it gently pushes the player seeking new challenges: killing rats after a while will become not only boring but also useless as you'll always hit.
Casting the `1 point of shock damage on touch' spell when you started understanding a little of Destruction will be unneeded as you'll always cast it successfully.

With the normal system instead you are encouraged to seek weak opponents (for weapons skills) or casting needlessly extremely easy spells. I do not find it very fun... The problem is still there with spells: players will make impossible to cast spells in order to improve their knowledge, but since it will cost much more magika I think it is still better.

Good news: I think I got the way. Here are my notes, soundsID between commas and other notes about supplementary checks I'll need.

Alchemy "potion fail"
Alteration "Spell Failure Alteration"
Armorer "repair fail"
Axe "miss" Player->GetWeaponType 7,8
Blunt_Weapon "miss" Player->GetWeaponType 3,4,5
Conjuration "Spell Failure Conjuration"
Destruction "Spell Failure Destruction"
Enchant "enchant fail"
Hand_to_hand "miss" Player->GetWeaponType -1
Illusion "Spell Failure Illusion"
Long_Blade "miss" Player->GetWeaponType 1,2
Marksman "miss" Player->GetWeaponType 9,10,11
Mysticism "Spell Failure Mysticism"
Restoration "Spell Failure Restoration"
Security "Disarm Trap Fail", "Open Lock Fail"
Short_Blade "miss" Player->GetWeaponType 0
Spear "miss" Player->GetWeaponType 6

Unfortunately it wont work on all the skills (e.g., Armours) and in few cases (e.g, Enchant) mixing my idea with the standard one might not be possible.

I think what's meant by "realism" in this context is verisimilitude. "Vampire realism" means, at least to me, that vampires are handled in the game in a way consistent with what we think would happen if there were vampires in real life.


I couldn't agree more. Another benefit of a failure-based system is that low-level characters will level up faster, but high-level ones will stall out unless they, as you say, seek out greater and greater challenges.

The problem of improving by trying the impossible could be handled by awarding experience points only for failing at things which you have some chance of succeeding at. If I were designing the system, I'd give full points for failing if you had a 50% chance or better of succeeding, and scale it down if you have less of a chance than that, down to nothing if you have a zero chance. I don't know if this is possible to implement in a mod, though.

Unfortunately I am fairly sure it is not... But Bethesda! Listen!

Sorry for double post, but your post gave me an an idea that might take the best of two worlds:
You actually gain points both on failure and on success, but scaled on the chance.
In formulae being y the maximum points you can gain with one action and x (a number from 0 to 1) the chance of success.
You gain:
y * (1 - x) in case of success
and
y * x in case of failure.

You would learn much both from a unexpected failure (e.g., high level char that misses a rat) and from an unexpected success (e.g., making an extremely powerful magic item).

`normal' challenges (around 50% of success ) will teach you almost the same in case of failure or success.

Instead the expected (hitting a rat from a high level char or missing a giant daemon from a first level char) will teach nothing.

Of course the formula x vs (1-x) might be improved, but it gives the idea.

once again: it is impossible to make via mod: but openMW might be ready soon or later...