» Tue May 17, 2011 12:46 am Like I said, gamers like to think so, but this is not really so much the case.
What you are talking about is more in the category of dodging (which is a combination of evading, deflecting and retracting from the force of the blow) NOT "armor wearing skill". In combat you would do this whether you have armor on or not, wearing armor helps because it absorbs force, but that makes it armor not a "skill".
I know it seems logical (what you are saying) and that is part of why it has been a misconception for so long in Melee combat games.
But the fact is that there is no such "armor wearing skill" taught in Melee combat. Not in historical manuscripts and not in heavy weapons martial arts such as in the SCA.
But I do not wish to debate this further, I am not feeling up to it. It is your mod so do what you like as you need to be happy with it not me right?
As to the shield, the main difference would be durability. A wood shield and steel shield both block the same sword blow equally. Otherwise it would be a "plank of wood" not a "shield". But the steel shield is expected to last longer.
Now if we could use damage types in this game it would be a different story altogether. In general wood blocks arrows better than steel pound for pound. It has to do with the way wood absorbs the kinetic energy differently than steel does. And wood stops the heat of fire much better than steel, but wood will not last nearly as long as steel while doing so. But this is all very moot because Oblivion cannot/does not evaluate different damage types.
BTW Oblivion does not do locational hits, armor damage is done randomly by the game. There is no collision detection for individually parts of armor. That is why several modders including myself have had to make locational hit mods.
I am going back to bed, good luck with this, this is indeed a good mod concept, it is just that it cannot be done "right" with the tools available at this time. But you only need to get it to "feel right" in YOUR game, that is what is important for you if you are going to make the mod.
What you are talking about is more in the category of dodging (which is a combination of evading, deflecting and retracting from the force of the blow) NOT "armor wearing skill". In combat you would do this whether you have armor on or not, wearing armor helps because it absorbs force, but that makes it armor not a "skill".
I know it seems logical (what you are saying) and that is part of why it has been a misconception for so long in Melee combat games.
But the fact is that there is no such "armor wearing skill" taught in Melee combat. Not in historical manuscripts and not in heavy weapons martial arts such as in the SCA.
But I do not wish to debate this further, I am not feeling up to it. It is your mod so do what you like as you need to be happy with it not me right?
As to the shield, the main difference would be durability. A wood shield and steel shield both block the same sword blow equally. Otherwise it would be a "plank of wood" not a "shield". But the steel shield is expected to last longer.
Now if we could use damage types in this game it would be a different story altogether. In general wood blocks arrows better than steel pound for pound. It has to do with the way wood absorbs the kinetic energy differently than steel does. And wood stops the heat of fire much better than steel, but wood will not last nearly as long as steel while doing so. But this is all very moot because Oblivion cannot/does not evaluate different damage types.
BTW Oblivion does not do locational hits, armor damage is done randomly by the game. There is no collision detection for individually parts of armor. That is why several modders including myself have had to make locational hit mods.
I am going back to bed, good luck with this, this is indeed a good mod concept, it is just that it cannot be done "right" with the tools available at this time. But you only need to get it to "feel right" in YOUR game, that is what is important for you if you are going to make the mod.
Spooky, you are of course correct in saying that no 'armor wearing skill' was taught in reality (but then this is a game, and an rpg - realism is going to limited by definition here). Though it did take training to fight in something like full plate (just the very limited field of vision would require getting used to), it was not a major area that needed extensive training (unlike say archery, which was often taught from childhood) and it did not follow patterns gamers expect - so for example, chainmail was often far more cumbersome to fight in than full plate (nor was chainmail a 'light' armor !!), and knights in full plate certainly werent the cumbersome, slow beasts we gamers expect. It may well be a misconception that gamers hold, but i certainly do not want to keep 'armor skills' relevant for that reason - you have to remember that, ultimately, this is just a game, and i want to make some compromises to keep it as such. I dont want a fully 'realistic' (as if it were possible) portrayal of medieval combat (mount and blade and numerous other games can do that) combat that is frustrating or does not fit the game. What i want is rebalance, and broadening, of the mechanisms behind this area of the game to be a bit more rewarding, interesting and to give players choices other than about what cosmetic effect they would like to wear.
Also, having daedric armor on level 1 players give the same AR as on a high level character (something like 75, 25/100 damage going through) would probably totally mess up the game's balance (and frankly that overrides any realism consideration). Its just pragmatic choice vs ideal vision.
If we had the power to make deep changes, we could explore many of the ideas we have brainstormed here - wood vs steel shields and fire/heavy blows etc. But at the moment, focussing on a few simple but interesting ideas is probably a better place to start
