I don't think it's a cultural thing - it's really a respect thing. I don't know if you are a modder or create anything. But if you put yourself in the shoe/perspective of the modder, I think you will understand fully just how it feels.

Personally, lets say I draw comic books. I made one that looks very promising and people really want to read it but it's not in English. Then someone without permission goes around telling people that he is translating it now. As the original author, I will assume that he is going to release it when he is done that is why he is telling other people. And I will feel disrespected that he didn't even ask for my permission OR at least let me know about it. If this really happens - my first reaction is gonna be WTF? It's really a respect thing. No matter if it's a mod or anything else - trying to release someone else's work in another language without permission is just disrespectful for the original creator.

LordKain created Adash.
Lady Li created the Egg Translator.
Walker started using the Translator for Adash.
He did not ask permission to translate Adash.
LordKain felt offended.
A lukewarm argument half-flourished about respect and author rights.

I personally wanted to play Adash since its release.
But I do not speak german well enough as to jump into a complex quests without knowing what am I told to do.

My question as end-user is:
Do LordKain grant permission for translation of Adash or wants it to remain mod for German-speaking players exclusively?
To be?
Or not to be?

Moral of the story? Ask first!
Second moral? Don't be so serious! Technically, all your base are belong to Bethesda.

Translation = LOVE!!!!

Sorry. In my previous experience most modders didn't care if someone else wants to translate their work, but it's obvious that opinions have changed. Are you planning on doing a translation on your own, or can I release mine when it's done? If you say no, that's fine; I won't be offended. I did want to ask you about a coded scroll, though...

To all the rest of you: You could just use the Egg Translator to do it yourselves...


No, it's text only. I seriously doubt you'll find an entire team to translate all the voice acting. Did you see how many people the Adash crew has?? Someone upthread brought up a good point - you're in a foreign land. Why not pretend the people actually speak a different language, and you have some device that lets you understand it?

Respect IS a cultural thing.

Asking before changing something to a mod seems to me like normal. If not, anyone can do anything with the work of anybody. But here, Walker, said he was translating it, he didn't released it. So nothing was done wrong. Maybe if he asks permission, will it be granted to him, who knows...

Otherwise, people will have to wait before the official translation, or will have to translate it by themselves for themselves (like i do, anyway, no one would use it, it's totally pathetic, but that's fine for me)

Does anybody remember the trouble Sinblood had a view weeks ago? A russian member took parts of his mods and told everybody, it was his own work. This is not so far away from the actual case. I am from Germany, too. Whenever I want to use something for a mod of mine, I'll ask for permission first... This is a respect thing. But finally the creator of a mod has to decide, if other members may work with it or not.
And - by the way - the mod translator was created by tecra59. The Egg-Translator is just an improvement.

You know people - I think I misrepresented my question earlier - of course respect is a cultural thing and everyone wants it. No duh.

What I meant was each culture might have different interpretations of that word/concept. I do not support stealing mods or ideas or releasing without permission, but I never got that Walker was trying to release without permission just announcing that he was working on a translation. Really it was not even this mod authors reaction that caught my eye.

Maybe I'm wrong maybe he did announce he was going to release a translation, but I didn't see that and what I thought I saw was the authors saying no you cannot even translate.

Blade or Mercy is right though - not a reason for drama. Minor issue.

I was thinking more like - perhaps Germans are more particular about how their language is translated than North Americans are. Compounded by other factors such as vague translation comments in the readme, the readme itself being in a foreign language, or the authors refusing to acknowledge that a mod even needs translating.

I think it's easy to assume that Walker planned on releasing it after he's done otherwise he wouldn't be telling others that he's translating it. Especially when he's replying to other people who are asking for a translation. It's just logical.

I'm sure LordKain wouldn't have a problem with people translating it for personal use since nobody will ever find out anyway.

I suppose now - either LordKain grants Walker the permission, we translate it ourselves for personal use, or we wait for LordKain to do an official translation. The End!

As soon as this gets translated...it is going to be like BRING ON THE GIRLS!!!!!

To be honest – it’s an “old world” thingy (even in Asia - omg - that is a story for itself) or you are more special/”open minded” on that – I bet you...chances are 50/50 if going through London and ask someone, that you are searching for Buckingham palace, he will tell you first – that you are looking for it.

Buuuuut - I really don’t believe that this is an issue here… if you take LK’s words with a German understanding it is like he said: It is really awesome and I appreciate your interest and thank you for your effort you already have taken – but I am really unsure if a Google translated version does the mod (and time and love what flew into that) service instead doing it right.*
And I would have really liked it if you just asked in advance, because of everything mentioned above (because I really took so much into it), and because now I am in a position of either being an (curse word here) by telling you “no” or go with it and maybe be unhappy with the results and later we do all over again.

*because – that is a really typical German cultural thing: Improvisation means lack of knowledge and lack of knowledge means loss of quality. – If you ever wonder why Germans are always so “well organized” or “technical” now you know why.

And if you ever wondered why some Germans always need so much words in English – because they can say this in one sentence and three dots in their language (read above) and mean the same thing.

And yes – there is a different level of politeness (incl. respect) between US and Germany – what does not mean the other culture is more rude – it is just a different understanding of behaviourisms. – If you ever encountered that Germans seem to be not so outgoing, silent or “holding back” – that is a showing respect to somebody/something for them, for example – and one of the most misunderstood issues – even the roman – empire had problems with that.
Other way around – I could ask you some things what would be normal in German but you could consider them as an American as very unpolite. Or look how you write on English boards always the full nick (this is really respectful) – on German boards – that does not matter – I am happy that they don’t call me already “that guy” or “t.g.” if replying…
BtR (means - back to the present – that’s the latest i-net short-word – I – just made up):
LK (means LordKain – a shortcut t I don’t made up) was extremely polite by the words he used and how he portrait his point of view – he could have used diff. ways. So I do not think that it's an “uber-protective” reaction like some seem to indicate...
Next to - there were some major issues concerning English mods translated, used or re-released in the German community during the last years. You don’t want to know the whole story, trust me – Let say – there is a general kind of alertness – despite WalkerinShadows best intentions what I highly trust in are out of any doubts for anyone. I think what you are try to do there is awesome, by the way, Walker.

So 1,2,3, 4 things are coming together here… but there is no general problem with translations because of cultural differences. Tadaa!

And now I do something really typical German what I never saw that way on English boards but serves our little thoughts about this topic – but its quite usual on German boards (no joke):
Please excuse me Lord Kain for have entered your thread and have talked on your behalf.

See,- some differences in words and cultures… lottsa funny stuff on that planet - let's talk about Mercury!

Tee-Cee
That Guy

P.S. by the way – if nobody has noticed - the Icelanders have not so polite attacked Europe with seismic weapons and we are now abandoned from the rest of the world and live all over here in dark-deep-bunkers. They have already taken the Finnish air-force down and the Swiss air-force doesn’t get their plane to work. HALP! If North Americans would be so polite to do something about it – you can do this (every person counts) by the following way: Just pack a lil box, with a bottle of soda and some cans of vegetables (peas and beans are appreciated) – (oh! maybe a Garfield comic-book, too – folks love that over here -pls make sure you all don’t send the same one) and just drop it into the Atlantic ocean? Nature would do the rest then…. Thank you very much and feel blessed then!

P.P.S @arynn – “and by the way…” <- lol Sorry… I feel with you.

P.P.P.S. @Boardadmins/technical staff- AWESOME Boardstyle - and technical improvement... you can feel the love what has gone into it... I just only post here to just have done it.

Just to clarify, that wasn't the case with OA. The modder was asked very politely by me for his permission in a translation that he would have been able to approve before release. He responded that the mod was perfectly fine as-is, didn't require a translation, and then took the additional time to put up an announcement on TES Nexus that absolutely forbade any translation of the mod.

Cultural issues didn't seem to be in play, in that instance. I will respect his...request, but obviously others are not so nice about such matters.

Honestly, I'm starting to agree with you. I'd say about half the time, it gets the translation right; the other half it ranges from "kind of close" to "WTF does this mean??". It's... interesting... trying to translate this. And yes, I have had to take liberties at times - that's why I wanted to get the opinion from the people who actually wrote it, to make sure I got things right. I am getting a rough grasp of German, though, which helps.


Again, apologies. If it were me, I wouldn't have minded so much, but obviously other people have different views. Like I said, I won't be offended if you refuse, since I overstepped my bounds. For the record, I think you and LordKain have been very polite about this. I was unaware of the reasons you stated (specifically precision in translation), but I completely understand. Next time, I'll know to ask first.


I was wondering why there were all those dots...


Thanks. From what I've seen so far, this mod looks fantastic - a deep backstory, intricate plot, and lots to see and do. There has obviously been a lot of time and effort put into it.


:rofl:

Keep on trans-latin!!!!