Ok, so after I did the kegstands, I decided to take a look at other meshes and wow, talk about terribleness. At that point I decided to start replacing things and wow talk about a difference in number of polys saved.

Essentially, not only have I saved polys over the other replacer, but I have made things look better. I put enough polys in to keep things looking nice while saving over Mesh Improvements.

Below is a list of things so far, not all the way complete(I list things as I am going so a spot is left blank until I fill it, I did leave a mesh unlisted) but it will give you and idea of just what is being gained and lost here. An estimation is at the bottom. I will be sure to have a complete list by the end with more exact numbers. Yes, I did put in the kegstands with this, but I am somewhat unsure if I will include them in this or leave them separate.

So far I have 6 models complete excluding the kegstands. I plan on releasing this once I get to 10 models totals, then I will update as necessary. This is basically going to be a straight mesh replacer.

This excludes bounding boxes which are usually no more then a couple dozen polys.
O=original, N=my new meshes, I=Mesh Improvements171
Furn_Com_Stool_02
O: 146 polys
N: 1640 polys
I: 4416 polys

furn_kegstands
O:492
N:1604
I:8952

furn_com_barstool
O:124
N:792
I:1412

furn_com_planter
O:208
N:1680(1640 without bottom)
I:4320

furn_com_cauldron_01
O:275
N:
I:7124

furn_com_cauldron_02
O:349
N:6248
I:9240

Furn_Com_Table_05
O:100
N:530
I:2336

Polys Saved and Gained
Gained from Original:(Mine minus original number of polys)
~10k (so I am adding about 10k polys to the original furnature)
Saved from Mesh Improvements:(mesh improvements minus my number of polys)
~27k

Yes, I am actually saving that many and making things look better. Appearently you can get 3 of my models in for close to the same processing power as one of the current replacer's.
I have heard that there is a 1 million poly limit per cell in MW so this is definitly a good thing, although I anticipate that limit will grow once the OpenMW team gets 1.0 out.

Heres a couple screens of stuff so far:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22081676/furn_com_stool_02%20old.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22081676/furn_com_stool_02.jpg
You will notice a difference in the stools here, the original didnt come with any sort of coloring in ambiant or diffuse lighting, I fixed that by making the coloring slightly brown. Makes it look better I think.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22081676/furn_com_table_03.jpg

A more comprehensive number of pictures is needed, but you can get some idea from this. While I do want to put a couple shots showing the difference between Mesh Improvements and this, I am not out to get that mod despite appearances, I just want people to use whats best. I am making this to be the last replacer anyone may need for a while(for the models I do at least). Everything looks smooth at the normal distance you would see it from, until you get very close to the meshes anyway.
How am I doing this? Well, essentially using the original models as a guide(so I can also get as close to the original size as possible and make them look as close to the same as possible), I am remaking them from scratch and redoing UV maps and everything, essentially making these my models that I can do with whatever I feel like with. This also means that progress is slower then simply shoving things into a program and hitting subdivide a few times. Finally, I hope other people might think about replacing a few things like I am doing.

Nice to see that someone else is working on a replacer for improved meshes. I'd informed the author of Mesh improvements about the UV mapping problems with a bunch of stuff, but he basically said he had no intentions of fixing them because he hates dealing with UV maps...I'll certainly be happy to see those problems fixed. If you haven't thought of it already the tops of the barrels, buckets, and similar items could all have flat edges around the top instead of round or pointed edges.

this sounds great!

You have certainly made a difference - I wonder though if you have not made them a little too perfect - that table looks like it might have come out of a sims game it is almost factory perfect - I'm all for improved meshes however I do think there is a certain rough hewn feel to some of the original meshes - they are lumpy and bumpy but to me that gives them a more old organic feel - is there anyway you can introduce some imperfections into the meshes so they seem a bit more worn?

Yes, I was going to do that with a few of the meshes. Those ones made out of fine looking wood however, I would expect to look nice. So far, save for that one stool, I havent gotten to the furnature that looks like it was made by amatuers.

The problem with trying to enhance the colour of a texture via mesh settings is that it may look ok when a particular texture is used but the brown tinge you have added to the mesh will probably look bad for anyone using say a lightwood texture or anything other than a brown wood texture.

Looks great. Don't look too much on number of polygons for interior objects though, most people have 100 FPS+ in interiors anyways (i think i remember seeing 250 FPS when i measured the last time in an interior cell). But for ojects that might be used in exterior cells it's good if its optimized polygon wise too

I too think that some meshes should remain a bit raw.
Like the stool for example. Such a simple object for everyday use. Making it to refined, and its bound to loose its country-ish charm.
Just my 2 cents.

I Haven't read exactly ALL of your post, but....the stool, for example, now has 1640 polies?

When I said slightly brown, thats what I meant. The thing is colored a few shades of tan off of white, its just something to help color it a little, but isnt going to override other textures. Although, yes it does look like I reallywent at it with the brown, I am somewhat suprised that such a little color change made that big a difference.


Yes, I beleive I explain this in my post.


And yes I hear about the look, I am not going to make all the meshes perfect or anything. In fact most of the furn_de set is supposed to have a rugged look to it and I will be giving it that.

It looks like you've made the objects less octogonal and more curved and smooth. Would you be able to do this with the Better Bodies models?

If he got permission, it's segmented, weighted to a skeleton, and it's a character model too, so it'd be a lot tougher to work with.
Plus incompatabilities would be a given with skin-tight meshes, so it might be better to convert an oblivion body mesh, as Bahamut attempted to do a while back.

Yeah I get it that you do, it's just that I'm confused about "Optimization" in your title.... that's absolutely WAY too much for a little stool, number around 1000 is like the upper limit for a head mesh.

I have no plans on doing bodies, at least not that I see in the near future at the moment. Plus, the better bodies look fine to me for now, they may not be revolutionary or anything, but at least they look smooth enough. The other thing is I really would have no idea where to start with them. I may know alot of stuff, but I know nothing about boning bodies and all that stuff at this point in time. I would have to learn how to do it all. Not that it would be hard or anything, before Feburary, I knew nothing of making models for MW and the wayshrine was the first one I did.

Ninjed

Oh that, well its not optimized as in less polys from the original mesh, its impossible to us any less vertices/polys. What I mean by optimization is that I am using less then current replacers as with current ones, people just put the models into a program and do subdivide and all that, not really trying to save on anything. I on the other hand am making them from scratch trying to save polys where I can while making them look good.

Get it. I suggesto not to overdo it so much tho, cause 1000+ polies for a stool is really an overkill.

Good luck with the project.

Tell that to the guy who used 4x that previously. haha People have used these without many problems for a while now; I doubt 1000 is overkill when you have room to do it.

I'm actually working on a smoother male body right now. Partly for the hell of it, and to learn some Blender, and because the BB shapes are pretty ugly in parts, but partly to see if it can be done while minimizing clothing conflicts, since as Dirnae pointed out that's the major issue with any body replacer. It's definitely more than just a "subdivided" BB mesh, it's very thoroughly improved while hopefully keeping within the BB envelope.

It's looking very good in Blender, still tweaking and trying to fix the UV map, but getting it out and back into NifSkope with a skeleton may be tough. I haven't mentioned it here since it's more of an advlt mod, but there's a thread on it on Wolflore. If it's got clothing issues, then I'll probably just keep it for myself, or make it available as a resource for advlt mods where clothes are less of a problem.

I agree with you :wink_smile:

Keep up the good works! :foodndrink:

Great, I'll pop over to wolflore and post my thoughts in that thread.

About a 1k poly stool, there's no need to fix problems which don't exist I guess, but at the same time I actually kinda prefer the look of some lower poly stuff.
Excessively smoothed objects can look so out of place imo, but there's obviously a 'market' for it and I'm probably in the minority, so ignore me.

If you add a little imperfection to your models, like not quite so perfectly smoothed edges or dents and cuts I think they would be more in keeping with that Morrowind feel. That said a lot of objects could do with a smoother look, some crockery and glass even some structures and plants. And if you fix the UV maps, then all the better as almost all of them from the vanilla game are rubbish.

I look forward to seeing what you can get accomplished.

I personally think that the rounded edges give it more of a country look than not. As long as there are no hearts cut into it. That is just too much country for me. Furniture makers of old paid a great deal of attention to their craft, and I suspect the people of Tamriel are no different. The stool and table are part of the furn_com set, so it looks fine to me. The furn_de set might not seem correct if it were too smooth, but that has already been addressed here.

Edit:


I think little signs of wear like scratches and dents would probably be better left to the texture. Modelling that would add a lot of faces.

This. That is exactly what I am thinking, old craftsmen paid alot of attention to their craft and wanted to make things they could be proud of so having things made out of fine wood be nice and smooth isnt much of a stretch.

Yes, and like I said before, the de set is made to look like its rough and wouldnt look right if it wasnt.

I agree that for the most part, signs of wear would/should be mostly texture based. Trying to add details like that would boost the poly number by a large amount. The only time you should do details like that with a mesh is if its the overall shape.