Hey, I've mostly gotten my Morrowind working, but I still seem to get a lot of crashing when moving between towns often. I've run everything through Wyre Mash, made a leveled list merged plugin with Leveled List merger, and checked everything in Mlox for load order. I'm using the Morrowind overhaul as a base and that works fine. Most of my crashing seems to happen when fast traveling or mark/recalling etc from town to town. I've also noticed that my quicksaves will crash on load every once in awhile, forcing me to go back to a backup or autosave. Just in case I've been making plenty of backups because of instability. I'm thinking it may be linked to Morrowind Comes Alive, as it was a bit more stable without it, but for all I know it may be something else. Any suggestions?

Load order (from Mlox):
_001_ Morrowind.esm
_002_ Tribunal.esm
_003_ Bloodmoon.esm
_004_ Texture Fix - Bloodmoon 1.1.esm
_005_ Texture Fix 1.8.esm
_006_ Morrowind Patch 1.6.5 Beta (BTB Edit).esm
_007_ Morrowind Advanced.esm
_008_ MCA.esm
_009_ Dread.esp
_010_ Passive_Healthy_Wildlife.esp
_011_ LGNPC_NoLore_v0_83.esp
_012_ Thief Experience Overhaul 1.3b (Tribunal) (Combined).esp
_013_ CM_Assassin_10.esp
_014_ Lgnpc_SN.esp
_015_ LGNPC_GnaarMok_v1_20.esp
_016_ LGNPC_AldVelothi_v1_20.esp
_017_ WA_Signy_Signposts(!).ESP
_018_ New Veloth's Judgement 2.esp
_019_ P.R.E. v4.0.esp
_020_ BetterClothesForTB.esp
_021_ LGNPC_MaarGan_v1_20.esp
_022_ LGNPC_HlaOad_v1_32.esp
_023_ MWE_Base.esp
_024_ MW_Adv_Required.esp
_025_ MW_Adv_PHW.esp
_026_ UAR_ChodalaBoots.esp
_027_ Windows Glow.esp
_028_ LGNPC_Aldruhn_v1_20.esp
_029_ Nymeria's Faster Walk.esp
_030_ LGNPC_Aldruhn_v1_20_suppl.esp
_031_ LGNPC_Pelagiad_v1_30.esp
_032_ LGNPC_TelMora_v1_20.esp
_033_ abotWindowsGlow.esp
_034_ Barabus' fireplaces 2.esp
_035_ Vampire Realism II.esp
_036_ Vampire Realism II - TB Add-On.esp
_037_ Vampire Realism II - BM Add-On.esp
_038_ LGNPC_Khuul_v2_20.esp
_039_ LGNPC_VivecFQ_v2_10.esp
_040_ LGNPC_TelUvirith_v1_20.esp
_041_ LGNPC_SecretMasters_v1_30.esp
_042_ LGNPC_IndarysManor_v1_51.esp
_043_ MWE_Combat.esp
_044_ ACE_Subtitles.esp
_045_ Better Skulls.ESP
_046_ A_flock_of_seagulls.esp
_047_ Lilarcor_v4-1.esp
_048_ PSsorticon.esp
_049_ Nymeria's Monthly Respawn.esp
_050_ Particle Arrow Replacer.esp
_051_ LGNPC_VivecRedoran_v1_50.esp
_052_ Less_Generic_Nerevarine.esp
_053_ LGNPC_PaxRedoran_v1_20.esp
_054_ LGNPC_SoulSicknessPatch_v1_00.esp
_055_ Water Level Fix - Full.esp
_056_ Psy_IronMeshImprove_Uniques_BME.esp
_057_ Unique Tombs.esp
_058_ Ebonheart Fix.ESP
_059_ TLM - Ambient Light + Fog Update.esp
_060_ TLM - Light Sources (Clearer Lighting).esp
_061_ Balmora Un-Mod.esp
_062_ SirLuthor-Tools.esp
_063_ Unique Banners and Signs.esp
_064_ Key Replacer Trib & BM.esp
_065_ Statue Replacer - Normal.esp
_066_ bones.esp
_067_ Shieldfx.esp
_068_ OR_Fang.esp
_069_ Book Jackets - Morrowind.esp
_070_ Book Jackets - Tribunal.esp
_071_ Less_Generic_Bloodmoon.esp
_072_ Book Jackets - Bloodmoon.esp
_073_ Expanded Sounds.esp
_074_ Vality's Ascadian Isles Addon.esp
_075_ Better Clothes_v1.1.esp
_076_ NewBlood_MwTbBm1.1.esp
_077_ Westly's Master Headpack X.esp
_078_ Neo's Unique Creatures.esp
_079_ correctUV Ore Replacer 1.0.esp
_080_ Vality's Bitter Coast Addon.esp
_081_ Vality's Balmora Addon.esp
_082_ Bloated Caves.esp
_083_ Graphic Herbalism.esp
_084_ Graphic Herbalism Extra.esp
_085_ GH_ES1.3 Patch.esp
_086_ GH_Extra_ES1.3 Patch.esp
_087_ almalexia armor.esp
_088_ ExcellentMagicSounds.esp
_089_ More Better Clothes.ESP
_090_ bcsounds.esp
_091_ New Argonian Bodies - Clean.esp
_092_ New Khajiit Bodies - Clean.esp
_093_ Golden Gold.esp
_094_ Animated Soulgems.esp
_095_ GCD v1.08 with Startscript, fixed [Galsiah].esp
_096_ Less_Generic_Tribunal.esp
_097_ Windows Glow - Tribunal Eng.esp
_098_ Windows Glow - Bloodmoon Eng.esp
_099_ BTB - Spells.esp
_100_ BTB - Alchemy.esp
_101_ SNR_ThievesStep_Standart.esp
_102_ The Imperial Legion Badge.esp
_103_ Windows Glow - Raven Rock Eng.esp
_104_ BTB - Equipment.esp
_105_ BTB - Settings (Alternate).esp
_106_ Keyring.esp
_107_ Better Clothes Complete (BTB Edit).esp
_108_ DM_DB Armor Replacer-Exp (BTB Edit).esp
_109_ DA_Complete.esp
_110_ Unique Jewelry and Accessories.esp
_111_ Vurt's Grazelands Trees Bushy.esp
_112_ TLM - Light Sources (Lanterns).esp
_113_ TLM - External Lights Ownership.esp
_114_ guarskin_drum_replacer.esp
_115_ Animated Morrowind.esp
_116_ New Voices.esp
_117_ MCA - Vampire Realism Patch.esp
_118_ MCA - Guards Patch.ESP
_119_ Vurt's Ashlands Overhaul.esp
_120_ Sleepers, Awake!.esp
_121_ Vurt's Grazelands Trees.esp
_122_ Vurt's BC Tree Replacer II.esp
_123_ LeftGloves_Addon_v2.esp
_124_ UniqueFinery.esp
_125_ Area Effect Projectiles (PAR Edit).esp
_126_ MCA Names 6.1.ESP
*128* master_list.esp
_127_ NoM 3.0.esp

My first suggestion would be to use Mash's Leveled list function (Mashed list.esp). It is far more reliable than leveled list merger.

Your saved game corruption is likely due to MWE. It's notorious for messing up saves.

What warnings are you getting, if any, in warnings.txt?






KF

My warnings log is this:

One of the files that "Dread.esp" is dependent on has changed since the last save.
This may result in errors. Saving again will clear this message
but not necessarily fix any errors.
One of the files that "Passive_Healthy_Wildlife.esp" is dependent on has changed since the last save.
This may result in errors. Saving again will clear this message
but not necessarily fix any errors.
One of the files that "Thief Experience Overhaul 1.3b (Tribunal) (Combined).esp" is dependent on has changed since the last save.
This may result in errors. Saving again will clear this message
but not necessarily fix any errors.
One of the files that "CM_Assassin_10.esp" is dependent on has changed since the last save.
This may result in errors. Saving again will clear this message
but not necessarily fix any errors.
One of the files that "MCA Names 6.1.ESP" is dependent on has changed since the last save.
This may result in errors. Saving again will clear this message
but not necessarily fix any errors.
One or more plugins could not find the correct versions of the master files they depend on. Errors may occur during load or game play. Check the "Warnings.txt" file for more information.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_4.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_4.
Not able to find Knee part in BC_extravagant_pants_02_Mk.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_03.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_1.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_2.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_5.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_5.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_1.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_1.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_5.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_5.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_5.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_4.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_extrav_2_f.
Not able to find Knee part in BC_extravagant_pants_02_Mk.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_exquisite_1_f.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_5.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_5.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_03.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_extrav_2_f.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_extrav_1_f.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_5.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_1.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_2.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_4.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_1.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_4.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_03.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_5.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_expensive_2.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_1.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_expensive_2.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_2.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_5.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_5.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_03.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_2.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_2.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_4.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_2.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_4.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_4.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_2.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_2.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_5.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_5.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_5.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_5.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_expensive_03.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_2.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_1.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_4.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_2.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_03.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_4.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_4.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_expensive_03.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_expensive_03.

I think I'm in Balmora at the time. So you think dumping MWE and Combat Enhanced will help? I'm not noticing a huge difference with it on anyway. But last time I tried to take it off I must've missed something cause it'd just crash on startup then.

I don't remember where I read this, but I heard that quicksave in Morrowind is always bad, regardless of patches. The reason given was that when you press ESC to go to the menu and save, it would stop all scripts. However, quicksave doesn't stop scripts, so you might end up with a save that is half way through a script, and that could cause troubles. Also, don't save outdoors if you use MGE (or XE). Reason: the save file doesn't store the distant land generated. MGE works better if you start in an interior before ever having to display distant LODs.

So I should just be saving normally, and indoors if at all possible? I removed MWE, Combat enhanced, and the ACE combat messages, hopefully everything will still run... Morrowind Enhanced is a pain anyway.

Dropping MWE and the mods that use it is a good idea IMHO. You should see a lot less problems with your saves. Be sure to clean your save with Mash and you shouldn't have any trouble with removing it.

All the errors in your warnings.txt are normal and harmless. The "the files that xxx depends on have changed" errors are easy to fix with Mash. The BC_* errors are completely harmless and can be totally ignored.

Edit: I gotta learn to type faster. :ph34r:


KF

Well, took those mods off without any issues. Still getting a lot of crashing in Balmora though, with no real error messages or anything. Could it be MCA?

I can't be 100% certain, but I doubt MCA is causing your problem. I've been running it for years and the only issue I've had is the "drunk crash" which I believe was fixed in the new version.

Are you running MWSE? If so, which version? The reason I ask is you're running keyring.esp, which requires it.




KF

Actually I think that has been fixed now.

I would assume MCP? Are you sure, because this would save me some trouble.

I think I have the latest MWSE, got it http://sourceforge.net/projects/mwse/. I'm used to a certain degree of inexplicable crashes in Bethesda games, but it's a little over my threshold to feel "safe" while playing. I don't think I have the latest Morrowind Code Patch, I used the one in the Morrowind Overhaul, don't think that's the 2.0 beta. Should I upgrade that?

Yep, MCP fixes the quicksave feature.

I still wouldn't rely on them exclusively though. I haven't had much of a problem with them at all. I usually use quicksaves while playing a session, but I always make a regular save after completing major quests or when ending a session.

Edit: Ninja'd again. I've always been leery of using beta versions in my main game. I'd say stick to 1.9 unless you have a mod that requires 2.0.




KF

Is there any other information I could provide that'd help? Any info I can get from wyre mash or something? It's probably one thing acting up that I keep overlooking.

You could go go through and remove mods one at a time, checking performance each time, then putting the mod back and removing another one, until you find the one that is causing the problem. Although it will be a long, tedious process, it will tell you for sure which one is causing the problem. There are a few mods in your load list that I don't recognize, so I can't be sure, but I'd start with Balmora un-mod since your trouble is in balmora. You could go through all the mods that effect balmora first to cut down on the list. If you are still worried that it's MCA that causes the problem, remove it and see what happens. If it still crashes a lot, it's probably not MCA.





KF

If you haven't, I would suggest patching both your MGE.exe, morrowind.exe, and morrowind launcher.exe with the 4gb patch, it could very well just be a memory issue, it won't solve your crashing, but it can significantly reduce it.

I've actually got Windows 7 32bit, and I think you need 64bit to use the 4GB patcher, right?

I know that there is a way to allow a 32bit OS to allow for large adress aware programs to access more than 2gb, but to be completely honest, I have no idea on how to go about doing it, so for arguments sake, I'll just say, you are correct sir! Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Saving/quicksaving often can reduce crashes for sure, I tried it

Hmm, I'll look into it when I get home. I have 4GB of RAM, so that'd help if I could patch it.

I believe that a 32 bit system can't address more than 2gb of memory. While you can have more than 2gb available, the system can only address 2gb at one time. The advantage of having more than 2gb is that you can have multiple programs running at the same time without having to use page files or virtual memory written to disk. The exception to this is if your system utilizes standard ram for video memory, making 4, 6, or even 8gb of ram useful. The 4gb patch is intended to allow 32 bit programs to act like they are 64 bit programs on a 64 bit system. I don't think you'll need the 4gb patch unless you are using a 64 bit OS.




KF

No, this isn't technically true. 32 bits (on the memory address lanes as well as in the CPU registers) allows for 4GB of addressable memory by the system. However each 32-bit application is limited to 2GB of virtual memory for its own use. (This is different from the issue where with 4GB installed RAM a 32-bit OS can only use just over 3GB, as the rest is occupied by device drivers, memory-mapped IO etc..)

On the http://www.ntcore.com/4gb_patch.php it's clearly explained as a way to make a 32-bit application running on 64-bit Windows be able to access all of the 4GB of virtual memory that it is capable of addressing, since the system itself is not now limited to 4GB.

Ah, thanks IanB2.

It's been a long time since I was a repair tech and I haven't kept up. When I was working in the computer field they were still 8 bit. Our ram was measured in mb not gb, and a 66mhz was considered fast.




KF

Things seem a little more stable. One thing I realized was that I'd forgotten to run MWSE, lol. I'm still getting crashes, but they're a little more uncommon. I'm also trying to not quicksave spam or anything in large cities like Balmora. I'll do hard saves before/after quests, transport, etc, then quicksave in between.

One thing that might help is using MGE's macro editor to automate quicksaving. Then just don't use them Use the "proper" save process and only load those. I've set this up and it seems to help. Think I got the tip from John Moonsugar :unsure:

[*]Launch macro editor [*] Under the drop down box labeled "macro type" select 1, 2, 3 or 4 [*] Under function, enter the number of seconds you would like between each autosave (I use 300)[*] On the keyboard display select F5 so that it turns green [*] Check the box labeled "trigger enable"[*] Press "save"You may also define keys to start or stop the autosave trigger from continuing.[*] Select any unused key on the keyboard display so it turns green [*] From the drop down box labelled "unused" change to "start trigger' or "end trigger" [*] Select the corresponding trigger from the drop down box labelled "macro type" that you defined before (I.E., 1, 2, 3 or 4) [*] Press "save"

There's also Timeslip's http://timeslip.users.sourceforge.net/exeopt.html, which seemed to help my CTDs as well. Apply after the MCP.

BTW, anyway of disabling the needless prettification of [CODE] tags?