Crash at startup with FOOK2/WMK/MMM : Fallout 3

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:50 pm

I haven't played FO3 for a while now (maybe a year and a half or so), but wanted to get back into it and use some of the better mods out there. I've used FOOK and MMM before, but can't seem to get them working this time. I've got all 5 DLCs loaded as well (since FOOK2 seems to require that if you want to use any of them). I'm using the FOSE launcher to start the game. It just crashes at the "Stand By" screen, every time.

I used ArchiveInvalidation Invalidated!, and toggled it on and off again in FOMM after I had everything installed. Created the merged patch with FO3Edit and made sure it was being loaded last.

Here's my load order. Anyone have any idea what I'm doing wrong?

Spoiler

Fallout3.esm
Anchorage.esm
ThePitt.esm
BrokenSteel.esm
PointLookout.esm
Zeta.esm
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esm
CALIBR.esm
FOOK2 - Main.esm
FOOK2 - [[censored]] World And Neighbourhood Kit.esm
FOOK2 - [DIK] DLC Improvement Kit.esm
Mart's Mutant Mod.esm
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Operation Anchorage.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - The Pitt.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Broken Steel.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Point Lookout.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Mothership Zeta.esp
DarNifiedUIF3.esp
FOOK2 - Main.esp
FOOK2 - [EVE] Energy Visuals Enhanced.esp
FOOK2 Main [Hotfix].esp
FOOK2 DIK [Hotfix].esp
FOOK2 - [DIK] DLC Improvement Kit.esp
FOOK2 - Mothership Zeta.esp
MyFOOK2 - Black & White Tranquility Lane.esp
WeaponModKits.esp
WeaponModKits - OperationAnchorage.esp
WeaponModKits - ThePitt.esp
WeaponModKits - BrokenSteel.esp
WeaponModKits - PointLookout.esp
WeaponModKits - Zeta.esp
WeaponModKits - FOOK.esp
WeaponModKits - Scope Increases VATS Accuracy.esp
Alternate Start - Roleplayers.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Zeta.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Hunting & Looting.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Natural Selection.esp
WeaponModKits-Unique.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Tougher Traders.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Zones Respawn.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2 - DIK.esp
MissingUniqueWeapons-Enhanced-BS+PL.esp
Merged Patch.esp

Total active plugins: 49
Total plugins: 62

» Tue May 17, 2011 12:57 pm

I think you are missing CRAFT.

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:40 pm

Also, it's highly recommended to update your FOOK to v1.1b2 which requires the removal of many plugins which you're currently loading. FOOK's EVE and W4NK plugins, for instance, have since been merged into the main file. If those hotfix plugins are recent, they're not made to work with the v1.0 setup which appears to be installed. If you do update, be sure to discard/rebuild your merged patch or it'll CTD.

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:49 am

Also, it's highly recommended to update your FOOK to v1.1b2 which requires the removal of many plugins which you're currently loading. FOOK's EVE and W4NK plugins, for instance, have since been merged into the main file. If those hotfix plugins are recent, they're not made to work with the v1.0 setup which appears to be installed. If you do update, be sure to discard/rebuild your merged patch or it'll CTD.

Ok, that's where I think I was getting confused. I did install the 1.1 b2 files and the latest hotfixes, but I couldn't get to the installation instructions page for 1.1 b2 since the FookUnity site has been down, so I didn't realize I needed to remove those plugins. I'll try that now.

I didn't see any mention of any of the mods I'm using requiring CRAFT either, but I went ahead and added it now just in case. I'm still getting the same CTD though. And yes, I did delete and recreate my merged patch

Here's my new load order:

Spoiler

Fallout3.esm
CRAFT.esm
Anchorage.esm
ThePitt.esm
BrokenSteel.esm
PointLookout.esm
Zeta.esm
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esm
CALIBR.esm
FOOK2 - Main.esm
FOOK2 - [DIK] DLC Improvement Kit.esm
Mart's Mutant Mod.esm
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Operation Anchorage.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - The Pitt.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Broken Steel.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Point Lookout.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Mothership Zeta.esp
CRAFT - Activation Perk.esp
DarNifiedUIF3.esp
FOOK2 - Main.esp
FOOK2 Main [Hotfix].esp
FOOK2 DIK [Hotfix].esp
FOOK2 - [DIK] DLC Improvement Kit.esp
FOOK2 - Mothership Zeta.esp
MyFOOK2 - Black & White Tranquility Lane.esp
WeaponModKits.esp
WeaponModKits - OperationAnchorage.esp
WeaponModKits - ThePitt.esp
WeaponModKits - BrokenSteel.esp
WeaponModKits - PointLookout.esp
WeaponModKits - Zeta.esp
WeaponModKits - FOOK.esp
WeaponModKits - Scope Increases VATS Accuracy.esp
Alternate Start - Roleplayers.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Zeta.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Hunting & Looting.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Natural Selection.esp
WeaponModKits-Unique.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Tougher Traders.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Zones Respawn.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2 - DIK.esp
MissingUniqueWeapons-Enhanced-BS+PL.esp
Merged Patch.esp

Total active plugins: 49
Total plugins: 65

» Tue May 17, 2011 1:52 am

Ok, that's where I think I was getting confused. I did install the 1.1 b2 files and the latest hotfixes, but I couldn't get to the installation instructions page for 1.1 b2 since the FookUnity site has been down, so I didn't realize I needed to remove those plugins. I'll try that now.

I didn't see any mention of any of the mods I'm using requiring CRAFT either, but I went ahead and added it now just in case. I'm still getting the same CTD though. And yes, I did delete and recreate my merged patch

Here's my new load order:

Yeah, FOOK doesn't require CRAFT, but it won't conflict or anything and is inherently awesome. Check out the list below as it'll point out a few v1.0 plugins which must be removed.

Spoiler

Fallout3.esm
Anchorage.esm
ThePitt.esm
BrokenSteel.esm
PointLookout.esm
Zeta.esm
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esm
CRAFT.esm
CALIBR.esm
FOOK2 - Main.esm
FOOK2 - [DIK] DLC Improvement Kit.esm
Mart's Mutant Mod.esm
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Operation Anchorage.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - The Pitt.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Broken Steel.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Point Lookout.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Mothership Zeta.esp
CRAFT - Activation Perk.esp
DarNifiedUIF3.esp
FOOK2 - Main.esp
FOOK2 Main [Hotfix].esp
FOOK2 - [DIK] DLC Improvement Kit.esp
FOOK2 DIK [Hotfix].esp <=== Should load directly after DIK's esp
~~FOOK2 - Mothership Zeta.esp~~ <=== Merged into DIK
~~MyFOOK2 - Black & White Tranquility Lane.esp~~ <=== Scripted option available in FOOK menu
WeaponModKits.esp
WeaponModKits - OperationAnchorage.esp
WeaponModKits - ThePitt.esp
WeaponModKits - BrokenSteel.esp
WeaponModKits - PointLookout.esp
WeaponModKits - Zeta.esp
WeaponModKits - FOOK.esp
WeaponModKits - Scope Increases VATS Accuracy.esp
Alternate Start - Roleplayers.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Zeta.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Hunting & Looting.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Natural Selection.esp
WeaponModKits-Unique.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Tougher Traders.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Zones Respawn.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2 - DIK.esp
MissingUniqueWeapons-Enhanced-BS+PL.esp
Merged Patch.esp

Total active plugins: 49
Total plugins: 65

» Tue May 17, 2011 11:19 am

Yeah, FOOK doesn't require CRAFT, but it won't conflict or anything and is inherently awesome. Check out the list below as it'll point out a few v1.0 plugins which must be removed.

That helped a bit. Took a couple seconds longer than usual to crash anyway

Here's my fixed up list. Maybe there's still something wrong with it?

Spoiler

Fallout3.esm
CRAFT.esm
Anchorage.esm
ThePitt.esm
BrokenSteel.esm
PointLookout.esm
Zeta.esm
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esm
CALIBR.esm
FOOK2 - Main.esm
FOOK2 - [DIK] DLC Improvement Kit.esm
Mart's Mutant Mod.esm
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Operation Anchorage.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - The Pitt.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Broken Steel.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Point Lookout.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Mothership Zeta.esp
CRAFT - Activation Perk.esp
DarNifiedUIF3.esp
FOOK2 - Main.esp
FOOK2 Main [Hotfix].esp
FOOK2 - [DIK] DLC Improvement Kit.esp
FOOK2 DIK [Hotfix].esp
WeaponModKits.esp
WeaponModKits - OperationAnchorage.esp
WeaponModKits - ThePitt.esp
WeaponModKits - BrokenSteel.esp
WeaponModKits - PointLookout.esp
WeaponModKits - Zeta.esp
WeaponModKits - FOOK.esp
WeaponModKits - Scope Increases VATS Accuracy.esp
Alternate Start - Roleplayers.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Zeta.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Hunting & Looting.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Natural Selection.esp
WeaponModKits-Unique.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Tougher Traders.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Zones Respawn.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2 - DIK.esp
MissingUniqueWeapons-Enhanced-BS+PL.esp
Merged Patch.esp

Total active plugins: 47
Total plugins: 65

» Tue May 17, 2011 5:37 am

Had you rebuilt your merged patch? If it was built before removing plugins, it might be crashing over missing master(s). If that's not the case, open your load order with FO3Edit and check the right panel's "Messages" tab for warnings about any fatal errors which will be directly preceeded by the name of whatever's missing. For that matter, FO3Edit probably wouldn't even make a new merged patch if the plugins hadn't loaded all the way.

If it's not a missing master, try renaming/deleting Fallout.ini?

» Tue May 17, 2011 12:55 am

Had you rebuilt your merged patch? If it was built before removing plugins, it might be crashing over missing master(s). If that's not the case, open your load order with FO3Edit and check the right panel's "Messages" tab for warnings about any fatal errors which will be directly preceeded by the name of whatever's missing. For that matter, FO3Edit probably wouldn't even make a new merged patch if the plugins hadn't loaded all the way.

If it's not a missing master, try renaming/deleting Fallout.ini?

I rebuilt the merged patch after removing the plugins. I'm not getting any errors in FO3Edit. I was getting some several load orders back, but that was before I realized I needed ALL of the DLCs installed for FOOK2. I went back and added the missing ones (Point Lookout and Zeta) and then reinstalled the Unofficial Patch again to cover those, and added the additional plugins for them for WMK and MMM. That cleared up the errors.

I renamed Fallout.ini and it created a new one when I launched the game. Still got the CTD though.

» Tue May 17, 2011 5:03 am

I don't know then. Try loading just the vanilla game, then add FOOK stuff, then add MMM, then WMK, etc. until you crash and then you'll be able to figure out what doesn't want to load. :shrug:

» Tue May 17, 2011 12:49 am

I don't know then. Try loading just the vanilla game, then add FOOK stuff, then add MMM, then WMK, etc. until you crash and then you'll be able to figure out what doesn't want to load. :shrug:

Tried rolling back to just FOOK, but still get the crash. I'm going to wipe everything and start over. Quick question though. Is there still any issue with installing FO3 in the Program Files (x86) folder in Windows 7 x64? I've heard reports of issues in Vista, but nothing much about Win 7. Should I install it under c:\Games instead?

» Tue May 17, 2011 12:42 pm

Tried rolling back to just FOOK, but still get the crash. I'm going to wipe everything and start over. Quick question though. Is there still any issue with installing FO3 in the Program Files (x86) folder in Windows 7 x64? I've heard reports of issues in Vista, but nothing much about Win 7. Should I install it under c:\Games instead?

If you haven't disabled UAC, you could run into issues trying to put files in Program Files (x86). I just disable UAC because I find it annoying.

Once I went to the latest FOOK2 1.1 beta 2, I had considerably fewer crashes.

You may need to wait in game for 4 days, or whatever the time period is for cells to expire. That way you're not reloading the cached version of those cells from your previous save. It will load them fresh.

If you're running x64, you should also look into a RAM booster patch for the Fallout executable. I also highly recommend using CASM in place of the built-in Autosave (which is crash happy). You may also need Fallout.ini tweaks for multi-core support.

As for load order, I let FOMM set my load order, and I've never had problems with it.

» Tue May 17, 2011 6:50 am

Tried rolling back to just FOOK, but still get the crash. I'm going to wipe everything and start over. Quick question though. Is there still any issue with installing FO3 in the Program Files (x86) folder in Windows 7 x64? I've heard reports of issues in Vista, but nothing much about Win 7. Should I install it under c:\Games instead?

Ah. I'll bet UAC is part or all of the problem. C:\Games\Fallout 3 would probably work better, or you could disable UAC.

» Tue May 17, 2011 7:43 am

If you haven't disabled UAC, you could run into issues trying to put files in Program Files (x86). I just disable UAC because I find it annoying.

Once I went to the latest FOOK2 1.1 beta 2, I had considerably fewer crashes.

You may need to wait in game for 4 days, or whatever the time period is for cells to expire. That way you're not reloading the cached version of those cells from your previous save. It will load them fresh.

If you're running x64, you should also look into a RAM booster patch for the Fallout executable. I also highly recommend using CASM in place of the built-in Autosave (which is crash happy). You may also need Fallout.ini tweaks for multi-core support.

As for load order, I let FOMM set my load order, and I've never had problems with it.

Ok, I've installed it into c:\Games\Fallout 3 now. I haven't even started a game yet, so the caching isn't an issue. I hadn't heard about the RAM Boost thing, but I just did that as well. I've got CASM downloaded, but haven't installed it yet. Is there a source that explains the multi-core INI tweaks?

So far I've got the basic game + DLC and the Unofficial Patch installed, and it starts up and doesn't crash at the Stand By screen now. I was able to adjust settings and turn off the autosaves. I'm about to install FOOK2 again. We'll see how that goes...

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:49 pm

Anyone know what I'm supposed to do with the "fomod" folder that comes with MMM? There's no .fomod file in it, so I'm really not sure what, if anything, I'm supposed to do with the xsd and cs files and such that are in there.

So far so good though. Got FOOK2 installed and still no crash. Working on MMM now. Will need to start including FOIP stuff now too I think.

» Tue May 17, 2011 2:36 am

Ok, now after installing MMM and the necessary FOIP files ("Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2.esp" and "Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2 - DIK.esp"), I'm getting an error in FO3Edit when I try to create the merged patch:

[0103122A] [01031228] [0103122D] Found a REFR reference, expected: ALCH,AMMO,ARMO,BOOK,KEYM,LVLI,MISC,MSTT,NOTE,STAT,WEAPFound a REFR reference, expected: ALCH,AMMO,ARMO,BOOK,KEYM,LVLI,MISC,MSTT,NOTE,STAT,WEAPFound a REFR reference, expected: ALCH,AMMO,ARMO,BOOK,KEYM,LVLI,MISC,MSTT,NOTE,STAT,WEAP[0103122B]

It creates the merged patch anyway, so I'm not sure exactly what the issue is or how bad it is. Does it have anything to do with the MMM "fomod" folder stuff that I have no idea what to do with?

My current load order is this:

Spoiler

Fallout3.esm
Anchorage.esm
ThePitt.esm
BrokenSteel.esm
PointLookout.esm
Zeta.esm
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esm
CALIBR.esm
FOOK2 - Main.esm
FOOK2 - [DIK] DLC Improvement Kit.esm
Mart's Mutant Mod.esm
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Operation Anchorage.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - The Pitt.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Broken Steel.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Point Lookout.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Mothership Zeta.esp
FOOK2 - Main.esp
FOOK2 Main [Hotfix].esp
FOOK2 - [DIK] DLC Improvement Kit.esp
FOOK2 DIK [Hotfix].esp
Mart's Mutant Mod.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Zeta.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Hunting & Looting.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Natural Selection.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Tougher Traders.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Zones Respawn.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2 - DIK.esp

Total active plugins: 32
Total plugins: 33

» Tue May 17, 2011 3:54 am

Ok, I think I've got things all working now. I was able to start a new game with all the mods I had in my original post here. Looks good now. Thanks for the help guys!

» Tue May 17, 2011 9:51 am

You are having the same issue with me. I bet it was ArchiveInvalidation Invalidated. If I have mine set to activated, I crash instantly. If I deactivate it, then Fallout 3 launches fine. The problem is that we need this activated for mods to work!

» Tue May 17, 2011 3:17 am

You are having the same issue with me. I bet it was ArchiveInvalidation Invalidated. If I have mine set to activated, I crash instantly. If I deactivate it, then Fallout 3 launches fine. The problem is that we need this activated for mods to work!

No, I don't think that's the problem I had. Mine is much more embarrassing. I'm pretty sure now that I forgot to actually activate the fomod for DarnifiedUI, and that was what was causing my insta-crash. I'm running fine now mostly. I've had one lockup when I was getting shot at rather heavily by a couple Raiders, but I'm definitely not having the same issues I was having before. I've got a fair number of mods installed, and I'm not sure how stable all of them are. Need to do some more stability testing tonight

Current load order:

Spoiler

Fallout3.esm
Anchorage.esm
ThePitt.esm
BrokenSteel.esm
PointLookout.esm
Zeta.esm
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esm
CRAFT.esm
CALIBR.esm
FOOK2 - Main.esm
FOOK2 - [DIK] DLC Improvement Kit.esm
Mart's Mutant Mod.esm
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Operation Anchorage.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - The Pitt.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Broken Steel.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Point Lookout.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Mothership Zeta.esp
DarNifiedUIF3.esp
CASM.esp
CRAFT - Activation Perk.esp
CONELRAD 640-1240.esp
Treasure Maps_Underground.esp
Treasure Maps_Secrets of the Wasteland.esp
Treasure Maps_Bobblehead Edition.esp
Treasure Maps_A Fist Full of Caps.esp
FOOK2 - Main.esp
FOOK2 Main [Hotfix].esp
FOOK2 - [DIK] DLC Improvement Kit.esp
FOOK2 DIK [Hotfix].esp
WeaponModKits.esp
WeaponModKits - Scope Increases VATS Accuracy.esp
WeaponModKits - OperationAnchorage.esp
WeaponModKits - ThePitt.esp
WeaponModKits - BrokenSteel.esp
WeaponModKits - PointLookout.esp
WeaponModKits - Zeta.esp
WeaponModKits - FOOK.esp
Stealthboy Recon Armor - CRAFT.esp
Alternate Start - Roleplayers.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Zeta.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Hunting & Looting.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Natural Selection.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Tougher Traders.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Zones Respawn.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2 - DIK.esp
MissingUniqueWeapons-Enhanced-BS+PL.esp
WeaponModKits-Unique.esp
AmmoSorter - Start.esp
Sniper's Bliss.esp
H&K PSG-1 Sniper Rifles.esp
Fellout-Full.esp
Fellout-BrokenSteel.esp
Fellout-PointLookout.esp
Fellout-Zeta.esp
AutoAim_6000_v1.0.esp
ReneerInvisibleKarmaMod.esp
Merged Patch.esp

Total active plugins: 63
Total plugins: 63