Okay, so I really hope Bethesda has resolved the design mistake of freely giving you powerful items early in the game through quests and such in which barely any challenge is involved in obtaining them.

For example: the Fatman in Fallout 3.

The other problem with this is, is that by easily obtaining the Fatman, you don't feel any sense of achievement. You also value it less. I'm all for having unique, hand-placed items spread through the world, but when there's no challenge in obtaining such great items, the experience is cheapened.


Fallout: New Vegas remedied this problem I think. My character is leveled somewhere in the 20s, and I haven't found the Fatman yet, and I've only found one mini-nuke. There's only fourteen mini-nukes in New Vegas. Compare that with seventy mini-nukes in Fallout 3 that can be obtained relatively easily. Having so many of these mini-nukes in FO3 also cheapens the experience. They're supposed to be very rare, and difficult to get. Much like how Daedric armor was difficult to obtain in Morrowind.

So Bethesda, I really hoped you've learned this. Your thoughts?

The Fatman was not over powered, nor was it achieved too early. Ammo was scarce, and it was useless in close-combat.

At first I thought this was about the rapper... and then I got excited.

Are you talking about powerful weapons introduced too early?

You can find the strongest Spear in Morrowind's starting village IIRC.

Probably the result why spears were left out in Oblivion, all in the name of balancing it. :shakehead:

I don't think you could actually back up these statements, and no one was saying it was overpowered.

You know what's ludicrous design? Having an Oblivion sized world map! I don't WANT to have my towns close together!

@Kyuunen - That would not be the reason. You can solve that by NOT putting the strongest spear in the starting area. Don't need to get rid of them entirely.

To be honest though, it doesn't really matter if you have the strongest spear in the beginning anyway... not with 30ish spear that you start out with.

I don't think you really have to worry about this, the FAT MAN seems like the only thing they've made this mistake with. Besides, what practical use is a weapon you can only shoot 14 times? They did this in Morrowind, too. There were plenty of expensive and unique items just hiding in peoples' houses which you could easily get at level 1.

On the whole though, I agree. It's the one good thing that came of Oblivion's level-scaled world. You pretty much couldn't get your hands on any of the more powerful items until you were more powerful yourself, it really gave you a sense of progress. In MW the pisspoor leather and fur armors were almost obsolete immediately, as there were plenty of easily obtainable loose samples of more powerful things.

I'd rather them freely give me a powerful weapon than make that weapon weapon upon finding it based on my level

That aside, you're right. Good items should be in a place either:
a. where high level mobs can protect it from low level characters.
b. in a place that the player would likely not find it. By that I mean, in a location that maybe I've been but I didn't look under that one pillow hiding Mehrunes Dagger... as an example. I'm sure you can think of plenty other obscure(but meaningful) places to store high level items.

The problem with my "b" option is that low level characters can find it(even easier if they look online) but I like these kind of items, rather than the typical "high level item guarded by high level monsters" scenario. I always enjoy being like "Wow, seriously? That was there this whole time?"

There are plenty other options but these two stick out to me the most. I agree they shouldn't place high level items in the way the OP mentioned but I like obscure items.

in FO:NV they did the same thing as FO3 they had specific places they were just harder to find you could technically go kill all the deathclaws at the quarry but it would be near impossible

i just dont want every bandit/marauder/vampire having daedric armor when you are level 20. you get too much money and dont kno what to spend it on

Erhmm...in Seyda Neen? Which spear are you talking about? The strongest spear is the Spear of Bitter Mercy, and you've to go to Vivec to obtain it. Or (with expansions), the Spear of Hircine, given to you at the end of Bloodmoon's MQ.

AFAIK, you've to earn the right to obtain powerful weapons in MW. I spent hours and hours to obtain the spear of Bitter Mercy on a lvl 2 char.

I personally never use the Fatman early, for reasons I will place in a spoiler (read on at your own peril):

As others have said, Fatman was not overpowered for a number of reasons.

Also, I'd rather they not worry about low level characters getting powerful weapons. If it seems like armor and weapons are being rationed out to me based on my level it ruins immersion - which for some is not a big deal but for many of us who started our TES experience with Morrowind it's what made us fall in love with the series. It also ruins the risk/reward of dungeon spelunkering that we felt in Morrowind where we could potentially find great items early on.

Yep, guns are different than swords and such. You can give a player a powerful weapon early, and not break the game mechanics. Scarce ammo is why. With a sword, you can repair over and over.

Best spear in the game in Seyda Neen? The only ludicrous thing around here is people making statements without any knowledge of the game whatsoever. Constructive criticism is one thing, taking the piss and degrading every single thread in a "we want spears" rant is quite something else.

There were really much more serious ballance issues in previous TES games. Overpowered enchantments (chameleon, absorption, sanctuary etc) for one. The worst example was the ability to buy training for limitless skills each level in Morrowind. Combined with the Fortify Skill spell introduced in Tribunal, it basicaly allowed you to make any enchantment no matter how powerful really early on, open every lock, pass all persuade checks...You could get to level 70+ in a matter of hours just by stealing a few items and buying training.

Also, I never thought the Fat Man was somehow overpowered because I never bothered carrying it arround - it was heavy, the ammo was scarce at best, and there was nothing in the game that you could not kill without it, so whats the point.

They were left out because they thought they weren't popular enough to bother keeping, the outcry on the forums afterwards proved them wrong.

I've never thought that Bethesda had problems with giving out overpowered equipment too easily, including the Fatman. Just as an example, Umbra was available at level 1 in Oblivion and Morrowind, but there would be no way of getting it until you were more powerful. I prefer knowing where something amazing is but not being able to get it. It makes me work for something and the satisfaction of going back to get it when you can can't be beat. Anyways, that got a little off topic. No, I don't think Bethesda needs to work on this.

Really- and which spear was this then? Because the most powerful two I've ever seen were the Spear of Bitter Mercy and the Spear of Hircine, both of which (as Benrahir points out) were not found in Seyda Neen.



I doubt that a nonexistent uber-spear in Seyda Neen was the cause for spears being left out of Oblivion. :rolleyes:

More like "bad design decision," plain and simple.




I think I managed it at level 3 once.

Did something similar in Oblivion later- then learned how over-the-top level scaling was and how hard it had shafted me.