http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Useful_Enchantments says that effects in an enchanted weapon are applied in reverse order when the weapon is used. Now that confuses me a great deal. Can anyone clarify? What is an "order"? Does it mean one effect can't start until the previous effect ends? What if I have "Weakness to Fire 25% for 3 sec, Fire Damage 8 pts for 3 sec", it would be pointless to have the Weakness effect ends before the Fire Damage, wouldn't it. So do the effects really start simultaneously?

Let's say I have a sword with the following enchantments whose displayed order is:

Weakness to Magic - 25% for 3 sec
Weakness to Fire - 25% for 3 sec
Weakness to Shock - 25% for 3 sec
Fire Damage - 8 pts for 3 sec
Shock Damage - 8 pts for 3 sec
Damage Health - 3 pts for 11 sec
Soul Trap - 3 sec

Do ALL these effects occur at the same instant my weapon hits the opponent, or does something else happens?

And is there really a "reverse order" of effects kicking in?

My sword above seems to be working fine. The soul trap is working fine, but I can't verify whether the Weakness effects are applied correctly or not. Do I really need to order the effects reversely as the UESP article suggests? I tried reversing the order and putting Soul Trap at the top of the list like UESP suggested, but Soul Trap DID NOT work then, not once.

Yes, this is confusing. Even to me and I have done a great deal of enchanting. The way they did this conflicts with my way of thinking how it should work so I′m afraid I can′t help you too good.
What I can tell you however is that weakness should always be applied last in order to work properly. Until I knew that I always put them first like you, which to me is the logical thing to do. In my mind weakness prepares the target and is useless after the damage has come and gone. Obviously, this is not how Beth looked at it

Hope that helped some at least

Found http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion_talk:Enchanting/Archive_1#Order_of_magical_effects that deals with this subject in greater detail, but still with only conjectures from the author, no definitive info.

Quoting from the article:

"I tested [with] two identically enchanted Akiviri Dai Katanas, the only difference being the order of the enchantments. Katana 1 had: Shock Damage 10, Frost Damage 10, Fire Damage 10, Weakness Shock 100, Weakness Frost 100, Weakness Fire 100, Weakness Magic 100, all 1 sec durtion. Katana 2 had the same, except with everything ordered in reverse. Every [kill] took 3 strikes (in rapid succession) with Katana 1, and over 6 strikes with Katana 2. ... Katana 2's weaknesses must be wearing off before the next strike.

"I guess all enchantments don't exactly happen instantly."

"...it appears weakness spells are getting thrown away if they come before damage spells, even on successive strikes, despite the duration of the weakness spell."

"I was killing in about half the strokes with the one version of the same weapon as another. The only difference [between the two weapons] was the ORDER of the effects on the weapons: I enchanted [one weapon] in reverse alphabetical order, meaning 'weakness to magic' was the first effect, and I enchanted [the other weapon] in alphabetical order, meaning weakness was the last effect. The difference is huge..."

"Random forum pvssyr indicated that the game takes the effects in alphabetical order no matter what order is used to enchant originally, but based on testing I can only conclude that the order does in fact matter. Weakness effects must be listed after damage effects, no matter how many times you strike a target."

"The weakness effect also takes effect in the same strike as the damage effects as long as it is listed after..."

Strange... In my experience, putting Soul Trap last means I would never get the soul. Ever. I put it first in order, however I make it last one second longer than my longest time damage. So I always put it first. I've never had a problem with it.

Soul Trap - 4 sec
Fire Damage - 8 pts for 3 sec
Shock Damage - 8 pts for 3 sec
Damage Health - 3 pts for 11 sec
Weakness to Fire - 25% for 3 sec
Weakness to Shock - 25% for 3 sec
Weakness to Magic - 25% for 3 sec


That's how I would put the load order. I changed your ST time. I think Soul Trap wasn't working, and I've experienced this myself, when it is the same duration as the damage. You kill your opponent, but miss out on the soul.

Have you tried putting Soul Trap last, with the same duration with the other effects? That's what I do and I always get the souls.

But it seems we are getting completely opposite results. Soul Trap first never works for you and always does for me, and vice versa. Could this be patch-related? I have the official 1.2.0416 patch only. I'm on Windows 7 64-bit service pack 1. Also, could this have something to do with the CPU speed? I've played the game on core2duo 2.6GHz and a core i5 2.6GHz.

Where to insert soul trap and for how long has been debated here for years by lots of smart folks.

I've never paid much attention so I don't really have a recommendation or opinion. I just looked at Buffy's bow, Slayer. Soul trap x 1 second is the third of four effects. I estimate she has failed to capture a soul when she expected to much less than 1% of the time. Her 'souls captured' stat is well over 2500. Your mileage may vary of course, so I'm simply reporting our experience. Now that said, the cost of adding another second to soul trap is pretty negligible.

I'm on 360, playing the GOTY. Acadian says he placed it third on his list....
Here's my experience:
If ST is the same time as the damage, I never get the soul. I would kill my opponent but never hear that lovely sound. I played with damages, and just by chance figured out the one second deal. I figured my bow was too powerful in damages, in that it would kill, but kill too fast; before the Soul Trap would take effect. And that's why I started putting it first, so that it would "envelope" the time duration of damage dealt.

If it is one second longer, as I outlined in my previous post, I get the soul. I used to put it last in the load order, and would never get the soul. I figured I was doing it wrong, or my mysticism was low on my first playthrough. On subsequent plays, I put ST first, with the one second advantage, and then I started getting the souls. Nearly every time. So that's what I've stuck with.

Based in my own testing and experience, I believe the wiki is incorrect in saying the effects are applied in reverse order. That the effects are applied in order is also consistent with other parts of the wiki.

But it is correct in saying that the Weakness should be applied last. This is because an effect on the second strike will replace that on the first. Let's use a simpler example than the one above to explain:

Weakness to Magic 100%
Weakness to Fire 100%
Fire 100 points

if that is the enchantment then on the first strike none of the weaknesses apply, because no weaknesses from a single strike apply to that strike, ever. On the second strike however, the effects are applied in order. So what happens is that since there is a weakness to magic from the first strike at the time of the second strike, the Weakness to Magic is increased to 200% and then replaces the Weakness to magic from the first strike. However, since weaknesses from a given strike do not apply to damage from that strike, then the weakness to fire and fire damage is not amplified. So after weakness to magic on the second strike, the weakness to fire from the second strike replaces that from the first, and finally 100 points of fire damage is applied.

So at the end of the second strike you get Weakness to Magic 200%, Weakness to Fire 100% and Fire Damage 100 points from the second strike.

However let's look at this order:


Fire 100 points
Weakness to Fire 100%
Weakness to Magic 100%

In that case on the second strike the (1) the 100 points fire damage is applied with both the Weakness to Magic and the Weakness to Fire from the first strike are in affect. So the fire damage is increased to 200 by weakness to magic and then to 400 by weakness to fire. (2) Then the weakness to fire is increased by the weakness to magic from the first strike to 200% and then replaces the weakness to fire from the first strike, and (3) then the weakness to magic is increased by the weakness to magic on the first strike to 200% then replaces it.

So at the end of the second strike you now get 400 points fire damage from the second strike, 200% Weakness to Fire, and 200% Weakness to Magic

So much better with the second order. But the above implies that the effects are applied in order, not in reverse order.

In some cases, the order does not seem to matter. Casting a damage spell normally cancels invisibility. But I've found you can have both in a custom spell and the order doesn't matter.

Yes. Although I'm not 100% sure, I'm pretty sure that soul trap can be any were in the spell too. The importance of order mostly seems to apply to weakness and damage effects.

I'm wondering, based upon the difference of user experience about spell order, whether the processing order may be reversed between PCs and some flavors of consoles. This is certainly possible; different processor types have different ways of handling stacks or arrays.