I am very fond of the idea that Sotha Sil was re-shaping the world from his Clockwork City, i believe he did love his people. I dont know how to put it, but i think he was a better person than vivec. After all, he did make the pact with the major Daedra Princes (Ironically, Mournhold was torn to the ground right after by nice little Dagon).

Maybe for some reason the events in Tribunal that led to his death prevented from developing what his true purpose was, and if his research would have brought some grand benefit to Tamriel.

Or maybe the hole point of the character was to remain a question mark and that?s the reason i like him so much. And Sotha Sil wasn?t so detached from the world, otherwise he wouldnt hace come back from Artaeum at all.

But you?re right, he gave in to despair and shut down. Vivec confronted the prospect of losing his divinity, but he did so to his own selfish benefit.

I can never truly decide wether I hate Vivec or i admire him... Maybe both, is this a common feeling??

Or did he? We don't know his true motives...even if the events from the Trial of Vivec really happened and are part of the canon, we can't be entirely sure they were fully selfish. Perhaps banishing the Daedra Azura and temporarily shutting down travels between her realm and Mundus were part of some plan to protect the Dunmer? Perhaps she would have allied with Dagon during his latest campaign. Weren't Winged Twilights used against Ald-Ruhn? Perhaps Vivec, with the insight from his training, as well as his CHIM, forsaw the evil Azura could do and put a stop to it.

Or perhaps he was just being a petty, selfish git who had to have things his own way. Like a child who has its favorite toy taken away from it by a chiding parent, perhaps Vivec lashed out in anger and impotent rage against Azura, the parent figure who had scolded him before, and who had apparently already sent his brother and sister to bed early (and without their supper no less.)




Yes, I'd say it's a common feeling. I like the version of Vivec who the player interacted with in the game. I found MK's version from the sermons and forum posts....intriguing, but in a less likable way. I didn't hate either. I can't decide on if I trust the latter aspect though. He has a lot of Mephala in him, this demon Vehk. Way too much for comfort. I tell you this, even after CHIM, that man has Daedra's blood in his veins. However sophisticated, he and ALL his clique were always wild, caged animals, barely containing their carnal urges under a farce of civility and sophisticated words. (Hell, just listen to the vocalizations that thing makes when you choose to fight him in the game!)

(Which happen to be the default creature voices, which were only used because somebody at Bethesda forgot to make the Vivec creature use the voices they had someone act in the recording studio.)

Sotha Sil was involved, just not as much. He's quite active in Dunmer affairs during the events of 2920, and don't forget that his Clockwork City is actually a city with a population of its own, so even there he's not wholly separated from his people (what you see in Tribunal would be comparable to visiting just Vivec's Palace in Vivec City and using it to make a judgement on the city as a whole, we just saw Sotha Sil's workshop)...

Maybe you?re right, it?s a very interesting point that you make about it. But i don?t see Azura joining Mehrunes Dagon in the invasion. Azura?s actions regarding the mortals are not as drastic as Dagon?s. If she (yeah daedra princes don?t have gender... whatever) really wanted such a terrible punishment on the dunmer she would have done something about it a long time ago.

But then, the winged twilights are good evidence of some involvement in her part... or not, just because they?re her daedric creature of choice doesn?t mean they are exclusive, does it?

However, Azura IS Dawn and Dusk, it makes sense that she would be involved in the ending of the 3rd era and the death of the Septim line...

The Empire will be no more!!! YAAAY for anarchy!

I think we can agree it's metaphorical.
I have a deep hatred for Vivec. He, through my eyes, appeared as though he only wanted to appear kind. It's a white, grey, black sorta thing.
Sotha Sil was the one who spoke against the daedra Azura, saying that they were the newer and much more powerful gods. I believe right after he felt nothing short fo guilt. When, in the history of Vivecs reign as a god-king/queen? did he ever take in pupils, to expand their knowlegde and wisdom?
Whereas Sotha Sil would've reshaped the world into something marvellous. Or at least a small and significant portion.

Sotha Sil-The White(Good)
Vivec-The Grey(a goody-too shoes good/bad)
Almalexia-The Black(evil)

I despise Vivec! Or is it past tense?

I wouldn?t tag Almalexia as evil. Yes, she cheated on her husband and sided with Vehk, but she?s Dunmer! They are all wierd and treason is not a uncommon trade on them. Its practically telvanni and hlalu?s slogan.

She crossed the line by killing Sotha Sil, probably no one will ever forgive for that, but she was mentally unstable at that point.

And wasn?t she the triune most loved by the dunmer?

I tend to see Almie as the more emotionally driven of the three god-kings

All i?m saying is that the image we get from her in Tribunal isn?t accurate, since she has alreadt given in to despair

True, but then wasn't the power of the triune obtained through deciet? Of course she'd have to be loved, it was part of the "Kill My Hubby to gain Power" contract. I'd say she was only loved because she was the Nerevar's husband... Plus the Dunmer are clingy and shallow-minded.
Plus, she's a women! Um, what women isn't emotionally driven??(aside from Oprah and tyra)

I do agree she was portrayed as a bit of a psycho in the tribunal though. it's a shame she went mad like she did. In the 2920 books she was quite lovable.

Constantly. Next?

Right there's where you go wrong. TES intentionally stays away from dividing things up in good and evil like that, and the last thing that the Tribunal are is simple enough to fit into that statement (heck, Vivec alone is too complex for that statement, much less throwing Almalexia and Sil in there too).

Boethiah, one of the chief gods of the Dunmer, has the sphere of "deceit and conspiracy". Deceit is not a bad thing for them. And once again, you're being too simple. She was not only loved for being Nerevar's husband (especially not three-thousand years after Nerevar's death), she was indeed a loving individual, and to say that the Dunmer are clingy and shallow-minded is just a wrong-headed statement in every way possible... your entire argument is based on petty stereotypes and oversimplification...

I see. Well, I learned something today. Thanks.

(Note: My teeth are gritted in defensive flamming intended anger, although shallow and useless. I'm trying to accept criticism and I think I'm doing well.)

....which is what I was trying to say.... and what I pointed out in my first post. Vehk doesn't run around thieving and stealing.

...That's his nature. He IS the black/white/grey.

Concerning his status of god: he very much so was a god. I say someone with the capacity to teach a society to breath water is pretty godlike. That is also just one example. Concerning pupils: Nerevar, anyone? And I'm sure that's not the only one. He also even "taught" Tiber in a sense.

You can (probably) thank Azura for what happened to Seht.

There is something about this classification that I just don't like. Mainly the Seht and Ayem parts. They just don't seem to make sense to me.

Luagar nailed it. They're a bit more complex than that.

Ehh...
Okay people, read the above posts. I recieved an academic slap on the wrist already. Don't bombard me please.

thank-you


It was a statement intended to simplify things. Clearly I'm ignorant.