I don't think any of the gains in Warp of the West were anything close to permanent, at least not the way the RP is set up. If everyone would've managed to keep their new stuff together, there wouldn't have been any Anticlere in which ideas could foster, the Capets I created would've tried to draw power to the capital, Daggerfall, so Anticlere wouldn't have grown as we say it has, not more than any other of the smaller cities along the Iliac. And then most of the local ruling lines of the realms stuffed under the three realms wouldn't have been allowed to keep ruling their places most likely, particularly not in Wayrest once it evolved into an absolute monarchy, and then the people who'd be appointed to rule the new gains wouldn't have probably gone along with some sort of a populist uprising. In another 'and then', Orsinium would've probably had an even harder time keeping its new stuff than Daggerfall and Wayrest, because if the minor realms don't take kindly to their kinsmen ruling over them, Orcs wouldn't have been any more welcome (since there aren't that many Orc-populated areas in High Rock I asume most of Orsinium's new land was populated by Bretons, not 100% certain though) and with Wayrest and Daggerfall looking for a chance to bite a couple of hands off Orsinium, it gets easier and easier to lose those territories. But then I don't think any of the three would've been much affected by the rapid loss of their new lands, since they gained them even faster and probably never had much of a chance to make their hold over them solid. Pretty much every RP I've seen in High Rock doesn't pay much attention to the Warp of the West, so I've come to look at it as a slightly more unusual episode in the quarreling mess that is the Iliac.

As for my suggestion on where to set the next RP if we 'zoom in', I'll just let democracy do its job. If more people want to do war than politics, then the best choice would probably be somewhere between Koegria and Alcaire, or the area around Koegria, depends on if that went over to UB without a fight or if Wayrest managed to reinforce the area and stop that from happening. But you people choose, I'm not even sure if I'm in this thing anymore.

So, what do you guys want to do?

Remember though, the Warp in the west moved whole armies, instantly leading to invasions, the destruction of cities, the moving of cities, the retaking. City's that didn't fly Orsinium's flag one second had an orcish army inside it the next. All of this was complicated by Great Numidium scorching and devestating the land at the new borders of the nations. By the time of the Oblivion crisis, the nations were at relative peace and their borders had stabilized, with Orsinium, Wayrest, Sentinel, and Daggerfall ruling the illiac region. I think it would be a bad idea to ignore the warp's effects, since it destroyed 90% of the regions Kingdoms, and created four Kingdoms that, by the time of Oblivion, still possessed their vastly expanded territories. To me, ignoring the warp causes things to not make a lot of sense.

But then that leads to my point of if we accept the warp as some apocalypse-esque event, then the plot doesn't make a lot of sense, unless we opt that a big lot of stuff changed after the Oblivion Crisis and everyone lost most of their territory (since the current borders are relatively recently established, only as old as the UB itself). Also, while the Warp might've moved armies, charred some land and ruined some cities, I doubt it briefed those armies on where exactly they were and why they were there, or change the ethnic makeup of the cities or the dispositions of the nobility there.

But then I'm a what could be called radical realist when it comes to some aspects of TES lore so feel free to ignore my overly our-world grounded interpretations.

actually, Queen Akothiri's armies were aware of the correct date when they suddenly appeared at a city, but everyone else in that city had lost an entire day, just to give an example. I think, personally, that being a radical realist doesn't really work in the Tes world, especially when we have robo-gods that break time when someone pushes the on button. (It's another thing to note that as a result of the warp, the nobility of some cities were outright slaughtered, 44 kingdoms to 4)

This event also caused the sudden materialization of storms, among other things. There is only one country that this RP consisently failed to represent accurately at a territorial level, and that is Orsinium. If Orsinium had a more reasonable amount of territory, then, there wouldn't be problems with the pre-existing lore. Currently though, Orsinium's territory assignment doesn't make sense.

Unless it lost them not that long after the Oblivion Crisis (during it, perhaps?) and has since somewhat recovered. It has been 150-ish years, after all.

Being radical realist works in quite a few cases (or it has for me), at least until the aforementioned robots come into play. Since they don't appear all too much, when they do I can in most cases rely on General Melchett's advice: 'If nothing else, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will get us through'.

Actually, Bretony balkanizing again isn't as odd as it seems. Since nothing in the TES universe lasts for long because its mythic nature.

However, some of things in the RP don't make a ton of sense in conjunction with what we know of Tamriel, and High Rock in particular, notably United Bretony. If the Iliac Bay balkanized, Daggerfall and Wayrest would lose a lot of there power, eliminating them as an immmiediate threat as they try to get everything in order, so the lords of Great Bretony would have no real reason to group together, at least in the semi-binding way United Bretony is portrayed as.

All I'm saying is that Orsinium should have more territory, even if it's not the huge amount it had post Warp, it's completely unexplained in the rp as to how it lost nearly 100% of it's territory. At the very least, we need to pen down an explanation for Orsinium's loss of territory.

The fact of the matter is, the idea was unpolished (I hadn't actually given it much thought beyond talking with ImmortalBlood once if something like that could be done in the Timeline when the idea popped up one night) and wooly just decided to make it an RP like that, so there are flaws I too see now that stuff has been brought up by y'all. My bad, should've brought them up when the stuff hadn't yet launched. I suppose now might be a good chance for you people to polish the stuff, that is if everyone'd like a restart. By now I've made up my mind that I won't be in it, since I was having trouble with inspiration for it some time before it died.

You love that font don't you? Also, has ANTIclere ever been at war with Clere?

Now, to end the randomness, I think that is the root of the problem, and your right in that this would be a great opportunity to polish everything and make it all neat.

Proposed explanation for Orsinium: With much of it's military damaged in the Oblivion Crisis, The rulers of Orsinium's outlying settlements saw an opportunity to break away. The Wrothgarian mountains ensured that Orsinium could not easily send a response to these rebelling border cities, and it was forced to fortify it's remaining settlements agianst southern aggression rather than put down the rebellions. Later border conflicts would slowly eat away at Orsinium's influence.

Ok. good.

So where is the next RP taking place. Suggestions. I need to know IF you guys want to do something, and WHAT you guys want to do.

I think Dren should be asked before anything is made final about Orsinium, it is his faction after all.

Hey, back and a small explanation.

My MSN file got corrupted, and so I used eBuddy, as online version, but, since I don't really like eBuddy, I've rarely been on MSN. In the meantime, I've had other things to do, and after the first few weeks, I kept checking back here for posts, and since they were scarce, I assumed it was basicly dead, and forgot about it, on top of this, the new forum layout made it almost impossible for me to browse due to my slow internet. I've talked with PFA on MSN(He's always on ) but I wasn't able to get in touch with Seth, so I find is rarely on, and has a far different time zone to mine. So, I just checked back here, and whatnot. Seth just came on and sent me a message a bit ago, then went offline, so I came back to check in, basicly.

I'd prefer to have things as they are, even though I acknowledge things have run out of steam and imploded. I'm willing to continue to roleplay no matter what your guys decision is, if you manage to get the RP going again. I apoligise for my absence and my poor explanation for it.

Ok. So, what do you guys want to do.

Alright. We are starting over on a smaller scale. I'll provide more info soon.

My own recommendation is for Orsinium to be the center of the action. It seems that Dren has an intriguing bit of internal issues, and I think Orsinium would be essential to both UB's and Wayrest's war efforts.

I think we're going to do the skirmish thing first. I'm not completely sure yet.