(If you have facts, always post links to your sources. Thanks.)

1. People and beasts should leave their footprints in the snow. Naturally, it would be understandable if they disappeared after a short time.

2. Snow sprays up behind beasts as they sprint toward you, and from your person as you run away. Could look awesome in slow-mo.

3. Snow has perceivable depth. I'm not talking about accumulation or realistic snow animations - just snow that has already settled. In other words, when walking through the snowy tundra, will there be snow up to my knees at times? This in particular could add some really interesting game play options, such as hiding things like loot, traps and entrances under the snow, or slowly draining health when stationary for too long.

4. Avoid the yellow snow. (Not a feature request, just a friendly tip.)

I don't see how anyone could consider these bad ideas, just whether the engine can handle them.

Not important? I'd say this is very important.
And I believe it's already in; snow is dynamic.
If snow would just be something you walked on no matter what, showing no effect of you walking on it... then that would be really really really bad for a game coming out near 2012. A game which, btw, is also based on a lot of snowy environments...


Features like this could be done rather easy about 4 years ago.

Agreed, that's why I didn't ask whether anybody thinks they are bad ideas

I've followed much of the discussions around snow, especially early on when we first learned about it from the GI article. Frankly, what I've gotten out of it so far is that snow falling from the sky will appear to fall more realistically than in Oblivion. That's all. I don't recall seeing any evidence, or even anything that implies for that matter, that snow is dynamic on the ground in any way.

Please, by all means post sources if you can prove me wrong. I'd love to be convinced that snow is actually fully "dynamic", including failing, landing and accumulating.

1) Snow is NOT a preset texture (and by that it means that snow on the ground is not always snow). This was in the GI-article. In order to snow not being a preset texture, there could be a shader of some sort. Bethesda says that this wasn't done, and they created another system instead.

2) "Given its northern location and extreme elevations, Skyrim's climate is more prone to snowfall than Cyrodiil. To create realistic precipitation effects, Bethesda originally tried to use shaders and adjust their opacity and rim lighting, but once the artists built the models and populated the world the snow appeared to fall too evenly. To work around this problem, they built a new precipitation system that allows artists to define how much snow will hit particular objects. The program scans the geography, then calculates where the snow should fall to make sure it accumulates properly on the trees, rocks, and bushes."

The red-lighted text shows that Bethesda originally tried to use some kind of shader that adds snow onto the ground; supporting the idea that it was meant not to be a preset texture.
The green-lighted text shows that Bethesda worked around this system by not using shaders, but instead some kind of system where snow falls realistically. Given the information in 1), I think it's safe to assume snow is fully dynamic.

3) Basically all other articles from magazines or people, shows that it has been interpreted that snow is dynamic.

I think these were already announced and I would also like weather to have effect on you I.E. if there is a blizzard it will slow you down and if you are not wearing a fur coat on top of your armour then you will lose health faster or something

As I said before, always post links to sources please.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think http://www.gameinformer.com/games/the_elder_scrolls_v_skyrim/b/xbox360/archive/2011/01/17/the-technology-behind-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim.aspx. Here is the exact description from that source, verbatim. (The highlights are my additions)

• Where in this quote does it ever mention the ground specifically? It mentions "falling" repeatedly, so my understanding is that they had attempted to use shaders to draw the snow while it was failing and realized that it wasn't realistic enough, while falling.
  
• Bethesda made the decision not to use shaders after they "built the models and populated the world", because "the snow appeared to fall too evenly", which states pretty clearly they are talking about falling snow that is too even, which was tested outside of the game world first, and once inside the game world it appeared that the shaders weren't realistic enough. If the shaders were for accumulation effects, then Bethesda would have tested snow accumulating on objects well before placing the shaders into the actual game world.
  
• The use of "define how much snow will hit particular objects" implies accumulation on objects, and also implies that this is a static setting chosen during the design phase, not a real-time calculation that occurs while playing the game. Furthermore, it states nothing about the ground on which you walk, which is the topic of my poll.
  
• The words "The program scans the geography, then calculates" are used, which to me implies very clearly that accumulation is a precalculated system that does not change while playing the game.
  
• The statement, "accumulates properly on the trees, rocks, and bushes", refers to particular objects only, never anything about the ground that you walk on.
  
• The word "dynamic" is never used here in any context at all. Where did you get that word from?

I think people are drawing biased conclusions from these facts based on their desires for realistic snow on the ground. That's why I started this poll; to gather facts about snow on the ground. Certainly, the GI article provides absolutely no evidence at all to support the ideas in my poll as facts in any way.

Again, if anybody can prove me wrong by citing actual facts I'd really love to see links to sources please.

I don't think so. I assume you're probably referring to the same GI article that's already been discussed so many times. If you have a different, actual official source announcing that snow on the ground leaves tracks, sprays when you move and has traversable depth, then by all means post links to your sources please!

In the GI-article (buy the magazine or look on scans or w/e) it says "Snow falls naturally onto the stones and the branches, appearing not as a preset texture, but falling exactly as it would onto that object given its shape and size".

The preset texture thing pretty much only leaves it as an option where snow is dynamic (as far as I know), since no shader is used. Also, in the "The technology behind Skyrim" article it says "accumulates properly on the trees, rocks, and bushes" says rocks, while the GI-article doesn't. So basically, this shows that you shouldn't read word for word from a single source; that's really not a good method. You should read what's said about it from other sources as well and try to get a whole perspective.

In any case, we'll just have to wait and see...
I hope for the best.

If effects like these aren't in the game, I will be pretty disappointed...

uncharted 2 has excellent snow effects
id like to see something along those lines
(for those who havent played- basically deep footholes with realistic displacement of snow that doesnt immediately fade away, and snowy boots and pants)

it might also be nice to come across animal or creature tracks
you can decide whether or not to follow them
of course that isnt possible yet but maybe next time
i think that would be really cool

Exactly. If everything goes well with development, the snow animations will be an improvement from what I've read already.

+Petrose

(First of all, I don't mean to come across sounding angry or belligerent in any way. It's often hard in forums to discuss facts succinctly without insulting people. I do appreciate that you're trying to prove that my suggestions will be implemented, even though I don't believe there are any facts yet at all supporting your conclusions.)



Exactly, that's why I created this topic and asked for sources, repeatedly

Now, in addition to the lack of evidence from the GI article online, your new interpretation apparently stems from a quote in the magazine involving the terms "preset textures":



The online article elaborates as follows:



And here are the applicable responses that I gave previously. I believe my interpretation still stands. You haven't provided any new evidence to the contrary yet.

1. I'm sure some form of decals will be used. Whether they'll be static that fade or dynamic that the game tracks is yet to be seen.
2. Just a simple particle effect to use when sprinting occurs, nothing that can't be handled. Just if it's developed or not. Though it could get more complex than that and actually shift the dynamically piling snow. I can see it now. Skyrim, the shoveling experience!
3. It's yet to be seen whether or not this dynamically falling snow is only for objects in the game world or the ground as well. One could infer as much but I won't get ahead of myself. Time will tell.

Seems like a pretty small thing to get disappointed about. Before you know it, Bethesda will have no sales because every player was upset about how Skyrim wasn't a perfect simulation of reality...

number one, Oblivion had tracks in the snow i believe.
Also... Good ideas so have yourself a fishy stick
[http://images.uesp.net//c/c4/Fishystick.jpg

sounds like a cool feature, but I won't be disappointed if it's not there.
now, If I can lay in it and make a snow angel, then yes I want it.

i think the wind should affect snowfall

If the snow can in any way be affected by this 'circle of protection' spell or telekinesis, I will need clean underwear.

These should all be pretty easy to implement, even the apparent depth, without being too taxing on system resources.

Good thread :thumbsup: