Quite often when I encounter a goblin tribe in their lair, it seems like the leveled list tends to go crazy. When I corpse check them after a kill there's a ton of items there, mostly weapons, way more than the creature should have been able to carry in the first place. I was running into this in Derelict Mine and it just happened to me again in Plundered Mine. There's seems to be something about encountering them in their lair since I don't see that happening if I catch them outside, their items are normal then. And it also seems to happen only with Berserkers that I can see so far, the ordinary Goblins are just fine. I'm not sure about the Skirmishers. I don't have this problem at all with the regular goblin Berserkers, it only happens with the special tribes. Does anyone know what's causing this and how I can fix it? It svcks feeling I have to avoid these dungeons just because the game is screwing up on me.

PS: Here's what I find after killing a Three Feather Goblin Berserker in Plundered Mine:

Durable Dwarven Shortsword
Durable Silver Shortsword
Dwarven War Axe
3 Silver Maces
2 Silver Shortswords
4 Steel Maces
4 Steel Shortswords
Steel War Axe
2 Light Iron Shields

Plus there's a Steel Shield and a Dwarven Mace lying on the ground. The creature shouldn't even have been able to move with all that stuff. I was getting the exact same thing happening in Derelict Mine with the Sharp Tooth Goblin Berserkers there.

I'm not very good at diagnosing Oblivion problems, however, this sounds like a mod you have installed edited the Vanilla base for specific Goblins...if I am not mistaken, often times there - as you said - tribes with names that are not just "Goblin" but more like "Waterpool Goblin" (example name, that is not really a real Goblin "tribe") in this case, it would probably mean that, yes, a mod you have installed edited their base and overwrote their original data - which is bad modding skills.

I do not know how much this may help people who are better at diagnosing the problem, but, I think it would help others who want to help you if you post your load order.

The only mod I have that could possibly make that sort of change is Frans, and I doubt very much it would cause a major error like that. I even suspected that it might be causing it at one point and tried various things to work around it, like replacing Frans leveled list for the default. I even went into Derelict Mine with no mods at all at one point, just vanilla Oblivion. But nothing I've done has had any effect so far. I've just tried a few more things at Plundered Mine yet the same thing keeps happening. What's odd is that the items appearing in the carcass are exactly the same each time, like there's some special inventory list at work there that overrides the one for the creature itself. The leveled list that the special tribes have is exactly the same as the ones for the regular goblins and I've never had a problem with those. Plus if I kill them outside their lair, everything's normal. The problem only occurs if I kill them inside their stronghold.

Do you use Streamline?

Yes, why? I don't see how that could possibly be the cause of a screwed up death inventory. Or do you know something that I don't? Plus as I mentioned, I went into Derelict Mine at one point with no mods at all, not even Streamline. Though of course there could already have been something in my save game. Frankly I'm completely baffled by this problem, I can't see any cause for it whatsoever. I'm just hoping that someone else has come across it and figured out how to fix it. I'm at a complete loss myself.

I was trying to track down an error similar to this last year. I never fully confirmed it, but Streamline's "corpse killer" function seemed to be the culprit. Every time it issued a "kill" command to an already dead creature/NPC it seemed to give them more items.

Interesting. I'l ltry turning off that function and see if it makes a difference. It doesn't seem to work all that well anyway, I still see standing corpses from time to time.

PS:. It doesn't look like that's the problem. I turned it off and went back to Plundered Mine, yet the same thing still happened. In fact, I once again got the exact same death inventory as the one I listed. If it was Streamline, I suspect it would be a bit more random, but it's always the same. And why would it only affect the Berserkers? The regular Goblins are just fine.

I noticed something similar happening when I did the Mehrune's Razor quest. In a couple of areas, the Village and the entrance to it, any Bowman I killed would end up with a bunch of arrows, far more than a character normally has. In the other areas though, like the forge and mines, they were normal. I ended up getting out of there with almost 1500 Iron arrows, plus a bunch of other types. I probably had about 3000 arrows in total by the time I was finished that quest. Plus an insane amount of other loot. It took me at least 3 game days just to haul it back and get rid of it all. I think they made that area a little too big frankly. Interesting though.

If it isn't Streamline, I suggest checking out the goblins in TES4EDIT to which items they are supposed to have. Also check if they have AI Packages that make them pick up things.

Would help to See the Original Load order before you changed it around. Is this by Chance the Warcry "Death Items" Problem?

Also Pretty Sure you would have to wait out your respawn to See if the things your Changing are in fact working.

Well according to the CS, they have the exact same levelled list that the regular Berserkers have, which I don't have any problems with.



No they don't.

No, I'm not using War Cry.



No, I'm not entering the cell before making the changes. I save just outside the door, then enter. Nothing spawns until I actually enter the mine. You only need to wait for the respawn if you've already entered the cell recently, which I haven't. As far as the game's concerned, it's a brand new area that it's never dealt with before.

Well Fran's does affect leveled lists. But it shouldn't cause that kind of bug. Somehow it must be a mod conflict.

If you disable a mod, then to test it you may need to go to a new area or leave an area and wait for a long time, at least 3 days. Once a goblin has been generated I suspect disabling a mod will not immediately alter its inventory. You'd need to generate a new goblin for that, I think.

If you have many mods loaded use TES4EDIT to check the goblins and see which mods affect them.

I've already mentioned, the only mod I have that could possibly have any effect on them is Frans so I highly doubt that's the issue. Nothing else makes any change to any creature or leveled list, and I even made changes to the creatures there to try and fix it. It seems quite obvious that it's a game engine problem in some way. I even went in to Derelict Mine once with nothing but Oblivion.esm turned on and the same thing happened.

Again, I'm saving the game outside then entering an area that I've never been to before. The respawn wait is not an issue. As far as the game is concerned, it's a brand new Goblin as soon as I enter the mine each time.

Very unlikely that it is a game engine problem.

As I said above after you disable mods you'll need to go to either a new area or an area you have not been in for a long time. That way the Goblins will respawn with the new levelled list. Is that what you did when disabling all mods?

Recommend going someplace far away, like Anvil, disable all mods, wait for 15 days (unfortunately that is tedious but may be necessary) then return to Derelict Mine and see if the problem exists. If not you can try re-enabling mods to see what caused the problem.

Looks like this was answered while I was typing. Still I doubt it's a game engine problem.

They didn't need to be respawned since they had never been spawned in the first place. That's what I did. I saved the game without ever entering the mine before. Now possibly there was already something in my save game screwing things up, but as far as I can see it was vanilla Oblivion causing the problem. I'm just hoping someone else has run into this situation and figured out a way around it. This has been happening since I've had the game, for many years now. I've always had to avoid Derelict Mine because of this screw up, and now Plundered Mine is doing the same thing. It's not strictly a Goblin Tribe issue, since I've never had any problems with Goblin Jim's lair.

Ooops, we seem to be just a few seconds behind each other.

I really hope you find the answer. All I could add at the moment is that I've gone through both Derelict Mine and Plundered Mine with almost every (maybe every) character -- because I like Goblins to train skills. I have noticed that goblins in and around those mines tend to have an unusually large number of arrows (like 250+ steel arrows), maybe that is related. But I've never noticed excessive equipment. I've been monitoring the forums quite a while and have not heard of that problem. (I don't use Frans, just OOO). I've checked the "discussion" pages on the wiki, where people sometimes up un-vetted info like this, and nothing there.

If it were a game engine problem, I would think others would have complained. I think you're saying this also happens if you start a new game without mods. That is strange.

Good luck in fixing this.

Yes, that is related. It's not the type of gear, but the excessive amounts of them. As I mentioned, I ran into a similar situation doing the Mehrune's Razor quest. The Bowmen were dropping like 100+ Iron arrows at a time, plus other types, but only in specific areas. Outside of those they were normal. I also ran into this quite awhile back in this fort outside of Cheydinhal. The creatures, I forget what they were called, were also dropping 100+ arrows at time. It's like the levelled lists go haywire and start looping, adding excessive amounts of items to a creature's death inventory. And I'm not sure if this happens if I start a brand new vanilla game or not. I've always had at least some mods when I tried to go through Derelict Mine, though not necessarily the ones I currently have. But it's been the same problem every time I go there. I guess I should try it with no mods at all and see what happens.

I notice that those goblins have their loot replaced with Frans scripted levelled lists. The ones that give them scripted "calipers" and then replace them with weapons and shields.

All the items you listed are in those scripts, and those scripts involve running multiple quests in sequence. They are complicated and look delicate.

If they misfire, you'll likely get weird results like this. A full FCOM install with a bashed patch pretty much overrides those lists and eliminates the problem.

If you have persistent problems with that, then replacing the levelled lists using a bashed patch (or direct editing with TES4Edit) may be your only solution.

I tried replacing the Frans list with the ones from vanilla Oblivion but it didn't make any difference. I even tried using the default list from the minor Goblin, since they work fine, but still no luck.



Well I don't use FCOM just Frans, so that's no solution. I don't have any interest in either OOO or MMM, I've tried both. I wouldn't mind MMM if it stuck with just adding creatures, but it does far more than that. And not all of it I like.

If you got the same variety of items after changing the Levelled list on the goblins, then you definitely need to wait out the respawn time. Most of the items you listed aren't in the vanilla lists and should only be getting added by the Frans scripts.

No the Frans items didn't appear after I made the change, but all the rest did. And the only items that Frans added were the durable items, all the rest are stock. I'm not using the optional items part of Frans at all, the lists it uses are strictly vanilla. He's only added the durable items found in SI to the rest of the game. Those didn't appear after I switched his list.