Van Buren reference in Operation: Anchorage

Post » Fri May 27, 2011 4:50 am

An American Intelligence Report in FO3:OA includes this text:

High importance, be advised. Eyewitness account of Dragoon units outfitted in previously-unknown infantry armor. This armor appears to be a more recent prototype of the same HG stealth armor captured from enemy infiltrators at the Hoover Sabotage. Presence of Dragoon units suggest that General Jingwei may already have relocated to Anchorage. Stand by for confirmation of report.


HG obviously stands for Hei Gui, but it's not the only Van Buren reference - the Hoover Sabotage is a reference to an event mentioned in Van Buren's Hoover Dam design document:

This was a top secret research laboratory in the pre-war days. Its main purpose was genetic experimentations for military exploitation; i.e. making horrible abominations to not only terrorize the enemy, but also completely wreck ecosystems. The genetic mutations that would be created were specially designed to adapt to just about any ecology and take over, utterly wiping out anything else in its path. The reason why Hoover Dam was chosen was because there were several creatures in the area that seemed to be results of genetic mutations. Certain areas of the Hoover Dam Lake seemed higher in radioactive isotopes than other areas, which might have been the reason for the mutations. However, no matter the reason, it was considered a good place to start and further the process with a secret lab.

Using similar technology that the Master from FO1 eventually used for his twisted purposes (he stumbled across the research in top secret computer archives), scientists made several specimens that grew to full size. However, shortly before the big war started, a Chinese infiltration and sabotage team discovered the secret laboratory and tried to destroy Hoover Dam so the genetic work could never be used against them. Some of the Chinese stealth soldiers made it into S1C while others were planting bombs in the main generator rooms (now called the Scum Pits). One of the bombs went off prematurely and alerted all of Hoover Dam, including the guards in S1C. Things become cloudy in the reports due to the chaos that ensued, but suffice it to say that the Chinese were defeated, the generators were heavily damaged, and S1C was compromised. During the heated battle in S1C, several genetically altered creatures escaped into the halls. The guard in the guard post was ordered to leave and seal the exit hatch if ever such an emergency happened, and the guard followed orders well. A couple of Chinese stealth solders and four scientists were trapped in S1C after the hatch was sealed, doomed to either die at the hands, or weapons, of the enemy, be consumed by the escaped genetic creatures, or just die of starvation (let's face it, eating a genetic mutation is just gross ? the meat is far too stringy).

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lexy
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 1:43 pm

So is Van Buren officially canon now? :)
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Oyuki Manson Lavey
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 4:01 pm

Use of genetically engineered invasive/destructive animal species as a bio-weapon was mentioned in one of the Citadel computers as well, emphasizing the genetic "killswitch" to dispose of them.
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Alexandra Louise Taylor
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 1:13 pm

So is Van Buren officially canon now? :)

Not unless beth says so, though this would imply that Beth liked what would have been included in Van Buren.
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brandon frier
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:36 am

At least some elements of Van Buren are canon now, though.
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Rhiannon Jones
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 2:41 pm

They're treating Van Buren the same way they've treated Tactics: They don't come out and say "it's canon," but instead sprinkle FO3 liberally with bits and pieces of the two for dedicated fans to find. Most of it you'll find on computers or in dialogue choices.
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Reven Lord
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 4:47 am

I would wager that Van Buren isn't considered canon, but Bethesda is taking elements that they liked from Van Buren and canonizing them. Tactics doesn't seem to be "canon" either, just the fact that there is a splinter group of the Brotherhood around Chicago.
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Marguerite Dabrin
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 2:18 am

Tactics doesn't seem to be "canon" either, just the fact that there is a splinter group of the Brotherhood around Chicago.


And the fact that they fought the remnants of the Master's super mutants there, some of which joined the Midwestern Brotherhood (the latter being mentioned in the official FO3 guide).
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Brad Johnson
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 1:46 am

Huh. I never ventured into this forum until just now and only did so because I got confused with the DLC/New layout out there, thought my mind was playin' tricks on me. Anyway, yeah I brought up the Hei Gui on a different thread and it got quickly passed over by the countless nublets who barely know what Fallout is much less Van Buren. Nice to see it getting it's own thread here, though by Ausir it's no surprise. ;)

I feel strangely conflicted about Bethesda using bits of Van Buren. On one hand it's really great to see some of those cryogenically frozen ideas brought back to life, but on the other hand it's almost even more heartbreaking. Like, you certainly don't want to see your ex lying dead in the street but it only feels slightly better when you see her/him walking down that street in the arms of somebody else (I kid, I kid, I...well, sort of). That doesn't do justice to what I was milling over in my head in the shower. What is it about the shower? Damn.

It's just....It's like Avellone and friends aren't allowed to go back to Van Buren because Bethesda says so yet I can be pretty damn certain Bethesda's never going to make Van Buren and I really don't think I'd want them to anyway. It's like they've got a $3000 bottle of Scotch above their bar and they'll let you look at it and while looking at it they concede that they never plan on opening it up for anybody.

I guess in a way that's better than them opening it up, dropping it and everybody watching in horror as it spills out onto the dirty basemant floor.
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Farrah Barry
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:30 am

Personally, I was never that convinced by the plot outline for Van Buren. Don't get me wrong, I didn't think it was bad, but a mad scientist wanting to use a nuclear satellite to cleanse the Earth just didn't seem as cool as the Master and his Supermutants or the remnants of the US government.

Of course, I'm sure if Van Buren had been finished and released it would have been a great game, and maybe it would have been "undeniably Fallout". But as a mere text description on some websites, it didn't seem that Fallout-ish. (Though the idea of cleansing the Earth was rather similar to the Enclave, I guess.)

However, what did really interest me about Van Buren were all the cool ideas for non-main-quest stuff, such as the Chinese hoover dam infiltration and the ability to build yourself a stealth suit.

To me, Bethesda's Fallout 3 seems more Fallout-ish (in terms of setting/plot), mainly because it is derivative rather than imaginative. The fact that it reuses the Enclave and the difficulties of obtaining water mean that it has an unmistakable Fallout stamp - the Enclave from Fallout 2, the water stuff from Fallout 1, the GECK from Fallout 2, etc etc. It means that even though it has changed from turn-based isometric game to real-time first person game it definately looks and feels like Fallout, and to me it is a believable third Fallout game.

Anyway, I'm cool with Van Buren elements being incorporated into Fallout 3. I thought Van Buren's specific minor little elements and background details were great, while the actual core main quest/plot didn't do much for me, so by combining with the story and setting of Fallout 3 it is the best of both worlds as far as I'm concerned. Or at the very least, "Fallout 2.5".
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Jennifer Munroe
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 12:32 pm

Unfortunately, Fallout 3 is not imaginative enough. It reuses too many Fallout 1 and 2 plot points and factions instead of introducing new ones.

And I liked Presper more than the Enclave, although less than the Master. And it definitely beats using the Enclave with pretty much the same plan again, instead of introducing a new threat.

(Though the idea of cleansing the Earth was rather similar to the Enclave, I guess.)


Well, the major difference being that he didn't want to do it for the same of genetic purity.
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Dina Boudreau
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 9:44 am

Ugh, the less said about the mad scientist crap that was going to be in Van Buren the better, *eye twitch*.
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Sabrina Steige
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:04 am

Ugh, the less said about the mad scientist crap that was going to be in Van Buren the better, *eye twitch*.


And disgruntled football players turned slavers.
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Amy Siebenhaar
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 2:02 pm

What's wrong with mad scientists? They're a staple of 1950s sci-fi. Presper was definitely less one-dimensional than the Enclave in Fallout 2, and more original than the Enclave being used YET AGAIN with the same basic plan in Fallout 3.
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rheanna bruining
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 4:51 pm

What's wrong with mad scientists? They're a staple of 1950s sci-fi. Presper was definitely less one-dimensional than the Enclave in Fallout 2, and more original than the Enclave being used YET AGAIN with the same basic plan in Fallout 3.


I second that. The Enclave? What's next, Master revived Dune-style?!
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Ashley Hill
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:10 pm

I hope Bethesda will make up new, interesting villains for Fallout 4 instead of rehashing old ones.
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Jeremy Kenney
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 8:59 am

What's wrong with mad scientists? They're a staple of 1950s sci-fi. Presper was definitely less one-dimensional than the Enclave in Fallout 2, and more original than the Enclave being used YET AGAIN with the same basic plan in Fallout 3.


After playing Final Fantasy VII and putting up with Hojo, I've had enough mad scientists in my RPGs.
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April
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:08 am

I hope Bethesda will make up new, interesting villains for Fallout 4 instead of rehashing old ones.


I think Fallout 3 was just a way for Bethesda to get their feet wet with the franchise. And including elements of F1 and F2 was a way to attract the old school Fallout players, and also introduce the Fallout world to players who never played the older games..
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Sista Sila
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:42 am

If anything, it's the old school fans that wanted new, creative stuff on the East Coast rather than a total rehash of what they already know.
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courtnay
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:39 am

Ha! This is awesome.

As far as implementing ideas outside the Bethesda office, they could do much, MUCH worse than Van Buren's design docs. :)

I rarely say this. Good Job, Bethesda! Now USE MORE.

Dogtown, The Nursury, and The Reservation come to mind...

Though I suppose transplanting the Reservation to the East Coast would make no sense... But that's never stopped Beth before. :shrug:
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Kayla Oatney
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 1:35 pm

Looks like The Pitt continues the tendency of lifting ideas from Van Buren docs:

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Trogs
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Grace Francis
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:39 am

lol....kinda makes me wish they would just gather the old BIS crew and let them finish VB....

*sigh* one can dream....
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Romy Welsch
 
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