This may sound like an odd request, but I'm looking for a tool that postposenes or delays the start of certain "large" quests or mods. The functionality might even be in Wrye Bash, where a mod doesn't load until the player reaches a certain level or even a random level.

Before anyone answers, I assure you I know *this* answer:

"Why don't you just disable the mod, then enable it when you're ready for the quest?"

Two reasons, actually. First, I'm going to run pretty close to the 254 limit and enabling a mod later in the game would require disabling another one whose resources might have already loaded ... yeah. Second, I'm hoping to inclue a sense of "randomness" to the game.

I know there are mods to delay quests - actually, I know of two: the Tears of the Fiend delayer (Thank heavens! I go sooo tired of fighting that guy right out of the sewers) and the Gates of Aesgaard 2 delayer (until GoA 1 is done).

In particular I'm looking for a way to delay the mods that start immediately upon the game loading - The Lost Spires, maybe - I could just ignore that one - but mainly Windfall. Egghh. If I have to walk into the IC Marketplace and have that kid approach me - right out prison and stinking of the sewers (me, not him) - to find his dad ... and with no option of exiting the conversation.

This may not be possible, and that's fine, but I thought I'd ask and see if anyone had any creative ideas.

~ Dani ~

If there was a tool, do you have a spare esp slot for it? Especially if it requires one for each delayed mod!

I'm not sure whether just using StopQuest from the console would have any ill effects - using StartQuest to restore it when you're ready. Of course you'd have to know the internal names of all the quests, and nothing would automatically start them again if you forget.

But may I highjack slightly and open up the question of what's an acceptable way to start a mod's quests? Apparently you don't like to be force-greeted by quest-givers, but is that just at the beginning or would it be OK for a follow-up quest after you've done the first, or after you enter a specific interior cell that's obviously related to the mod, or perform some act (like murder someone for the DB)?

Most quest mods you delay by not doing whatever triggers it to begin, so you don't go into the Fighters' Guild if you don't want to join. Or don't pick that up, or talk to that NPC, whatever. How much do you want those to be obvious, and how much do you prefer to be surprised? E.g. If a book triggers the start of a quest, do you want it labelled something like "Mysterious Tome" that hints of a quest behind it, or "Arandel's diary" that could just be background?

'Delayer Patches' looks to be useful. tesnexus search delay

Fortunately, a delayer only needs to change the starting script of a mod, and that can be merged into the Bashed Patch, so it doesn't need an active esp (I know, because I made the TotF Delayer).

To me, it is a problem that StartQuest is very far from an immersive way to start a quest...


Personally, I would want quest mods to add their quests in an immersive way. I do not want a note in my face when I install it (or start a new game), but I want a relatively easy way to get the mod started.

Windfall is a good example: Enter the IC Market District, and an NPC will soon come and ask you for help. TotF is another good example, that a strong enemy attacks you when you sleep, but stops when you successfully fight back, and tells you a story - or it would be good if the enemy waited with the attack until you were strong enough to survive (which is what my delayer does).

I understand that makers of quest mods want people to easily start their quests, but a popup right in the face after installation is no good. Rather, they should include a readme telling how to easily start the mod for those who want it started right away.

Btw, making it so hard to start the mod that you would never do it unless you read how in the readme is not very good either. Ivellon does this, IMHO. There, you must sneak into some special room in the Bruma castle and steal a special book, in order to start it. My characters would never ever do this by themselves, and it feel weird to do this when playing a good character.

And you've stated the problem ... nicely (if you can excuse the pun). I think many quests are designed to be activated, then deactiveated - or added to an existing load order and, bam, you're in the quest. This is done, I assume, to satisfy thoese who load the mod, look around for five minutes, then come to the forums to ask: "How do I start this quest?"

I think one of the most creative, immersive and well-designed starts is Erwin's The Aylied Steps. It's just there until you're ready. And I don't mind Pellew's sudden and aggressive entrance into my life - I just prefer it to be a bit random.

Which brings me to chance "re-hijack" my own thread. TheNiceOne, can you teach me how to make these patches and how to make them merge into the Bashed Patch? I'm willing to make the patches and even post them somewhere if anyone wants them.

Thanks.

~ Dani ~

Unfortunately this doesn't really work for some (but not all. Luckily not all!) players.

Most asked question regarding Integration (well, aside from the requirement question) is "where does it start?" ... as I stopped counting it had long breached the 1000x mark. And that was like a year ago.

Not only is this mentioned several times in the readme, in the FAQ, in a spoiler file, there's a lot of of ingame clues, no, the important NPC to speak to is just outside the IC market district and stands out like a bright yellow exclamation mark. At first I considered giving her normal clothes... glad I didn't .

There is one for Lost Spires, in the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25946 - you have to stumble across the Archaeology building to start it.
I think the only one I still have running that has the annoying message on game start is Seavview Castle.

The technicalities is quite simple:
1. Take backup of the original mod
2. Open the mod in the CS.
3. Edit the script that starts the quest and change it to what you want.
4. Save the mod
5. Open the mod in TES4Edit
6. In TES4Edit, right-click on the script you changed in step 3, and select "Copy as override" (or something like that, I'm writing from memory).
7. In the popup, select "As new file" (or something like that)
8. Write the name of the new mod and confirm that it will have the original esp as master.
9. Close TES4Edit and save the new mod.
10. Restore the backup of the original mod.

Steps 3 and 6 are the two important ones. In step 3 you change the script to something more immersive, and in step 6 you create a patch mod that contains the changed script only. Since the changed script is already defined in another active mod, and the patch mod has no new records, it will automatically be recognized as mergeable by Wrye Bash. Of course, changing the script in step 3 may be easy or difficult, depending on you well you know modding and how advanced you want to do it.

Okay, so I examined the script you added to make the delayer for the Tears of the Fiend script. Using this as an example, for I am a complete newbie to scripting, here is what I came up with:

Yours:

Begin GameModeset dHasCheckedStart to 0if dResetStartLevel != 7	set dStartMinLevel to 15	set dStartMaxLevel to 20	set dStartChanceIncrease to 4	set dResetStartLevel to 7	set dStartLevel to 0endif

Mine, to delay Windfall:

Begin GameModeset dHasCheckedStart to 0if dResetStartLevel != 7	set dStartMinLevel to 12	set dStartMaxLevel to 30	set dStartChanceIncrease to 4	set dResetStartLevel to 7	set dStartLevel to 0endif

Basically, if I've done this right, that there is a chance that the quest will start when the player is level 12. I left the other numbers the same, for I'm not sure what the dResetStartLevel is. Sorry I'm so new to this, but you can tell me if I have it right? And if it is right, then it works like this: the first time the computer receives a yes answer to the script (= 1) then Jude should appear in the IC Market and wait until I arrive ... or does the test run when I enter the Market? Or do I really care?

Thanks.

~ Dani ~

I think you're making it more complicated than it needs to be.
Assuming you are using OBSE, the code below is easier to work with.

short levelshort doOnceBegin GameMode	if doOnce == 0		set level to rand 12 30		set doOnce to 1	endif	if player.GetLevel < Level		return	endifrest of script....

My .02

Very nice! Windfall is fixed!! Your code is actually different than The Nice One's - meaning it actually does something different - but yours is closer to what I was hoping to accomplish. Bascially it picks a random number between 12 and 30 - and when the player reaches that level, the quest starts? Sweet!!

Thanks for teaching me that. Using this, I can basically make most, if not all, of my quests completely random, and each gameplay different. For example, by adding this to the beginning of the Mehrunes Razor, I can have the "text box" randomly appear only after I reach a certain random level. It's not a perfect solution; a better solution would be to have a random level assigned AND a cell location, so that when the first condition is met (player reaches level x), she has to enter a certain cell for the "text box" to appear. That way I could make the experience more immersive and each each gameplay different.

~ Dani ~

Settng the cell location is just as easy, but you need to know the cell name or a named reference to do the check. Typically a mapmarker ref.

What I've done in some cases (my Vilja delayer for example) is add a xxxxxx.GetDistance Player < YYYY.

short levelshort doOnceBegin GameMode	if doOnce == 0		set level to rand 12 30		set doOnce to 1	endif	if player.GetLevel < Level || xmarkerref.GetDistance Player > 6400		return	endifrest of script....

As long as you are less than level or more than 6400 from xmarkerref the script won't progress any further.
And you could even make the distance test random as well with another rand var.
The 64 unit is about a yard. (21.3 units = 1 foot.)

My TotF delayer patch is (as you have noticed by now), a bit more complex than the usual delayer needs to be. It doesn't only pick a semi-random level, but also picks a random numbers of sleep needed before the quest starts. I didn't want to know that I would be attacked the first time I sleep after a levelup - or be immune until the next levelup, I wanted the attack to come as a big surprise even to me who wrote the script. But a complexity like that is usually not needed.

Oh ... I hadn't noticed that. Nice touch - and I just learned a little more about scripting.

Aellis' code worked great with one small problem. While it delays the start of the quest until a random level - and is therefore useful for things like pop-up windows, for mods like Windfall and RTT, it delays the mod but the characters - Jude and Ruined-Tail - are still placed in-world from the beginning. So until the quest starts, Ruined-Tail is a permanent part of the Arena cell and Jude is stuck standing in the middle of the IC Market.

Would I use a disable/enable command to make them disappear and/or reappear? I'd have to be careful here for fear of screwing up the rest of the quest, but using the script above I could have the game:

1. Run the script above, picking a random level to start the quest, then ...
2. When I reached that level, the script would insert Jude/Runed-Tail into the game.
3. The rest of the script continues as normal ...

EDIT:

So I spent some time on the Construction Set Wiki reading about scripts. This is what I came up with for my Windfall/RTT delayer:

short levelshort doOnceshort disableshort enableBegin GameMode"Ruined-Tale (or object id)" disableif doOnce == 0	set level to rand 15 35	set doOnce to 1endifif player.GetLevel < Level	returnendif"Ruined-Tale (or object id)" enable.... rest of script

So what this should do is this: disable Ruined-Tale in-world, then pick a level to start. When I reach that level, Ruined-Tale is enabled or re-inserted into the world. Correct?

~ Dani ~

You will probably need to disable such quest-start NPCs yes. For the Windfall quest (having played the start, but not checked the script) I guess it is smart to insert a .Disable inside the do_once part of your delayer, and that is really all you need to delay the mod, as the first quest doesn't start until you speak to him.

Both RTT and Windfall place the NPCs in-world from the start of the game. I checked this with the CS. In both cases, the character approaches you (not you approaching the character) - RT when you get within a certain distance (600) and Jude Thadius when you enter the Market Distict - so the quest starts whether you want it or not. So both would need to be diabled for the best benefit of this delay. So ... two questions:

Question 1: Do I disable the parent (ZZRUINCompanionRuin) or the reference (ZZRuinRef01)? I'm guessing the reference, since that would be the "calling object"? So, with sytanx and everything, it would be like this:

short levelshort doOnceshort disableBegin GameModeif doOnce == 0	ZZRuinRef01.disable	set level to rand 15 35	set doOnce to 1endifif player.GetLevel < Level	returnendif.... rest of script

Question 2: How does the disabled reference get back in the game? Don't I need an enable command?

~ Dani ~

The reference is the one that is placed in the world, and therefore needs to be updated, yes.


True. I would probably change your script to something like:

short levelshort questEnablingBegin GameModeif questEnabling == 0	ZZRuinRef01.disable	set level to rand 15 35	set questEnabling to 1endifif questEnabling == 1		if player.GetLevel < Level		return	 endif	set questEnabling to 2	ZZRuinRef01.enablereturn.... rest of script

Note that I have changed doOnce to a meaningful name. Calling a variable doOnce is really bad practice. And note that disable isn't a variable, but a function, just like enable.

Thank you very much for this. Unfortunately, it didn't work. I added the 'endif" for "if questEnabling == 1" under return (the CS caught that), but when I run the game, the NPC's are not removed. I've checked the reference ids to make sure I've got them right. Other than that, the code is exactly the same.

Do I need to add:

short disable
short enable

... at the top?

Thanks again for your help.

~ Dani ~

The Vilja mod includes its own quest-delayer, and if delayer patches are used together with her, this might have unwanted effects. If you are running an outdated version of the mod (probably ver 1), you can find ver 2.2 in the link in my signature.

I have specifically stated in the readme and http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=28977&tab=6&navtag=/modules/comments/index2.php?tid=172080|:|fid=28977 that no quest delayers should be used together with the mod.

Sigh. Okay, I've tried everything I can think of to fix this script and it just doesn't work. This is what happens:

With the script added the way TheNiceOne wrote it, I enter the Arena District or the Market District and the NPC does not approach. (So that part works.) However, they're still there - no matter what I change on the script, within reason, of course.

I've tried:

- adding Short Disable/Enable at the top (but if they're not variables then that's not right, right?)
- adding endif to the end, right under return (I need to add the endif becasue there's an if at "if questEnabling == 1")
- replacing the "return" with "endif"

I've checked:

- to make sure I'm using the correct reference (but the script wouldn't save if I was using an incorrect reference, would it? I'd get an error ...)
- to make sure the syntax is correct: WFIQJudeRef.disable

I've read:
- the disable/enable articles on The Construction Set Wiki in the scripting portal.

I'm not sure why it isn't working but if anyone has suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

~ Dani ~

Are you loading a saved game perhaps? If so, you probably need to make a clean save before enabling your patch.

edit:
just had a thought...
Open the CS, right click on the NPC in the Object window and select Use Info. Maybe there is a different script that enables them.
Don't know, just reachin'...

And that was it. WooHoo!!! It works. What a great feeling, after spending four HOURS trying to fix that problem. But it works now and works like it should.

This is my final Windfall script:

short levelshort questEnablingshort disableshort enableBegin GameModeif questEnabling == 0	WFIQJudeRef.disable	set level to rand 5 22	set questEnabling to 1endifif questEnabling == 1		if player.GetLevel < Level		return	 endif	set questEnabling to 2	WFIQJudeRef.enableendif

I'm not sure if I need "short enable" or "short disable" up top, but it works right now. If they don't need to be there, someone please tell me and I'll clean it up. Currently, it's set to return a level between 5 and 22. Before then, Jude's nowhere to be seen.

Thanks to Aellis and TheNiceOne for their patience and help!

Edit: Just tested the Ruined-Tail's Tale delayer without the "short disable" and "short enable" and it works perfect. Just an FYI.

~ Dani ~

Congrats Dani. :celebration: :icecream:

I'd like to officially promote you from "User" to "Modder". Welcome to our ranks! :goodjob:

You don't need the short vars for enable / disable. You can lose them.

I like that approach, but in Ivellon's case it's a bit too extreme. The only time I stumbled upon the Ivellon quest line was when my thief broke into the basemant of the woman in Chorrol who writes the guide books.

Woha! That's way too high level for Windfall. Windfall is a perfect mod for low level characters and once at Windfall there is no incentive to leave before completing the mod's main quest. Playing it at level 10+ will be too easy and spoil the fun, IMO.
So I'd rather choose lvl 2-3 and/or a couple of points of Fame (I think doing some of the easy starting quests in the IC will give you fame, but I could be wrong) before Jude approaches you.