Any idea if the NoM compatibility patch still works for the new NoM 3.0?

Edit: Hang on, I'll ask in the NoM thread instead. Need to know it for UL too.

@Leonardo
I'd definitely be interested in how that Installer is built. In my opinion, RoHT's installation/uninstallation already is quite easy (there's only one uniquely named subfolder each in the Icons, Meshes, and Textures folder), but I'm of course biased here. I have also just checked RoHT's archive in Mash's Installer Tab, and most of it seemed to work. It complained that the Readme files were not located in a separate "Docs" directory (which I dislike as I prefer to have my Readmes right next to the actual mod), and it didn't understand how to use the addons and patches.
If you can make an installer that makes Mash accept RoHT's archive, you're very welcome to do so. As it looks right now, it'll most likely also be compatible with the upcoming version 1.5.
By the way: http://www.fliggerty.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=3217. :whisper:

@Povuholo
I have no idea if RoHT's NoM Addon still works with NoM v3. It only exchanges the bottles and kegstands in accordance with NoM v2's Compatibility Pack FAQ. If Taddeus left those objects and the NoM_well_water script intact, the addon should work with the new NoM version, especially since the addon only touches Cells added by RoHT. I just haven't taken the time to check it yet: I'll try to have a look sometime this weekend.

B

This installer is very similar to BAIN in Wrye Bash and there is an explanation in the installers readme where all the mod files is located.
How it's work is also described in a separate readme. :read:

Your prays has been answered, because I've actually placed the both readmes and quest tree docs in the same folder with the "RoHT.esm".
The addons and patches is placed in a separate folder.

It's rather simple to use patch or addons for that matter, when you select this package in Wrye Mash the only thing you need to do is this.

Just tick the box "00", "RoHT.esm" and tick the next box "01" to select which patches or addons you need to be installed.
After that just right click on this package to select "Install" and you're done with that mod installation.
It's so easy once you have learned it.

The installer will be compatible with any further version of RoHT mod in the future. :user:

Thanks for that link bhl.

Probably, yet it still sounds like Bohemian villages to me. Maybe I'm growing old. :turtle: I'm using Mash convert esp to esm and vice versa, update master files, redate files, or clean my savegame, but I've never really looked at the Installers tab before. My mod list started growing and developing when Mash's most recent version was 0.48 or so - well before Wrye ported Bain over to Morrowind. I'm still installing mods the oldfashioned way: extract archive, copy files by hand, curse if the mod distributes its files over dozens of folders while using the same resources as 20 other mods, enable the .esp file, and enjoy.
I have to admit that using Bain sounds a lot easier, and I think I'll give it a go in the foreseeable future. Thanks for making that installer, and be sure to post a link when it's available for download!

B

Yeah, you're not alone with that feeling in fact you can image quite well, what was my first expression about using the bain feature the first time this summer. :wacko: It so embarrassing if you don't know how. :facepalm:

Since then I've learn a lot about mod installation just by using that excellent feature. :whistling:

My concept is this, since the released of Melchor's excellent http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1106095-wrye-mash-stand-alone/, which have an utilities tab where you can launch any tool from that tab and maybe this package installer could worked too. I think this idea could be achieved in the future.

RoHT v1.41 - Package Installer


I've contacted bhl and made him an offer. He has accepted my offer to a new installation feature of the RoHT v1.41 mod.
I called it RoHT v1.41 - Package Installer and this mod package was made by me. :user:

There is a readme in tree different formats (html, odm, pdf) included in the archive. :read:


http://www.fliggerty.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=3538



EDIT: Since I had trouble to login at GHF-forum I've decided to temporary remove the link. I will put it back once I can login again.

EDIT: It was only temporary failure and it's now fix so the link is back again.

---

I know what you're working on right now, so I would ask if you can take a look of my http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1127716-which-mod-is-preventing-ajira-to-talk/ I had and that was quite annoying. :confused:

As you can see I solved that issue thanks to Elaura, but I can't get rid of that script without the console even if I uninstalled RoHT. :shrug:
Is it possible to *deactive* that script through a scripted criteria until the player really start the questline of RoHT mod?


Thanks in advance.

To my knowledge, there's no way to deactivate a (local) script, those things are even immune to the StopScript command. The only possibility would be to create a mod that contains a blank script with the same name. Like this:

begin RoHT_MG_Balmora_Disabler_Scriptend

But I don't understand how the script could affect Ajira's dialogue in the first place: it isn't even attached to her. It's attached to an invisible activator and only disables the Mages Guild members when House Telvanni's mercenaries take over the guild houses. Here's the script in question:

begin RoHT_MG_Balmora_Disabler_Script; global RoHT_MGIsDestroyed; This variable is set by RoHT_advisor in the dialogue topic "eliminate the Guild"; 0 = the Mages Guild is alive; 1 = the Mages Guild has been destroyed; 2 = reserved for future use, e. g. for a reconstruction of the Guild houses in Caldera, Vivec and Sadrith Morashort DoOnceif ( DoOnce == 0 )	if ( RoHT_MGIsDestroyed == 1 )		"estirdalin"->disable		"marayn dren"->disable		"galbedir"->disable		"ranis athrys"->disable		"ajira"->disable		"masalinie merian"->disable		; Sharn-gra-Muzgob is part of Morrowind's main quest.		; I have added a dialogue patch to both the Telvanni mercenaries in Balmora and RoHT_NeralSarodan, the Telvanni Councilor to Balmora.		"sharn gra-muzgob"->disable	endifendifend

Ajira herself is not directly altered by RoHT in any way: I haven't touched her NPC-specific dialogue nor have I attached a script to her. The only situation where RoHT will disable her Voice Greeting - and that of any other NPCs as well - is when the player is wearing the Masque of Namira. Are you wearing that mask? If you aren't, please talk to Ajira. If she greets you with

something went wrong, and RoHT is responsible for her silence. In any other case I suspect an other mod to be the cause.

Thanks for your reply bhl.


I may do just that. Thanks for the tip.


I'm not wearing that Masque of Namira and not a member of the Great House of Telvanni yet. The other NPC's has a voice greeting but not Ajira.

It's not Ajira's dialogue only her talking is disabled, while the rest of the members is greeting me mostly and that's happen very early in my game play. I hadn't even leveled up with my character so I'm still at lvl 1. To be honest I don't get it what might cause this.

I suspect that some mod changes the Voice Greeting for Ajira (or for Class=..., Race=..., Rank=..., whatever). You could try to load all your mods into the CS without setting any of them active and scan the dialogue section "Voice->Hello" for changes to Ajira. Maybe this way you'll find out what dialogue causes the trouble. If that doesn't help, I'm afraid that you're left with the binary mod exclusion method... not very pleasant, but hopefully reliable. :brokencomputer: If you try overwriting the RoHT_MG_Balmora_Disabler_Script, please tell me if that helped.


@all: Work on RoHT v1.5 (final) has begun
Yes, I have finally begun to actually work a bit on RoHT's next update, v1.5. It will contain a few bug fixes and an additional NoM v3 addon - more about it in a minute. Those things would hardly justify a 0.1 increase in version number. However, I'm preparing to take a break from Morrowind from which I may not return, and 1.42 is an awkward version number for a final release... I'll stay around long enough to finish this, and I'll keep my promises to other modders in helping them with their mods, but if you've encountered a bug in RoHT that hasn't been reported yet, now's the time to report it!

So, about RoHT and Necessities of Morrowind: I just had a look at how the two mods work together and have found them to be compatible as they are. You don't need to change a thing. So why do I plan to make a RoHT-NoM v3-Addon? Because I found two oddities in Tel Dwemeris. First, there are a couple of water barrels in its basemant/machine room. In NoM v2, those barrels were closed, so you could pretend that they were full of water, yet unopened. In NoM v3, they're open, so it seems odd to get water out of them while they look completely dry. I'll add some water surfaces to them. And in the assistants' quarters, there's a wine kegstand. When you take some wine from it, a MessageBox will state that the publican comes over and takes 3 septims for the wine. That's new with NoM v3. V2 only featured free wine kegs, and I intend to make this one free again, so I'll exchange this NOM_kegstand_wine_de for a NOM_kegstand_wine_de_f. Both are merely cosmetic changes. I'll make this a separate addon, so that those players who wish to continue using NoM v2 or who are forced to do so, because their savegame refuses to make the NoM update, can do so.

Rise of House Telvanni is a masterpiece and some of the most fun I've ever had playing Morrowind. I look forward to your capstone version with any final changes.

Enjoy your break when you're done, but don't forget what a great impact you've had!

Hear hear.

Hi bhl.

First, let me echo the thanks and praise of others for this great mod.

This probably does not qualify as a bug, but I thought I'd mention it in case it is anything to worry about. Whenever I visit Tel Fyr (exterior), save, and then subsequently "repair all" my save with Wrye Mash, Mash reports an ambiguous reference in the savegame (something to do with a portal). The mod ref numbers reported include RoHT. I've observed no ill effects - just that oddity with repairing my saves.

Thanks NMZMaster, Dragon32, and Macready.


You know, I've been reading and pondering about this exact situation the day before yesterday. The reason is that RoHT adds a couple of activators - the Nueranar portal - to Tel Fyr's exterior Cell, and those activators aren't set to "References Persist". When I wrote RoHT, I didn't set that switch, because those activators are all using local scripts, and none of them is referenced in another script or dialogue. Unfortunately, not setting the switch will cause Reference hurly-burly in your savegame. Ieldra explains this game engine bug in detail in his/her (?) http://abot.silgrad.com/guppy/file/articles/BadRefDebuggingGuide.html. Section 7.3 is of particular interest:


In short: when you put a script on an object and don't set "References Persist" on that object, you're going to experience the No Master/Doubled Ref situation. To fix it, renumber your mod's references, or set those objects to "References Persist". I was this close to actually do that when I read http://lovkullen.net/Emma/COM_conflicts.htm concerning the same thing.


After reading that, I decided that RoHT will be better off as it is. I certainly don't want to provoke crashes with RoHT by setting objects to "References Persist" when they're working without.

This is interesting and I wonder if you gonna to reduce the effect of the game engine bug in the next version of RoHT mod?

No - deliberately no. Let's see what would happen if I'd set all activators to "References Persist":


So RoHT's persistent references would be lost, and RoHT could break and maybe even crash Morrowind along the way. I consider that counterproductive. Today, players already need to renumber their mods' references in order to avoid reference doubling/loss, so there's no point in deteriorating RoHT's chances to overcome mod conflicts unharmed. And that's my reason for leaving RoHT's object definitions unchanged.

Yes, why not.


That's understandable with arguments like this. :nod:

I've been rather quiet for a month, but I used that time to work on RoHT. And with this new enjoyable Forum optics (hooray for the IP.Board skin), it's a pleasure to update you on RoHT v1.5's latest progress. There are hardly any new features, but I've polished the entire mod a lot more.

What's done:

• Set "Illegal to rest here" (interior Cell setup) for the new towers
  
• Applied ownership to beds
  
• Proofread all dialogue, books, and Script MessageBoxes again, paying special attention to puncuation - Done
  
• Changed a lot of dialogue to American spelling where I considered it appropriate
  
• Edited the topic "Belatrinde" to make Dhaunayne's history a bit more plausible
  
• Edited the topic "slavery": I removed the innuendo to Sadrith Mora's Grand Slave Market. That's history since v1.25
  
• Edited the topic "Twin Lamps movement": I added brackets around the ellipse response: "[...]" Hopefully nobody will overlook it now.
  
• Slightly edited the Journal entries for Zafirbel's star. I'm not going to put the star on Chirsaedo, but I hope that the altered Journal entry will make players search Pergamaea before opening the CS. Yeah, I know: it's probably useless, and the Star will remain RoHT's equivalent of the Dwemer puzzle box, but what the heck...
  
• Added a MessageBox to the script on the door in Endalos' tower for the same reason - don't give up immediately, but search the area.
  
• Added optional dialogue to discredit Orvas Dren in the RoHT_CoupDEtat quest when Orvas is already dead at the beginning of the quest. (22 dialogue entries)
  
• Elaborated on the topic "Tel Aruhn" to account for Zubadaiah taking over the tower and for Savile Imayn to stop selling slaves and training servants, instead.
  
• Added internal patches for the following Morrowind quests: HH_LiteracyCampaign, HH_TwinLamps1, HH_TwinLamps3, and IL_MaidenToken. As nobody has reported those issues after one year, it's probably safe to assume that no Archmagister is still playing those quests, but if you happen to be the first who does, you can do it now. In all those cases, you need to have started the quest before Ilmeni Dren becomes Duchess. I considered it inappropriate for a Duchess to give out that kind of quest, but she will at least let you finish them.
  
• elaborated on the following topics for better immersion and integration of RoHT: bureaucracy, challenges, East Empire Company, Ebonheart, Ethal Seloth, Idroso Vendu, Imperial Guard, latest rumors, maiden's token, Morrowind lore, my glove, Orvas Dren, people cannot read, politics and religion, Rogue Telvanni, setting the prices, slavery, someone in particular, specific place, Varus Vantinius, Vedam Dren. Also elaborated on Greeting 9 and the Journal topic IL_MaidenToken.
  
• Repaired the scripts on the doors to the Oubliette and the Ramoran Ancestral Tomb. Now you can enter as often as you like.
  
• Cleaned "stolen goods" from Mournhold's prison. Hopefully that was the last remaining dirty entry.
  
• Fixed a couple minor visual lapses, e.g. rotated the Dwemer bot parts in Tel Dwemeris' manor to lie properly on the lab tables.
  
• Checked all scripts and Result Boxes for potentially critical scripting style. I put IDs in quotes but not variables, and I checked for other well-known problems as well (spacing, commas, ...). Wrote all instances of "player" in lower case and quotation marks as that's the ID in the CS. I haven't had any reports of malfunctioning scripts, but I prefer to be safe than sorry in this case.
  
• Set "References Persist" on every object that is referenced in a script. It's amazing how many of those I forgot. Those objects were: RoHT_BattleAxe_Tjalk, RoHT_Belatrinde_Signet_Ring, RoHT_bk_dbLedger, RoHT_bk_dbODrenReceipt, RoHT_bk_dbTherana_contract, RoHT_bk_dbTherana_framework, RoHT_bk_Mushroom_Hold, RoHT_bk_Ocato_01, RoHT_bk_OntheMushroomGrowth, RoHT_Dhaunayne_Signet_Ring, RoHT_Dwemer_Ingot, RoHT_Dwemer_Tool, RoHT_Edwinna_coherer, RoHT_Endalos_Mask, RoHT_Endalos_Signet_Ring, RoHT_key_Alighiere_1, RoHT_key_Alighiere_2, RoHT_key_Alighiere_3, RoHT_key_Alighiere_4, RoHT_key_SimineFralinie, RoHT_MasqueOfNamira, RoHT_pot_sedative, RoHT_Potion_Growth, RoHT_Potion_Zub_RH, RoHT_RanosPoison, RoHT_sc_Alighiere_Hint_1, RoHT_sc_Apology_Eddie, RoHT_sc_Apology_Llovyn, RoHT_sc_Draft_Contract, RoHT_sc_Stoh-Gei, RoHT_StaffOfChanneling, RoHT_Star_Nueranar
  
• Updated the quest tree
  
• Updated the Modders' Readme file
  
• Edit 2010/12/08: Added a small integrated patch for the Great House Dagoth mod by The Mad God: I set RoHT's unique 6th House creatures in Telasero to peaceful when the player has begun the metamorphosis process.
  
• Edit 2010/12/16: Fixed the implementation for cdc_teleportation (CDCooley's or Melian's teleport mods). RoHT's appurtenant script was completely malfunctioning.
  
• Edit 2010/12/16: Applied Taddeus' Water Level fix to RoHT's interiors
  
• Edit 2010/12/16: Made an Addon for Necessities of Morrowind (NoM) v3.

What still needs to be done

• Update the Readme file
  
• Help update mlox' entries for RoHT. There semms to be some confusion about the GDR Aleft addon and the Nev TLSH addon.

Finally, I'd like to hear your opinion on something: as you know from reading a couple of posts back, http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1100327-relz-pozzos-rise-of-house-telvanni-v14/page__view__findpost__p__16424191. He has offered to do the same for every new RoHT release, and I know that I can rely on him for doing a great job. However, he got me thinking if I should get up to date and make RoHT BAIN-compatible in the first place. So my questions to you are: Do you use BAIN? Would you like to have RoHT BAIN-compatible, or do you prefer its current folder structure?

I'm fine with the way RoHT is packaged now, but I don't use bain. As long as making it bain compatible doesn't make it much more difficult for people to install it manually as before I'm not against it.

Thank you, povuholo!

It won't be much more difficult. Here's a brief overview of how BAIN works:
In general, BAIN can only handle simple folder structures, i.e.:
.esp file
\Bookart\PossibleSubfolder\*.*
\Icons\PossibleSubfolder\*.*
\Meshes\PossibleSubfolder\*.*
\Music\PossibleSubfolder\*.*
\Sound\PossibleSubfolder\*.*
\Textures\PossibleSubfolder\*.*

A mod needn't contain all those folders, and BAIN is also lenient about the position of the ReadMe file, although it would prefer to put it in a "\Docs" folder. BAIN is also capable to accept that folder structure inside another folder, e.g.
\Data Files\.esp file
\Data Files\Bookart\PossibleSubfolder\*.*
...

Obviously, RoHT busts that structure by featuring an "Addons & Patches" folder. In consequence, BAIN will detect the main file ("Rise of House Telvanni.esm"), but it will overlook the addons.
To make BAIN acknowledge the addons, it'd be necessary to restructure RoHT's archive file. BAIN accepts multiple mods in one archive file, so if I restructured RoHT's archive like this:
\Base mod\Rise of House Telvanni.esm
\Base mod\Icons\*.*
...
\Patches and Addons\RoHT CoM Addon.esp
...
it could be installed with BAIN.

Basically, that's one additional mouse-click to get to RoHT's .esm file. So: any more opinions on having RoHT BAIN-compatible?

And still: Is anybody willing and able to test either the cdc_teleportation fix (you need to be running either CDCooley's or Melian's teleport mod) or the Great House Dagoth Fix (you need to have at least started the GHD metamorphosis for this)?

I wouldn't call it http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/952489-relz-bain-for-mash/ instead I prefer to call it Mod Package Installer (MPI), because it was first introduced to Oblivion with Wrye Bash but later on converted to Wrye Mash. IMO I find the name *BAIN-MW* or *MAIN* rather little silly so that's why I call it MPI instead.

However, I do know that many Morrowind players/modders also play Oblivion so I can accept the BAIN (Oblivion:Acronyms) http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/Bain#Complex_Packages just to avoid confusing for both Morrowind and Oblivion players. :wink_smile:

That mod package installer I created an earlier is not a BAIN-friendly package, but it's a complex archive and have the same behavior as you're familiar with OB-mods.


I will continue to make it BAIN compatible for any version or updates there is available for the RoHT mod as long the permission from bhl is valid. :yes:

My permission is valid, and it remains valid. I know that you did a good job for RoHT v1.41, and I'm sure that you'll do the same for future versions. I know that you are very capable of restructuring RoHT's archive for use with BAIN, and I really appreciate what you've done. I'm just curious if the demand for a BAIN-compatible version is so high that it's worth that I restructure the archive and ditch the non-BAIN-compatible version altogether. If it is, we could stop the double releases and just have one version.

All these folders are already in the "00 RoHT required" folder and will never change so don't you worry about that.


Consider it done for the readme. :yes: I will have the readme for the archive alone outside of the mod. But where would you prefer to place the quest tree file? :unsure:

Any archive with the Data Files or folder there is greyed out in Wrye Mash, but you can still use the "Has Extra Directories" option though.
But should an archive has a two folders or more above any related mod files are located and Wrye Mash will not recognize it at all (totally greyed out).

Obviously, RoHT busts that structure by featuring an "Addons & Patches" folder. In consequence, BAIN will detect the main file ("Rise of House Telvanni.esm"), but it will overlook the addons.
To make BAIN acknowledge the addons, it'd be necessary to restructure RoHT's archive file. BAIN accepts multiple mods in one archive file, so if I restructured RoHT's archive like this:
\Base mod\Rise of House Telvanni.esm
\Base mod\Icons\*.*
...
\Patches and Addons\RoHT CoM Addon.esp
...
it could be installed with BAIN.

Basically, that's one additional mouse-click to get to RoHT's .esm file. So: any more opinions on having RoHT BAIN-compatible?

I think there is a little misunderstanding here, because Wrye Mash doesn't overlooked the Addons & Patches folder at all, instead you need to tick the box "Addons & Patches" and the patches itself before you're able to install any addons or patches you want. So first tick the main box and then the mod box to install that mod.

And still: Is anybody willing and able to test either the cdc_teleportation fix (you need to be running either CDCooley's or Melian's teleport mod) or the Great House Dagoth Fix (you need to have at least started the GHD metamorphosis for this)?

I'm afraid I can't test it right now, because my previous CPU is probably useless (yesterday) and I've spent the entirely day to build me a new one.
I hope someone else can help you out.


I will get to work with the BAIN-package archive as soon you have released the new RoHT version. :nod:

Thank you for your confidence and faith in me bhl. :touched:

I think there is a demand for a BAIN archive, because Wrye Mash has a feature called "Anneal" that allows you to uninstall any addon/patch very easy without the main mod is touched.
But you can also install missing mod files if you needed to. It's very convenient if you have just install a new mod which overwrites any files in the different mod and later on decide to remove it that newly installed mod. You can pack RoHT in any way you like with a description where you want the files be placed such as readme, screenshots and quest tree files in the BAIN archive. It's all I need to know. :deal:

If you want to learn more about BAIN structure and how it works just let me know.