Alright, thanks again!

Sorry if I'm taking up too much of your time, but I wanted to ask if there is any way, using the console or anything, to revive people that I have killed while playing v1.25 in a way that when I play v1.3, they won't be registered as dead, and I can do the quests as per normal without suffering consequences from v1.25?

Also, I have a sort of bug report about the "House Telvanni Grasps Power" and "Ilmeni Dren's Policy Changes" quests. IIRC, in v1.25, they cannot be "officially finished" due to the Journal Entries not having a "Finished" mark. By the way, do the Policy Changes change anything in-game after you get Ilmeni to do the changes?

Thanks a lot for your time, and best of luck on completing v1.3 and beyond!

You don't need to apologize for being curious.

Yes, there is. You can edit your savegame with the http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=52. Dead and altered NPCs are stored in the "NPCs Altered/Killed by Player" section. Deleting an NPC from that section should revive him. In theory, that is. I haven't actually tried it myself.


Ilmeni Dren's policy changes won't be part of v1.3 anymore. They have never been significantly more than a rough concept. If I remember correctly, the whole "quest" consisted of three global variables, six lines of dialogue and 1 script. Neither of those had any effect whatsoever. And, at least in my opinion, neither of those policies were of noteworthy interest to House Telvanni. I elaborated a bit on them http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=491211&view=findpost&p=9886956. Now that I think of it, all of these policies are attended to in RoHT's new quests:

Diminish slavery restrictions:
RoHT v1.3 features an entire quest on dealing with the Twin Lamps. You can either support or crush them.

Crack down on the Camonna Tong and smuggling along the Bitter Coast:
Well, as Archmagister I could hardly care less about the Bitter Coast, but depending on how you play the "House Telvanni Grasps Power" quest, the leader of the Camonna Tong, Orvas Dren, will be removed from Vvardenfell's political stage. Quickly and resolutely.

Lower tariffs on Dwemer artifacts:
There's something better in RoHT. House Telvanni can seize control of the East Empire Trading Company. Who needs lower tariffs if he gets a share of each transaction?

And thanks for the heads-up. I have actually begun to test and repair the first part of the Twin Lamps quest. It is now definitely possible to start this quest without having heard about the Abebaal slave revolt at all. The only thing you shouldn't do in that case, is free the slaves, head straight to Tel Branora, and kill Therana. If you do, you're stuck. Unmodded Morrowind would react just the same, so that's not really a restriction. I just thought I'd mention it. The next row of tests will show if it is possible to play the Twin Lamps quest if the player has begun - but not finished - the Abebaal slave revolt.
Edit: Strike that. That restriction is history.

It'll take me a while longer to gnaw my way through all 14 possibilities. I'll keep you updated on significant progress.

B

Thank you once again for your help! :foodndrink:

I'll try to get the Enchanted Editor and probably revive those people I've killed that are significant to the RoHT plot when I get v1.3.

:wave: It's time for an update again!

It http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj158/bhlmods/WIP%20Rise%20of%20House%20Telvanni/RoHTQuestTree.png, but in retrospect the Twin Lamps quest is the most complicated, if not convoluted quest I have ever written. It may feel pretty straightforward regardless which of the 26 possible ways the player may stumble upon, but I needed to test them all. :wacko: (And that number is not exaggerated in any way: There are only small changes between those ways, but each requires a little change of dialogue.) I'm especially proud of that http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj158/bhlmods/WIP%20Rise%20of%20House%20Telvanni/RoHTQuestTree.png: it's actually possible to say that you want to crush the Twin Lamps, change your mind and declare to support them, and then head to Ebonheart in order to kill them anyway. This quest is made for the irresolute player: go ahead and try to break it B).
The best thing about it is, that the restriction I mentioned in post #152 is no longer valid. Concerning the HT_SlaveRebellion quest, RoHT is now more forgiving than Morrowind itself. ^_^
And now it's official: all betatesters are abolitionists! The "crush the Twin Lamps" option featured a gamebreaking bug, but nobody has reported it. So I assume that nobody has played it. I'm proud of you, folks! :touched:

B

Yay updates! Maybe I was playing an older version, or when I crushed the Twin Lamps I was already past the part where it would have broken the game...how would it have broken the game, just so I know? edit: that means yes, when I played it I crushed them...went in to the Argonian mission and killed everything that moved. I think that was an older version though, because at that time that was all I could do to "crush" them.

That was definitely an older version. The bug only happened with earlier Beta releases of v1.3. The effect was simple: after destroying the Twin Lamps, the next quest wouldn't start.

:wave: Time for an update!

I have completed testing both the "Investigating Pergamaea" quest (the teleportation system quest) and the little interlude with Therana (except for one possibility, and that is a mere formality). Here's the http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj158/bhlmods/WIP%20Rise%20of%20House%20Telvanni/RoHTQuestTree.png (same link as always, I only overwrite the old file with every update).
That means that most of the work is done. The "House Telvanni Grasps Power" quest is long, but most of the mod's diversity lies behind me. And that's a good thing as I'm starting to lose track of all possible combinations. I'll try to complete my tests within the next two weeks before I'll hand it over to my beta testers.

B

I regret not having voiced my support for this mod yet. The Telvanni are such an intriguing faction...they display reverence of philosophical ideals way ahead of their time (individualism and even democracy in some sense) and carry a sort of ambitious mystique that has never been explored in any other fantasy setting I'm aware of. Everything about them - their clothes, their architecture, their magicks, their laws, their culture - stands in bold defiance against everyone else in Tamriel and is so unique that one can't help but feel attracted to them. I can't quite put in writing what makes them so much more than simple "evil, crazy wizards", but I'm sure you understand what I'm getting at.

That said, everything about this new version of RoHT sounds fantastic! :foodndrink:

So, good luck with those final tests.

I am willing to proofread all of the dialogue in the mod if you like.

Thanks for the offer!

Tyraa Rane has already offered to proofread RoHT, and she has done a great job with a previous version. However, having a second person proofreading dialogue, dialogue results, MessageBoxes, and books won't hurt.
But what I'd really like you to do, is check RoHT for consistency with Tamriel Rebuilt. A few people have already expressed their desire to see RoHT linked with TR. While I still don't intend to write such an extension (I need to play TR first), I wouldn't want to make things too difficult for anyone who does intend to write it. I'll send you a PM with a download link when I'm done with my own tests (sometime next week.)

B

I could check that out, yeah.

Great!
I have begun testing the final quest, but it will take me a while to get through it. I can't explain it, but .esm files seem to be less forgiving in terms of hyperlinking dialogue than .esp files. I don't remember so many topics showing up late from previous tests. But with the .esm-version, nearly every topic shows up late, and I need to add an extra entry for the earlier Journal #. I originally thought that introducing every topic by a StartScript would alleviate the problem. :shrug: Guess that was a fallacy.
Anyway, I'm working on it. The next beta release is still scheduled for next week.

B

Looking forward to seeing this released! If you need any other testers, please let me know.

When merging files, especially into .esm, often times a lot/all of the dialogue filters can get reset. We have this issue sometimes at TR. If you are working with more than one file at a time, a "main" file and a "final quest" file, for example, try setting the "final quest" file as the active one. Not sure if that makes sense though

In this case, it doesn't make sense. RoHT is a single file, and hasn't been merged with anything. I wrote it as an esp-file, and after writing a quest, I tested it that way. For my final test run, I converted it to an esm-file with Wrye Mash. With that esm-file, a lot of dialogue topics weren't hyperlinked when NPCs mentioned them for the first time. I know exactly why that's happening - http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=977815&view=findpost&p=14131033. I also know what to do in order to fix that phenomenon. I just don't know why it doesn't seem to have happened so often with the esp-file. :shrug: Maybe it did, and I just don't remember.

@ElvisX3K:
I'll be glad to have you as a Beta Tester! I'll send you a PM when RoHT is ready for its next Beta Release.

B

OMG i had no idea this was being worked on. This mod is unbelivable. actually TR was unbelivable but this is good too

Sry for double post but how do i get shrink-n-shrink and elbert to join house telvanni if im arch-mage :/ yes im assulting my own guild

With v1.25?
It's been so long since I've looked at that version.. If I remember correctly, you'll be given a choice to either destroy the Guild of Mages, or leave things as they are. When you decide to destroy them, your advisor will send you out to recruit Edwinna Elbert and Skink-in-Tree's-Shade into House Telvanni. Before they defect, both will require a service in return. With v1.25, it shouldn't matter if you are Archmage or not. (It doesn't really matter with v1.3 as well, I only added a bit of dialogue for that case.)

B

Twin Lamps support? I'm probably going to be all over this one.

Question - Are all of those described quest arcs... mandatory? I'd much rather bring the Mages' Guild under legal Telvanni control (read: get Ranis expelled, bump off Trebonius, become Archmage, not necessarily in that precise order) than waste all that life. I *like* Ajira... in fact, she'd make a pretty good Telvanni herself, with the way she backstabs Galbedir all the time. So really, if I can, I'd like to skip the "Dealing with the Mages' Guild" arc, if possible. I mean, if I'm Archmagister and the Council comes whining to me about the way I'm handling The Other Mages, I'd rather just tell them to svck it up and DWI.

You can choose to spare the Mages Guild.

In v 1.25 im not sure if you fixed this but look at this script
begin DuchessIlmeniDrenActivate

short nolore

if ( getJournalIndex JT_Q10VedamDren == 30 )
enable
endif

if ( getJournalIndex JT_Q10VedamDren < 30 )
disable
endif

end

You need if ( GetjournalIndex jt_q10vedamdrenk >= 30

30 is when you need to get the mastk but once you get the mask i think she doesnt get enabled. at lesst i had to use placeatpc with her

Awesome. In that case, I'm getting this!

As Master Sam said: You can do just that. The exact answer would be "I won't tolerate any assaults against the Guild. Tell the masters to see me personally, if they have any problems with that decision." (unadorned RoHT dialogue response).


I have rewritten that script for exactly the reason you describe. Now it looks like this.

begin RoHT_lmeniDren_Script; global RoHT_PCKilledDukeDren; This variable is set to 1 by RoHT_advisor in the dialogue "Greeting 1"; and it is set to 2 and various other people in the dialogue "Greeting 1"; and in RoHT_VedamDrenDeadCounter_Scr; 0 = PC didn't kill the Duke; 1 = PC killed the Duke personally; 2 = PC had the assassin kill Duke Drenshort noloreif ( MenuMode == 1 )	returnendifif ( RoHT_PCKilledDukeDren == 2 ); Duke Dren has been assassinated and Ilmeni is prepared for office somewhere	if ( GetDisabled == 0 )		Disable	endifelse	if ( GetDisabled == 1 )		Enable	endifendifend

B

Thx bhl another thing you need to look at is disabling some of the npc's. The person west of dagon fell that makes the guys tower is their and you can do the quest anytime leading to problems. Same with the quest where you try to find a new master.

I was curious, does this mod conflict with the "Building up Uvirith's Grave" mod?