I second that.
Daggerfall is EPIC.
On a marginally related side-note, the only other game I'm aware of that is comparable to Daggerfall in sheer grandeur and aim is Dwarf Fortress. And they both are abbreviated DF, which makes it hard to talk about them simultaneously and quickly sometimes.

You know a game (Daggerfall) is huge when it takes months of game time to travel from one end of the map to the other...

"The Elder Scrolls have prophesied the return of the dragons. In fact, the signs that the dragons would be returning were clearly laid out in the predictions. The shattering of the Staff of Chaos, the appearance of Numidium, the volcanic Red Mountain and the opening of the Oblivion gates all heralded their arrival." -Game Informer, Page 57.

Herald-a person or thing that proclaims or announces.

They didn't cause the return of the dragons, they were just signs of their return. The only one that could have caused the return of the dragons is the Oblivion Crisis by the way they talked about it on Alduin's wall.



The tower theory has no merit. The only "tower" is the red tower which is Red Mountain. I don't see why people think that Morrowind caused the Oblivion Crisis. The Heart of Lorkhan had nothing to do with the sealing of Oblivion. That was just a pact between Alessia and Akatosh. I don't see why people keep citing sources (like the one that you did in that comment which is also not canon) and take them as fact over information that is clear in the games even though the sources are all non-canon from the imperial library. Just because Michael Kirkbride writes them doesn't make them canon. He occasionally gets hired to write some lore for them but the writings he makes that they don't use or the writings he just does on his spare time is not lore. If he still worked at BGS I would be more inclined to believe his writings but he hasn't worked there since during Morrowind's development.

It has the merit of explaining the facts of the games better than any alternative, including the views one is presented with in-game. The Alessia/Akatosh pact, "Dragonfires keep the Daedra at bay" idea is utter hogwash, full of more holes than swiss cheese. It can't be true without directly contradicting major established aspects of TES lore and history, unless you know something I don't.
There have been multiple instances in TES history where no emperor of the "Dragon Blood" wore the amulet of kings, and yet there was never a daedric invasion before. I don't believe there's any explanation offered for this.
According to the information as it is presented to us in Oblivion, four hundred years of the Second Era should have been ravaged by Daedra. But they weren't...
And actually, I'm not aware of any lore that establishes a connection between Septim and his dynasty (of which Uriel and Martin are members) and Alessia's "Dragon Blood"; so it doesn't seem that they should be able to wear the Amulet at all, let alone "hold back the fires of Oblivion".

The information Oblivion gives us simply does not explain some extremely major plot holes, to my knowledge.

Oh, also, there CERTAINLY are more Towers than Red Tower, just going off of in-game lore. Direnni Tower, the ur-tower itself, for example.

The Tower theory does; and it does so quite elegantly and interestingly.

If these things heralded the return of Alduin then that means that those things announced the return of the World Eater. So if these things haven't caused his return, even though it clearly says in the prophecy that these things will lead to the return of the dragons, what caused his return?

I'm aware of Direnni tower and White-gold tower but those aren't part of the "tower theory" so why should I bring them up. But saying that the Numidium is a tower is complete "Hog-wash" Also, it says that as long as the people don't lose faith in the nine and as long as one of the dragon blood wears the amulet, then Oblivion will remained sealed. They don't have to be emperors. It makes perfect sense in the lore given. I mean, Alessia asked for help and Akatosh sealed Nirn from Oblivion so that the Ayleid's couldn't get their endless armies of Daedra to fight and defeat the combined might of the slaves and Skyrim. So it makes sense that information that isn't true lore is given and is geared toward making it fit even though the whole tower thing doesn't make sense but it doesn't make sense that established lore that has a perfect explanation. It's your decision whether to believe whether in-game lore is real or not but don't go around spreading information as fact when it isn't.



It doesn't mean that they caused his return, they are just signs in the Elderscrolls that would happen before it. They aren't tied to it. I mean, if you want to go that way then the events of Arena came first in the Elderscrolls meaning it must have caused them to find the Numidium, when that is obviously not true.

There were four hundred years after Reman's Dynasty in the Second Era during which there was NO emperor to wear the amulet, and it sat, unworn by anybody, in Reman's Tomb.
The Akaviri Potentate ruled for two hundred, and then there was chaos for another two hundred until Tiber Septim re-forged the empire and reclaimed the amulet from Reman's tomb in Sancre Tor. Tiber Septim has NO relation to Alessia or Reman, and to my knowledge is never "blessed" by Alessia to be a member of the Dragon Blood, as Reman was.
All of this information is in Oblivion.

Which means that Oblivion's information is not internally logically consistent, if the Dragon Fires Alessia/Akatosh idea is true.

That idea therefore cannot be true.

And I'm sorry, but you must not know what the Tower Theory even consists of to allege that Direnni, White-Gold, and Numidium are not part of it.
Direnni Tower, Ada-Mantia, is the archetypal tower from which the entire theory springs in imitation! White-Gold is literally central to the entire idea.


Oh, Also, I'm still interested to hear your theory about Alduin and Akatosh not being the same.

"I really like how we treat our Dwarves. They were originally elves and they are long gone. You can see all their ruins but you don't know what happened to them. Any theories on what happened are in game speak. That's one thing we are careful about. All the lore is in the voice of these narrator's that are in the world, so they can be wrong and you get these conflicting reports." -Todd Howard

The great thing about books in the game is they can be changed slightly for later because the in-game authors are fallible. However, it was common knowledge amongst the blades and dragonborn emperors that the pact with Akatosh kept the barrier sealed and it was further proven at the end of Oblivion. Now yes, there is a gap there, but for all we know the daedric princes didn't notice. The tower theory was made up out of nowhere in light of everything that had happened and with great research of the lore just so they can fill the gap with an over the top story. Occam's razor kicks in here. I mean, it's nice to have a complex story but there is a point where it becomes ridiculously over the top complex to the point it gets ridiculous.... This is a problem with alot of Kirkbride's writings, they are always so over-the-top fantastical to the point they are not even interesting to read. It's always easier to step back and make changes to something than for those that actually make the lore and have to continue it on.

Edit- I'll PM you my theory because I've gone pages and pages debating lore in threads and I would rather not have it continue here too.

While you bring up a fair point, I think it's a bigger issue in this case than just "untrustworthy narrator" and "conflicting reports". I can't suspend my disbelief enough to allow that four hundred years could have passed without there being significant record or at least MENTION of a an oblivion invasion. And I also can't believe that the princes wouldn't have noticed. They're in almost constant contact with the mortal realm, it seems.
But on the other hand, it seems you can't suspend your disbelief enough to accept MK's writings... So I guess it comes down to a matter of personal preference. As most things do.

People have theories, but we don't know for sure, yet. It could be that Alduin just woke up, said "I'm hungry," and started doing his thing with no provocation at all. Or there could be a reason somewhere in the lore, or a reason we're not yet aware of. Time will tell.

We don't know enough of the plot to Skyrim to come to a conclusion. We just don't know how Alduin/Akatosh is back.

It might simply be that his return is on a certain time, and that the elder scrolls mention the four big events that will happen before the end of the world.

Or maybe he couldn't return before these events had occurred. The previous plots have done a lot of changes to the aedra and deadra, so this shouldn't be so hastily excluded.

Yes we don't know how he is returning but we know that it wasn't because of the other games that he is returning (other than maybe Oblivion)

Why not?

Because Dagoth Ur didn't say: "Hey by fulfilling the prophecy we are one step closer to Alduin's return!"?

I agree that I think it has no real connection, but you should be more open for suggestions.

No, they only made Arena and Daggerfall for free because of their tenth and fifteenth anniversary.
So Redguard and Battlespire will cost you. And I don't know where you would be able to buy those.

In morrowind, destorying the heart of Lorkhan.....a great 'god' that created Mundus (aka the realm that Nirn exsists in).....yeah, that wouldnt have any impact at all. :whistling:

And if Alduin is Akatosh, the events of the Warp in the West, when time was warped and mutilple things happened and didnt happened at the same time, wouldnt effect the god that you know, controls time.

From my point of view, Arena impacted Daggerfall (Empire destablised causing civil war to break out), Battlespire (Dagon's first attempt to take over Tamriel) which in turn led to Oblivion (Dagon succeeding in attacking Tamriel).

There are links there.

Well of course previous games affected and set the stages for later games (otherwise there wouldn't be much continuity), but implying that all the previous games were just there to lead up to this latest epic installment is a bit absurd. They just like to put little teasers in their games that hint at what they're planning for the next one.

Besides, silly things have a tendency to fall out of Todd's mouth. It's best not to listen to devs when they're in marketing mode, which is pretty much all the time.