Hold on, before you say "another vs topic" I believe this one hasn't been done before.

The subject to which these icons will be weighed is which one of them is more endearing. Yes, they are both swell guys. But which is even more so than the other?

You can weigh them however you want, but I will choose:

1. How they treat the player
2. What role they play
3. Their sacrifice

Mr. House is the pragmatic who can always argue that his goals make sense. If I am hesitant to agree he is mostly generous and articulate with his answers, and while his tone can often seem like he's impatient with my inability to process he has a spectacular voice when he is in agreement. When I complete a task it is rewarding to hear his approving praise, but when I try to brag he shoots it down like it's out of style. Still, he never called me a moron like that Powder Gang Eddie in the prison did. It didn't end well for him. Mr. House always comes across as a stern mentor, whatever his mood is.

Which brings us to our great President Eden. He may be at the pinnacle of power, but his attitude bears resemblance to patriot, teacher, and grandfather all at once. When I come sniveling to him in tears about how unpatriotic I've been he doesn't blame or beat me. Let me tell you, he may be a Nazi, but he is a swell guy. His voice, although not as great as House, carries notes of empathy and positive assurance. I did question his methods and tried to dissect him, but soon he showed me that I needed to be brave because my country needed me.

Point goes to Pres. Eden.

It's true that House is all about his immortality and his wealth, but he is also greatly concerned with the affairs of his community. On the Strip, that is. Quit whining, Freeside, you've got the King with you. Really, I understand why Mr. House doesn't sell out to NCR. Because he cares about New Vegas. Yes, because New Vegas is his and it makes him wealthy, but like Victor he feels responsible for the town he saved from disaster and doesn't want to see it eaten and squandered by the NCR or those http://www.costumeexpress.com/Centurion-advlt-Costume/61161/ProductDetail.aspx with their tents and sunglasses and power fists.

Unlike House, Eden's loyalty is squarely centered upon the welfare of his nation. I'm not sure how much truth there is to that, and he may be a Nazi but he is a swell guy. It may just be all his propanda that he's been programmed with that drives him to press on with his plans. What about them? Oh, he wants to destroy all mutations with a modified FEV virus. Evil? But it all serves a purpose for the future, very much the same way God wants to destroy sin. Either way it is an unusual act of epic measure that is both necessary and pro-active to the goal of redeeming humanity.

Point goes to Mr. House.

If you side with Mr. House you are treated like royalty for the rest of your days. You helped him in his time of need to protect the community he cares deeply for, the Strip I mean, not those Freeside scumbags. I hear that House has the best ending, but it makes sense because the title is New Vegas. House was there in the beginning to join the families into a sort of Oligarchy by consent. When the bombs fell he sprang to action like a cornered McGyver to protect the source of his income, his home, and the town that needed him. Yes, he wants to live forever, but there is no separating him from New Vegas.

After I saw my selfish Dad die as he lived because he would not let the Enclave take credit for his work I began to think in a more patriotic way. How could I let an AI who had not been elected make decisions for our great nation of China... er... America? I had expected Pres. Eden to turn against me like Judas for a sack of coins. What happened next amazed me. Our great president Eden stepped down and initiated his destruction protocol. For his country! Before he did that he released the vial so that I could escape with it and make the last call. While he asked me to be brave, I could not hug him goodbye while snot dripped out of my nose. Though he was made of 1's and 0's, he died like a true American.

Final point goes to Pres. Eden. RIP.

TLDR
So tallied up, Eden wins. Both Eden and House are heroes. But Pres. Eden is more a swell guy than Mr. House.

Discuss, but make sure you show your criteria like I have.

I really don't see Eden as the best long term solution. Eden's plan is a joke. In theory, his plan would eventually eradicate the Wasteland, and the Enclave, which seems largely male citizened, doesnt seem like it would be able to grow fast enough before it burnt out. Secondly, I despise Eden's 'kill em all let god sort em out' plan. He could EASILY do like the Master, build a 'Master Race' society, and the 'mutants' could live peacably under his rule. However, I see the Enclave as a far more Jingo NCR, look at the way they see anyone not born inside a synthetic heat lamp as 'non americans' when Im sure almost all of the Wasteland was born under or on USA soil.

House is pragmatic, so he isnt above killing to get his way, but that's the way the Wastes are. However, notice how Mr. House's main motive is 'Work with me or get out of my way, interfere and the punishments for doing so will be great.' Which is VERY contrasting to Caesar or NCR. Over all, I find patriotism a ridiculous piece of junk, House's practicality is what the US needs, not Eden frumping an old moth eaten flag and saying 'YAY BLIND PATRIOTISM TO ME YOUR OVERLORD '

Point one: Both treat people well as long as they are doing what the boss wants. In my experience, House will try harder to get you to support him. House is more sincere in his belief, but how can an AI be sincere? In the end, House treats you better for your support. With Eden you die as you are contaminated. I can't see how Eden would not know that your character will die when the FEV is released. Who knows how long your character was unconcious in Raven Rock? Do you really believe the Enclave did not examine your character? Still, I have trouble with this. If my character is tainted, then so are every Enlave member who has been exposed to the wasteland. The officers do not run around in power armor so they have no protection. Apparently using Radaway does not prevent mutation. Even without this, the Enclave will dispose of your character when your character is done with the mission as they are not Enclave. Eden will not prevent this. As Colonel Martyr wrote, if you get out of House's way he will not bother with you. The Enclave will kill you if you are not one of them no matter what.

Point two: If House dies, his plan dies. If Eden "dies" the Enclave continues. Colonel Autumn had the codes to shut Eden down. If Eden was essential, Colonel Autumn would not shut Eden down. House plays the greater role.

Point three: The problem with your last point, is when one of my characters took the FEV vial Eden didn't self destruct and the base didn't go up. Everthing for Raven Rock stayed status quo. So there was no sacrifice for Eden.

No. The reason the LW is tainted is because he was born to wastelander parents, and was born in the wasteland. He's inherited many years of genetic mutations.

The Enclave don't just become mutated by going outside, and the virus doesn't affect them.



Autumn was foolish in thinking he could just blow Eden up. Even if Eden was not necessary (and I believe he is), Raven Rock sure as hell is. Autumn, by blowing up Eden (and thus Raven Rock) would have dealt the Enclave a severe blow.



Does there need to be? I don't really think House has made a "sacrifice". Sure he has been in stasis for some time and has lost the functions of a normal human, but I attribute that more to a fear of his own mortality.


In any case, obviously I prefer Eden, but House is one of my favorite leaders and I find him a brilliant individual. Personally I think both their plans would benefit their own interests and those of their people, greatly. For Eden, its the Enclave, for House, its New Vegas.

He's not a Nazi for one. But on topic. I do believe that Eden's plan is the best, maybe not for the human race like President Richardson's plan but certainly best for my Enclave whom I look out for. BTW I've just got to say that if you believe in what he says your just another svcker. He's a machine, he blasts apart his own men - you know the only ones he's not trying to kill with a virus - when it suited his needs; he has no feelings, well no empathy for you anyway. He wasn't programmed with anything, his personality is entirely self-created and largely based on his predecesor President Richardson; the whole modified FEV was even Richardson's plan except he was going to release it into the Jet Stream and have it distributed globally.

And his promise of making you his new Autumn? Do you really think that the Enclave would take orders from a 19 year old outsider who killed many of them?



You don't need to be elected to be President and certainly not whislt Continuity of Government protocols are active. Eden was President because the entirety of the US political caste was killed in Fallout 2 and Eden held a position which allowed him to succeed and become the acting President for as long as necessary until a new one can be elected.

Also what are you talking about? When does Eden willingly kill himself and why? What good would it serve to ask you to purge D.C. of mutations if he self-destructs himself and kills the Enclave? So no I don't know what you mean. Richardson died like a true American hero, he's some of his final remarks if the Chosen One initates combat:

"You might find that tougher than you think. If you do, I'll go to my reward knowing that I died a patriot and a servant of humanity."

and a true patriot in the warped Enclave definition:

"As the embodiment of the executive branch, I bear the burden of ensuring the survival and prosperity of the United States and of humanity itself. A heavy burden and yet if it means the return of the earth to our children and to their children, I bear it gladly."

All that aside. I prefer Eden for largely self-evident regions. His plan saves more Enclave lives and makes them a better future. Regardless, House's plan and continued survival will likely create prosperity for the NCR too - which means he is their accessory and therefore must be stopped.

It never happens, he never "willingly" kills himself, you either have to speech him or science him to do it.

He fully intends to survive and see the FEV plan through.

I personally detest Mr. House. Whatever he cooked up during two hundred years have done nothing for New Vegas or the Mojave Wasteland. All he ever managed to do was give riches to a few hundred people running business in the Strip. And House isn't doing it just to be nice, he is doing to feed his own delusion of restoring Vegas to its pre-war form. Any New Vegas candidate sans Legion is better than House IMO.


I'm not sure what to think about Eden, either. He is a very dedicated and sentient as we know but I find having an AI lead humans very dangerous, as it turned out in Enclave's case. Eden was ready to sacrifice the Enclave's integrity to lay trust on some walk-in Wasteland ass and in the process massacring probably dozens of his own soldiers. I'm not saying I oppose using the FEV, but it was clearly a mistake to launch off the already delicate situation between Eden and Autumn just for Eden to prove his point. Think about it, what if Eden hadn't interrupted Colonel Autumn when he was interrogating you? He would have beat the code out of you, the Enclave would have activated the Purifier and before the Brotherhood ever could have realized it the Enclave would already have triumphed.
About Autumn's self-destruct code for Eden, it's out of question that he would willingly use it. If he had ever wanted to use the code he would have done it when Eden popped the balloon by asking the Lone Wanderer into his office. And it's pretty clear that Autumn knew what Eden would ask the LW of. I recall that Autumn notes the code is for extreme situations when Eden just has to be stopped.

House, Eden is cool but not on the same level as Robert House.

Agreed!
You can't put a 40mm round into the President!

I keep forgetting the LW was born at the purifier. Been enjoying my alternative starts to much to think about Vault 101. Still, what have the Enclave been eating for 200 years? How do they protect themselves from the ambient background radiation? Was the oil rig radiation proof?

Back OT: Yes there needs to be a sacrifice. It was point three of the OP's topic. House made the biggest sacrifice. He put himself in a test tube/hooked himself up to his computer. Eden does not sacrifice anything. Pick one option and it is status quo. The other options are the LW getting rid of Eden using flaws in his program/logic.

@Pistelero - With Autumn I agree the code was for a last option. Using it would not have destroyed the Enclave. Set things back, but not destroy. Autumn should have used it when Eden set the LW loose. Nothing stopped him from using it. So why didn't he? (other than Bethesda's writing) The code was a spoken code and didn't have to be typed in. Colonel Autumn could have said the code, stopped Eden, and recaptured the LW. House did what he did in seven years, with what little resources he could muster. The hundreds he helps are probably more than the Enclave helps - at least as many. Had he had one more day, he would have helped 10,000s or more. He would have furthered humankind as he saw it - a technocracy or meritocracy. The Enclave is trying to further only the Enclave. House is more inclusive. He doesn't care whether you are "genetically pure". He only cares if you can advance his dream of humanity - he needs janitors too. Because of the loss of that day, he spent most of those 200 years going in and out of consciousness. He didn't spend it twiddling his thumbs trying to decide what to do. When he was lucid he fixed things. The Enclave is concerned about restoring a dead nation. House is concerned with furthering humanity as a whole. It includes colonizing other planets, and not just reestablishing the city of Vegas. Your argument against House seems based in anti-capitalism.

"The Enclave is a sealed unit. No air or contaminants get in or get out." - President Richardson.

The Enclave probably produced its own food in the Oil Rig but Raven Rock as a military base lacks these functions it is possible that they have moved to scavenge local pre-war food as you find much of it in Raven Rock, but that might be just an oversight - it's silly to waste time to create rad-free foods to place in Raven Rock that serve absolutely no purpose whatsoever.

But he didn't. If we drag outselves to what-ifs we can take it back hundreds of years since both Enclave and House have been around since the War.

Note that there is technically no such thing as "the Enclave". What everybody knows as "the Enclave" is the United States government and it acts on the best interests of the United States of America. Colonel Autumn, for example, perceives the local Wastelanders as American citizens and thus feels that it is the Enclave's duty to protect and serve those Wastelanders. The Enclave isn't about just genocide, it's about restoring the country through a gruesome sacrifice that is the only way to fully wipe out dangers out of the Wasteland. Difference is that we will never see if the FEV was necessary or not as the developers obviously hate the Enclave and do their best to make it look like a bunch of incompetent clowns with self-destruct buttons all over.


No, I enjoy capitalism just as much as every other Western human. My gripe is that House's plans were indeed delayed by one day and that day trashed most of it.
House by 2281 is a delusional yet charismatic person with a lot of promises but keeping few of them. The Enclave by 2277 is a faction that is still very much operational and stands a good chance at winning the story. In fact, it would win easily if the developers weren't so supportive of goody two shoes hedonist good guys so much.

Well if you piss off Autumn and refuse, Autumn pulls out his pistol before Eden interrupts, so I assume Autumn was going to shoot the LW either way. Then of course, even if they have the code, the Enclave still has Prime to deal with. Whereas in the Vanilla Fallout 3, the FEV created a workaround to Prime (Prime can't be activated if all the BOS are dead).

I also understand your reservations against using the LW. Since he is wasteland scum, but the way I look at it, is that Eden recognized that the LW was an extremely capable individual, having breached and cleared the supermutants main base of operations. Perhaps Eden figured that the only way the Enclave could come out on top was by using him.



I sincerly hope that is the case. But the fact that he had it at all is very troubling to me.



I sorta assumed that Raven Rock had some food production (I agree the irradiated food and water in it was an oversight). After all, its nearly certain that RR was capable of armament production.

I always thought that Colonel Autumn draws his pistol to shoot you in the kneecaps or something. In the other holding cells you find traces of blood, and it's pretty obvious that Enclave uses a lot of torture on its prisoners. It makes no sense that Autumn would just kill you after all the trouble to capture you.

I agree, LW is a potential candidate but he is hardly a trustworthy candidate. Anyone inside the Enclave would have done the same thing without a blink even if it meant their death. The Lone Wanderer has most likely helped out Three Dog fix GNR, has helped writing a survival guide, has helped pretty much every community in the Capital Wasteland and not least the Brotherhood. And now he would just kill everyone after five minutes of persuasion? IMO a better alternative would have been to torture LW to death, get the code and activate the purifier with FEV or not. A lot of problems would be solved by just getting the damn thing to work - FEV could be added later.

Now that I checked it out, Autumn says that he doesn't trust Eden and that Eden knows Autumn doesn't trust him. Autumn says that it will be a last resort to use the code, "but at least the option is there".


Not to mention that the Enclave controls much more territory than it did in California. There is Adams Air Force Base, Satellite Array and the famous bases in Chicago. A lot of room for all sorts of production. The Deathclaws at least seem to be bred at Adams AFB.

Well about the food,they could have had army rations. They will last 200 years and still taste horrible.