Then dont use them.
Do not petition to remove them thereby denying people that do like it the option.
Sellfish.
100% resistance is not a cheat or bug, its an intended game feature.

cheating is not a "right" that's why its called cheating if its an option then yes its an option, but cheating =/= freedom of choice.

its like" I cheat in chess don't deny me the right"... FINE but don't call yourself a chess player cause your not even "playing" the game, playing implies rules and boundaries that "allow" the game to be fun, if there is no chance of failure then its NOT A GAME.

playing a game requires you NOT to cheat its an oxymoron 100% immunity to any damage is a CHEAT in a game where finding ways to overcome challenge is the CORE of game-play

alchemy spam, 100% resist, 100% chameleon.... are all bad things that need fixing, they were not game options, Bethesda was just too lazy to fix them.

now you will say running backwards was not OP, Bethesda fixed it I want it back!!!! they won't bring it back because it was exploitable, also I'm sure that Bethesda will NOT allow 100& resist or 100% reflect or potion spam fest ever again.

I'm not selfish I'm just a good "gamer"

if you want cheats/exploits then mods will be you friends, mod a ring of god and put 100000000million gold in a barrel somewhere and have a blast, but I would like my vanilla game to be exploit/cheat free from the get go.

Strongly Opposed.


99% of the time these are not intentional and only reflect poorly on the Developer in review publications. Furthermore, they trivialize the game and make everyone roll the same skills.

Fortunately, they seemed to reduce these exploits, cheats, cheese-fests in Fallout3 and are likely continuing the trend in Skyrim if you listen to interviews. :celebration:

Hey, I love you too. It's nothing personal, just a discussion about exploits in a computer game.

First of all I think it should be clear that there is a difference between exploits/glitches and broken game mechanics. The item duplicate thing for example is an exploit because it is something that Bethesda never wanted in the game at all while 100% chameleon is a broken game mechanic because it is a legit game mechanic that was so poorly balanced that it's possible to get to the point where it is the same as the console command 'toggle AI' (which would be considered a cheat). Enemies can't see you and don't react even if you hit them with your sword or cast spells on them. The same thing happens if you toggle their AI off. It is god mode and nothing else.

I simply don't understand why people want broken game mechanics in their game. I like powerful end-game characters and I certainly don't want to get rid of the 'special' feeling that you may experience when your character gets close to the highest level possible. But why do you need broken game mechanics for that? And why do you want game mechanics that are easily accessible for lower level characters and put them into god mode? If you don't use them because you don't like them then you don't need them either. If you do use them, why don't you simply use cheats?

Did anyone feel that Bethesda catered to the crowd of 'selfish' players and that Oblivion was less interesting because they removed the intelligence potion stacking game mechanic that allowed you to create potions with unlimited magnitude and duration in Morrowind? It was exactly the same as spell stacking, 100% chameleon or many other things in Oblivion. It would put you into god mode with very little effort. I've never heard a single complaint about that. Yet every 'broken game mechanic supporter' screams 'I want all options I can have, every option less makes the game worse!'. So I guess when they found out they can't do that anymore in Oblivion it was a major disappointment? Seriously? If that was true then no game with a sequel should ever change, they should only add more options and not remove or change anything, no matter how badly it was implemented. We'd still play Arena now with some new things added.

It's so easy to create mods that allow you to become a demi-god (you can even use cheats or simply the difficulty slider for that), but it's so damn hard and time consuming to balance broken game mechanics. So why are the people selfish who want a balanced game while the people who like a completely unbalanced game where you can become superhuman anytime you want are not selfish? Makes no sense to me.

I can accept that for some people the 'don't like it, don't use it' argument is valid. Fine for them. But many people (probably most, see poll results) play games for a challenge. That has nothing to do with the so called 'powergaming'. It means that you use everything at your disposal apart from obvious glitches/exploits to reach your goals. If that is powergaming then almost every gamer is a 'powergamer'. If I play a 3D shooter and find a cool new weapon then I will use it. If I play poker and draw four aces then I won't discard them. It's the most obvious thing to do, at least I thought that until I visited the Skyrim forum. If I constantly have to restrict myself from doing things that would make 'winning' easier then it's annoying and kills the fun for me. It's like arm wrestling with a 5 year old boy. I pretend I lose, but if I really wanted I would never ever lose. There is no satisfaction in that - if I lose I only lose because I want to, if I win it was no challenge at all. If I defeat the dragon king (lol...) in Skyrim I want it to be challenging. I don't want to run around in my 100% chameleon suit and stack a million damage spell on him while I run backwards and jump on a rock so he can't hit me (even though he can't see me anyway...).

Apart from all that it is also an immersion killer. Is your RPG character a [censored] (only talking about the RPG character here )? He's a mage, so why doesn't he use spell stacking? Because he's not smart enough to figure out how it works with his intelligence value of 87? Because he has suicidal tendencies and rather gets killed before he uses something as lame as spell stacking?

EDIT: At least no one can say I'm trying to get my post count up...hope at least one person reads this wall of text

Many of the exploits in the games are there inadvertently. Many of them are there because the effects are otherwise useful and there's no good way to stop the use of them as exploits.

I really couldn't care less. I don't use them myself - I'm not interested in making the games easier, but harder

Here's one you didn't list in Oblivion (could well be in Morrowind too - I've never tried), of which I find many people aren't aware - a weapon enchanted with 1 second each of max level command creature and command humanoid makes you invincible. Every fight is a slaughter, since opponents just stand there and let you kill them (with NPCs saying, "Hey, I'm on your side!") I happened on that one just because I was curious to see what it would do. After my character went out and tried it out and discovered what it did, I reloaded the save before he made the enchantment and made something else. I've never even been tempted to make one since then - I just don't see the point.

Some people like exploits. That's fine. Even if Beth does everythiing they can to eliminate the more obvious ones, there will still be some. So be it.

Merari - You lost. You're the one being selfish. And I would love to see you say the same thing to the devs. They would laugh in your face, literally.
Bethesda fixes problems, and they've already said one of the major problems they're addressing is the bugs and glitches. I think all the exploit supporters will be very disappointed when Skyrim comes out.....

No, denying people something is sellfish.
Saying you dont have to use it because the game is huge enough to encompass many playstyles is choice.
Im not an 'exploit supporter' by the way. I dont use them. I dont see the point.

Im not an exploit supporter, but I am a supporter of choice.
As a random example: I never use bow and arrows, but I dont petition to remove them because they are 'useless' and I dont go on crossbow threads stating 'I dont care cause I wont use them.' I go: Yes, why not?

Balance is all well and fine but there comes a point where a game becomes boring because you dont accomplish anything and never get return for the investment of time by becoming powerful.

'Oh, I found the weapon I expected at the time I expected it, that does 10% more damage on the new enemies that have 10% more health.'
To paraphrase a delicious article I recently read on the matter.