I present a calm debate to anyone

Post » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:24 am

bro ill say it again they only ported oblivion because the ps3 came out after oblivions release. they likely wont port again they will make a seperate copy if they dont already have on... its not difficult to fit formating for another systam why do you think the other malti platform games dont have an issue.


You've literally got no idea. They will port it. Other multi-platform games are ports, and some of them do have issues.
User avatar
Samantha Wood
 
Posts: 3286
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:03 am

Post » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:44 pm

I am most concerned with the progression in game style I have seen elder scrolls evolve in since Daggerfall.
Ever since that game things are removed, gimped, stunted or ignored.
Oblivion was a terrible let down for me. It felt rushed, and unfinished.
I am most worried that Skyrim will turn out to be a hollow shell of what the series once was, continuing the trend of Oblivion instead of harking back to the strengths of the series.
I am unhappy with the removal of yet more skills.
I am very unhappy with the removal of spellmaking in favour of spells looking cool, I prefer substance over looks.
Same thing with attributes. It seems to me that perks do what attributes did in a more fluent way, perks seem gimmicky and gamey.
The removal of acrobatics and speed makes me suspect we will have one run and jump speed the entire game and that is an invitation to design levels with that in mind. insurmountable barriers forcing me down a pre-made path means the death of the open world.
I guess you could say that my concern is that Skyrim will have veered so far away from being an open world RPG into a linear hack n slash that I simply wont be able to enjoy elder scrolls anymore.

On a final note, I very much hope I am wrong. I am just worried Im not.



Jeez mate, that post alone got me worried :(
User avatar
Chrissie Pillinger
 
Posts: 3464
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:26 am

Post » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:07 pm

Mom, is that you? :blink:

These forums could use a shrink sometimes lol, anyway, my major concern, besides from those mentioned, are I'm afraid they're forgetting about important parts of lore realted to Skyrim, such as werebears, werewolves, Volkihar and even Labyrinthian. If they're not included, they should at least explain why (I mean as an in-game explanation like they managed to rid the disease or Labyrinthian had fallen into ruins).


Yes it is me!!!

I do not believe your worries are warranted and here is why: either we get consistent lore or we don't but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Consistency is good for world building among fans but it doesn't bring people in the door. Very few people look at a game they have never heard of and say, "Well the lore is consistent so I'll get it." The reverse isn't really true either. Few people don't buy the game because of inconsistent lore although that is more plausible. Plus experience shows that many gamers are willing to ignore such things (i'll get back to this). If the lore is changed then yes, they should have in-game explanation. Changing the lore can actually be a good thing because it creates two distinct time periods that the elder scrolls games can play in. Pre and Post skyrim. If Bethesda is smart they can now tell the story of the beginnings of the 4th Era. We will see the repercussions of events in Skyrim but how did we get there? These are things that can be explored. A cheesy idea is that maybe throughout Skyrim we may overhear stories of some legendary battle a century into the 4th Era but this battle was ended suddenly with the appearance of some strange powerful being. This powerful being annihilated the armies and then vanished. Bethesda now has the opportunity to let us, perhaps through dlc, undergo some time warp where the PC becomes that strange powerful being. We would get to shape our own pasts. Perhaps we, in the past, somehow destroy the Labyrinthian. Although jumping two centuries into the future does make it more liable to have lore inconsistencies Bethesda has the benefit of creating the reasons why. Thus, I don't think you will have anything to worry about. It's a different world than we're used to. Things will be different. That may take some time getting used to and if things are explained initially, give Bethesda some time. They have two centuries to play around with.

Now, if they do what they did with Sheogorath, that may be cause for concern. They changed his appearance, voice, and even a little of his personality for Shivering Isles and no explanation has been given. The best explanation I have seen is that he was aging due to the Greymarch.
User avatar
Cayal
 
Posts: 3398
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:24 pm

Post » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:42 pm

I am most worried about the lack of character customization. When they announced the removal, I was actually quite happy. Classes are a superficial concept and anybody that does want to play with a class will do so whether the game says they have one or not. I will certainly still be focusing on about 8 or so skills and will be primarily ignoring the rest of them. I don't think it makes any difference whether the game is telling me that I am focusing on them or not.
when I heard about the removal of attributes, I was a bit concerned. I think that the idea that you can decide to change play-styles mid play-through is great, but there should be a penalty for it. While you were playing as class X, you would have been increasing attributes ABC, so when you decide to change to class Y, you will be at a disadvantage for a while because class Y's main attributes, DEF, will be lower. This makes sense because the skills you would be using in class Y will be at a low level when you choose to change mid play-through, so you would be sort of starting from scratch anyway. I thought that attributes were a pretty important part of the game and that removal was not an improvement at all (as Bethesda always claims that whenever they remove something, they do it to improve their game). However, I accepted that I would just have to forget about attributes.
Then I heard that they were also removing birthsigns, I started to get a bit angry. Birthsigns were always a very important part of shaping your character and the removal of them puts far more emphasis on the idea that everybody should just play a jack-of-all-trades character. There seems to be no actual character customization left.
When they showed the star stones (I forgot their name), I got even more angry. They basically cut down the birthsigns to three primary ones and then made them changeable at any time.
These decisions indicate to me that TES is heading in an action oriented path, and moving away from it's heavy role-playing oriented past.


Hate to do this but I'm going to have to resort to quick answers. Concerning attributes, I get what you are saying and to a degree I agree but I will advocate for Bethesda. Let's say class "X" is a heavy melee class. In real life you would focus on two main ideas: physical threshold (health) and energy (stamina). A warrior needs to have the body to withstand constant lifting of heavy weapons as well as taking a beating, plus they need a strong supply of energy to maintain a fight. With attributes, a warrior would need strength and endurance. With the new system, all a warrior needs is health and stamina. They are the same thing, as Bethesda has said. The strength and endurance attributes often coincided with what they altered. Now we choose. Okay, so now your player wants to switch over to a heavy magic dependent class. They will be penalized for it as you want. Again, what are the two main attributes for a mage? They need mana reserves to cast spells and the energy to keep casting, much like energy needed to swing a weapon. That is it. Power does not mean much because power resides with the spells. If you follow Harry Potter, the most powerful wizards are those who have the stamina and magic potential (see:mana) to cast high level spells. The problem is class "X" has just spent a ton of levels working on health and stamina. The magicka bar is low. They won't be able to cast powerful spells (willpower) because their magicka (intelligence) level is low. The attributes are all still there, just hidden. The only one I can't really see any sort of resurrection for is Luck, which I personally don't think should even be an attribute. How does one increase luck? You can't really except maybe through potions.

Birthsigns are still in the game too. When they showed those stones Todd said that those three were some of the basic primary stones and the benefits they give are increasing skill growth within those fields while the other stones seemingly do different thing. Instead of being tethered to one sign we now have the option to pick whichever one we want, whenever we want. How is that not more customization and freedom? When I first played MW, I picked The Lord and didn't realize it came with Trollkin. I regretted that decision and would have loved to change it. Now I can. However, it added depth to my character and forced me to think ahead. Guess what? I am willing to bet you can do the same in Skyrim. Pick a stone that is aligned with a birthsign and keep it forever.
User avatar
Marina Leigh
 
Posts: 3339
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:59 pm

Post » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:20 pm

Yes it is me!!!

I do not believe your worries are warranted and here is why: either we get consistent lore or we don't but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Consistency is good for world building among fans but it doesn't bring people in the door. Very few people look at a game they have never heard of and say, "Well the lore is consistent so I'll get it." The reverse isn't really true either. Few people don't buy the game because of inconsistent lore although that is more plausible. Plus experience shows that many gamers are willing to ignore such things (i'll get back to this). If the lore is changed then yes, they should have in-game explanation. Changing the lore can actually be a good thing because it creates two distinct time periods that the elder scrolls games can play in. Pre and Post skyrim. If Bethesda is smart they can now tell the story of the beginnings of the 4th Era. We will see the repercussions of events in Skyrim but how did we get there? These are things that can be explored. A cheesy idea is that maybe throughout Skyrim we may overhear stories of some legendary battle a century into the 4th Era but this battle was ended suddenly with the appearance of some strange powerful being. This powerful being annihilated the armies and then vanished. Bethesda now has the opportunity to let us, perhaps through dlc, undergo some time warp where the PC becomes that strange powerful being. We would get to shape our own pasts. Perhaps we, in the past, somehow destroy the Labyrinthian. Although jumping two centuries into the future does make it more liable to have lore inconsistencies Bethesda has the benefit of creating the reasons why. Thus, I don't think you will have anything to worry about. It's a different world than we're used to. Things will be different. That may take some time getting used to and if things are explained initially, give Bethesda some time. They have two centuries to play around with.

Now, if they do what they did with Sheogorath, that may be cause for concern. They changed his appearance, voice, and even a little of his personality for Shivering Isles and no explanation has been given. The best explanation I have seen is that he was aging due to the Greymarch.

I guess it doesn't matter from a sales standpoint, and most journalists aren't that deep into the TES lore so they won't notice. Let's just hope they (even the newer devs) are well acquainted with the lore and dedicated to keep it consistent.
User avatar
K J S
 
Posts: 3326
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:50 am

Post » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:58 am

I am going to assume you mean the lack of armor separation. If so, I agree with this point. There are so many benefits to armor separations. First, we have cosmetic customization.

Which ironically is also a likely factor in a decision that would lead to a combining or reducing of slots.
User avatar
rebecca moody
 
Posts: 3430
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:01 pm

Post » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:09 pm

Hate to do this but I'm going to have to resort to quick answers. Concerning attributes, I get what you are saying and to a degree I agree but I will advocate for Bethesda. Let's say class "X" is a heavy melee class. In real life you would focus on two main ideas: physical threshold (health) and energy (stamina). A warrior needs to have the body to withstand constant lifting of heavy weapons as well as taking a beating, plus they need a strong supply of energy to maintain a fight. With attributes, a warrior would need strength and endurance. With the new system, all a warrior needs is health and stamina. They are the same thing, as Bethesda has said. The strength and endurance attributes often coincided with what they altered. Now we choose. Okay, so now your player wants to switch over to a heavy magic dependent class. They will be penalized for it as you want. Again, what are the two main attributes for a mage? They need mana reserves to cast spells and the energy to keep casting, much like energy needed to swing a weapon. That is it. Power does not mean much because power resides with the spells. If you follow Harry Potter, the most powerful wizards are those who have the stamina and magic potential (see:mana) to cast high level spells. The problem is class "X" has just spent a ton of levels working on health and stamina. The magicka bar is low. They won't be able to cast powerful spells (willpower) because their magicka (intelligence) level is low. The attributes are all still there, just hidden. The only one I can't really see any sort of resurrection for is Luck, which I personally don't think should even be an attribute. How does one increase luck? You can't really except maybe through potions.

Birthsigns are still in the game too. When they showed those stones Todd said that those three were some of the basic primary stones and the benefits they give are increasing skill growth within those fields while the other stones seemingly do different thing. Instead of being tethered to one sign we now have the option to pick whichever one we want, whenever we want. How is that not more customization and freedom? When I first played MW, I picked The Lord and didn't realize it came with Trollkin. I regretted that decision and would have loved to change it. Now I can. However, it added depth to my character and forced me to think ahead. Guess what? I am willing to bet you can do the same in Skyrim. Pick a stone that is aligned with a birthsign and keep it forever.


Okay, I missed that part about the other stones. But that is the least worrying thing to me. I'm fine with putting my own rules into the game. That's what role-playing is all about. So I would have limited myself to choosing only one stone anyway. But the attributes are still a bigger concern. I don't think there is a heavy enough penalty for class changing.
User avatar
Alex Vincent
 
Posts: 3514
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:31 pm

Post » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:53 pm

(separate from my other point which I'll make as soon as I can)

I am concerned by the finishing move mechanic, as opposed to giving the player the controls necessary for combat to look awesome, Bethesda are relying on a random digital dice to turn up the right number (and only as the last enemy is killed, it would appear). This saddens me, particularly as their combat animations don't look particularly impressive compared to what I have already seen in other, much older formats.

I am also concerned by the lack of variety both horizontally and vertically across weapon categories (only two types of ranged attacks, yet ranged attacks appear essential to taking down a dragon, while there is only apparently one type of bow, and only one ranged weapon)

I am finally concerned about the action oriented path that TES appears to be sprinting along - for the simple reason that my gut feeling is that they will fail in including a wider fanbase as their die hard fans and will lose their existing fan base.


Your first point I agree with. The inclusion of finishing animations, I think, is a good idea. Adds more to the combat department. A better set-up, I think, would be to simply activate the finishing move if the opponent is low on life and the player holds down the attack button where upon release the blow would kill the enemy.

Your last point I will contest though. If a game is going to have a feature it should implement that feature to the best of it's ability. Skyrim contains first person combat. That has to be of quality, which they are striving for. Skyrim has an open map, which is of quality work. It has physical and cosmetic customization which are seemingly of quality. Animations are good. AI is good. Graphics are good. I use good as an encompassing term meaning a fulfillment of that category. Does this game seemingly have as much customization and traditional RPG elements as Daggerfall or Morrowind? Not even close. Does it have better combat, AI, animations, graphical effects, and macro/micro detail? Yes and I compare them to the skill they should with the technological limitations of past games. Morrowind had terrible animations for the time it came out. Bethesda has always had weak animations. Now though, in comparison, their animation has improved for Skyrim. They have retained more RPG aspects that many RPG games even have and bumped up other aspects that have always been weak in ES games. What I predict Skyrim will be is a game that has no real major strengths that people can always call back to and say, "Remember when Skyrim had this awesome thing but svcked at this thing?" That is how it is with every ES game. Instead, Skyrim will be a game that people say, "Skyrim was a well-rounded game." Is that so wrong for it to still be good in all areas instead of excellent in one and terrible in others?
User avatar
Sudah mati ini Keparat
 
Posts: 3605
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:14 pm

Post » Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:51 pm

Okay, I missed that part about the other stones. But that is the least worrying thing to me. I'm fine with putting my own rules into the game. That's what role-playing is all about. So I would have limited myself to choosing only one stone anyway. But the attributes are still a bigger concern. I don't think there is a heavy enough penalty for class changing.


Could you give an example of a penalty for class changing? The only other thing I can think of is having certain skills connected with certain attributes like traditional RPG's but that has not been a feature of ES games for as long as I have played them. It does not matter how low the strength attribute was, you could always swing a beastly axe. Skills always determined what a character could do while attributes determined the reserves with which a character could do said things.
User avatar
Matt Bee
 
Posts: 3441
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:32 am

Post » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:19 pm

I gotta go now and if anyone cares, I will continue this tomorrow night once I have gotten some more rest. My reasoning skills began to deteriorate at the end there and started using too much opinion instead of factual support.
User avatar
Latisha Fry
 
Posts: 3399
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 6:42 am

Post » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:02 am

LMAO fail
User avatar
Wayne Cole
 
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 5:22 am

Post » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:04 pm

LMAO fail

Wow..thats real classy. Perhaps you could man up, be a little knowledgeable, and present something useful in the forums?

Good job Rag.
User avatar
Aaron Clark
 
Posts: 3439
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:23 pm

Post » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:10 pm

I'm a little tired, so I'll be blunt. What concerns me the most is how lore accurate the Skyrim will become. Cyrodiil was supposed to be like Venice and jungle filled, but turned out to be a copy and paste of an open field with some mountains and snow to the north. Also, every province have werewolves and well as (correct me if I''m wrong) another one of 7 lycanthropes.
Skyrim features werebears primarily, but it's yet to be revealed whether or not we'll even have werewolves, which should've been around every province to begin with. I'm ok with the team changing the lore a little, as long as they more books to bring reason, but a little consistency would be nice.
User avatar
Anne marie
 
Posts: 3454
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:05 pm

Post » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:42 am

I hope they fixed the 400 hour game save problem, I know that the pc had an unofficial work around, but nothing for x360 and ps3... Apart from that nothing really worries me about skyrim, I am ok with details we have had so far!
User avatar
Dawn Farrell
 
Posts: 3522
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:02 am

Post » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:47 pm

I've seen some wierd threads on this forum, but I think I found a winner. Please continue with Dr. Phil, err Dr. Forum.
User avatar
*Chloe*
 
Posts: 3538
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:34 am

Post » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:10 am

I wonder if a mod could Lock this...you know save it from spam until he comes back and request it being opened again.
User avatar
Chloe Botham
 
Posts: 3537
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:11 am

Previous

Return to V - Skyrim