Already working on that Jack:) Got a basic breakdown script in the works and have a few ideas for putting them back together afterwords too:D

You sir-and-or-madame have just discovered my number one source of frustration. (Pardon me... I think I was channeling Crazy Wolfgang for a moment there.)


Your suggestion is also PRECISELY the thing (I think... scripting is way over my head) that Retro came up with. Which makes me even happier... because this means that everyone is on the same page! The biggest problem, though, is that for the system to be 'fully' perfected, we are likely going to have to wait for the Script Extender to come out. It seems that certain things, like getting weapon condition, are by default locked to the currently equipped weapon. Or something. I'm not sure. Hopefully he'll pop back in here and perhaps explain it better than me.

Anyways...

That won't stop me from searching for temporary alternatives in the meantime, to keep the people interested in this happy, but it's going to be a messy system at best... and at worst... downright -ugly-.

Still, I think people would rather see this done well and done right... than get rushed into completion and forgotten about as another overly ambitious mod.

AFAIK GetWeapHealthPerc only returns the actors equipped weapons health(the Weapon Repair Kits use this). To get any other weapons health we would either have to A: use NVSE or B: force equip it and check that way(more complicated than it sounds)....I could be missing something but I think those are the only options.

As for the recipes...your correct you only really need one breakdown recipe and have all the work done by an OnAdd item. Putting them back together is more busy work than anything. You "could" make recipe variants for any combination you want to be valid. Just use visibility conditions on the recipe to organize them. Other option is again NVSE when it comes out, using it to adjust base item values on the fly.

The container method could work too but functionally would be the same as recipes.

This is just some quick info based off my digging in the New Vegas G.E.C.K. I'm sure there are more ways to do it that I haven't thought of yet.

The advantage of using a container is that it would allow you to put any combination of items in, and encode the logic for the reconstruction in the container script.

That means you'd only really need a single container per object type, rather then many recipes taking every variation of good/bad components.

... strictly speaking, you could use a single container to do reconstruction for all items, providing that the recipes for every item is different. it would work a lot like a minecraft workbench (a single object that allows you to build many objects depending on the contents of the bench when the crafting button is clicked).

If things expand out to the point were there are more than a few ways to make a 10mm/etc then the container method might be more efficient. Still going to work on both but probably focus on the recipe method for starts and move to another method after overall complexity is higher.

This -is- an interesting concept...

... in fact, it sounds a bit similar to the way that the Ammo Press from Fallout 3: The Pitt worked. At least, in theory. In practice, I'm guessing the scripting would be near-infinitely more complex. Still... it couldn't hurt to keep in mind. Retro seems to know his stuff, so... I'll trust his ability to figure out whether it would be the best way to handle things or not. I won't even -pretend- to know what would work better... at least until a working version of the mod is released!

Then I'll pretend to look like I know what I'm doing!

Right, then, kiddos... news time...


(Not-So-)Important Update:


I've been hard at work, re-creating all of the parts for the guns, because idiot me forgot about the Pre-Order Pack Dependencies... and for some reason none of my utilities could get rid of it. Then, after exploding furiously at them, I tried pressing random buttons and got everything to work perfectly forever. I'm the big hero. There's going to be a parade in my honor.

Oh wait... no... that's not what happened.

I corrupted all of my data! That's what happened. So I had to start from scratch! But, thankfully, with Retro and Jack helping me out, my brainjuices got flowing again... and now things are looking pretty damn good, if I dare say myself.

So, what I've been doing today, is designing the parts which will make up pistols. The 10mm was the first to be completed, the 9mm following shortly after.

Right now, though, I'm looking at the process of re-chambering pistols. If what I'm led to believe is true... then the actual 'making' of this part of the mod should be fairly simple. As should be the means by which the process is completed. However, I want to maintain the REALISM of this mod... and so that means being very careful in deciding what guns can be re-chambered for what ammo types.

So that's the question:

What calibers should be available to the pistol-type weapons for firing?

I'm open to hearing outside suggestions, as always... I love to hear feedback from the community. I'm currently -really- looking forward to the fun that starts when mods like 19th and 20th Century Weapons and CALIBR are available... that should be interesting!

.45 for a handgun please

19th Century weapons?
You want to shoot at people with a musket or something?
:P

In fact... yes. Yes I do.

But only if someone gets the proper animations for muzzle-loading like that. Homan. I would be in heaven.

More importantly, however, are the revolvers, rifles, and early heavy weapons which came out between 1801-1900. Those early designs by Colt, Winchester, and so many others I can't begin to name, really make up for a great addition to the mod. Plus CALIBR. I really want a fully-New Vegas'ed version of CALIBR.


Anyhow... I saw you, there, Bigcrazewolf... and you will most -definitely- be getting your .45 handguns, if I have anything to say about it!

Which I do! How awesome is that?

I seriosly this needs more attention.
And a bump. Howdy-hee!

UPDATE: This Project is Not Dead... Just Hibernating...

I haven't given up on this yet. In fact, with NVSE out... I'm even -more- hopeful that someone with some scripting knowledge might be able to help me out with achieving my vision. I've just been busy getting a new computer, watching the other mods coming out, and waiting for the right time to decide to probe around a bit.

Now seems as good a time as any.


The original description of the project stands... so I won't go into great detail describing it all over again. Just back up to the first page and read it through if you're a newcomer to this thread. I'd only bore you with the details anyways. Eventually, I may actually change the name of this mod... simply because I also wish for it to include the ability to create clothing and armor and all that good stuff as well... but one step at a time. Right now I need to see if anyone with any ability to script would be willing to help me out with this, because I have been trying to wrap my head around the art for years... with no success.

Code just isn't my language. Nothing I can do about that, I guess.


Anyhow, that's about all for now... just wanted to give this a much-needed bump. I've been away from it for far too long now... and the time is ripe for it to finally see the light of day.

Well I don't know how I missed this thread before now but I just read through and it sounds great...my only concern is that lots of scripts attached to lots of stuff tend to cause lots and lots of unforeseen problems...
I love the idea of breaking down guns into generic components that can be used to repair and build new guns as well as buying and/or finding more parts, the recipe menu and crafting with guns/ammo is likely my favorite part of the game.
If theres anything I can do to help, holler, I'd love to see an organized outline of what you got so far, sounds good I'll be keeping an eye on this.

I'm rooting for you, Colonel. So much so I will promise you once you're ready to release I will make icons for the various parts you may have un-scrap metal'd.

Depending on how many parts though, it could be a while. Like, a while. I'm working with Antistar on WMX and it's taking quite a bit. I like to play FO:NV too.

Heh who has time to play? I spend 5 minutes playing then 5 hours looking for something in the GECK, me thinks modding is a sickness...especially when mixed with a bad case of OCD

Ooh... an OUTLINE... that would be a great idea. If only I could remember how to properly outline... O.O ... I would totally make one of those High School Social Studies Class Outlines...



I.) -Presenting: The Gunsmith-


A.) Weapons:
1.) .45 Handguns... oh! And a Musket!
2.) Learn how to make an outline...



Anyhow... I'll certainly try to get back to working out what is what. It's been so long, that I'm actually going to have to start from scratch. Which is fine. Because all I had was a mess of renamed 'Scrap Metal' and a couple test-recipes, anyway.

I like the sound of icons, though... mmm...

WMX is awesome, so I wouldn't want to take any more time than was needed anyways... but icons would definitely be welcome. Once I have items again.

Oh good lord, I'm never going to have time to play this game again. >.< But at least I'm finally getting back to work on my baby, here.

Voted:
love
mildly complex
yes I would

When I was playing recently breaking down some ammo for guns I don't use I was wondering to myself:
"What's the point? I'm creating these base materials and I'm never going to use them. Maybe if I had focused my skills on repair, survival, science, etc. and made it a primary goal to seek out new recipes, blue prints, and configurations.... but, wait! I doubt the game actually supports that play style ."

It'd be pretty cool to play an inventor type character who doesn't win by shooting the best or by talking the best, but by constructing the best gear possible. I mean sure some people might say that the brotherhood, or some other organization would be more likely to make these super weapons and not just some random guy, but what you have to remember is that you are the player... you have super human powers, no normal person can do all the things that the player can do... Why is it that the player's super human powers should be limited to combat? If one character can focus on combat and kill every faction with a dull table knife, then another character focused on creating things should be able to create a machine gun sniper that shoots black holes.

You sir and or madame... win teh Interwebz.


Yes, the inspiration from this mod comes from a similar frustration. If I can break down bullets into their base components, I thought, then why should I not be able to take apart the whole damn gun? And for that matter, if I could deconstruct and reconstruct my guns... why shouldn't I be able to modify them in ways beyond the scope of the vanilla game's modification system? They made 'crafting' categories for a reason! If not for us to find new uses for the crafting menu, then what?!

My frustration comes in the form of not being able to do textures or meshes, and not being able to script.

Originally, my plan was to just use the crafting system to make all of this possible... but the more I've imagined, the more impractical such a 'simple' method becomes. Eventually, if the player toyed around with all of it long enough, they would start to realize that what I had amounted to a bunch of 'stat-tweaks and modifications' utilizing various pieces of cleverly-renamed scrap metal. In the end, it would ultimately boil down to being limited to doing only those things which 'avoid' the usage of new/retextured meshes... or any kind of scripted event what-so-ever.

In the end, I would -really- love for this mod to incorporate BOTH new meshes and textures and scripted items and events which behave in certain ways.

What I need right now, in addition to as many fresh ideas as the community can offer me, is someone capable and willing to script... and eventually I'll be looking for someone who might be willing to make and/or lend to me a number of meshes and textures. I really do wish I could do these things myself, but alas... the time it would take for me to learn scripting alone would see the coming and going of the next TWO games in the Fallout series.

Not that that will stop me. I'm going to keep on with this until it finally gets done, whenever that may be...

... but I doubt, if I must go it alone, that anyone will still be interested in it when that time finally comes.

Heh, I feel like the only modder that plays this game sometimes. Sometimes.

But anyway, I'm rooting for you. I've wanted something like this since CRAFT2.0 was announced and never fully finished for FO3, so, good luck. I'll be here when you need me. I'm no scripting guru, but I do know some. I'll try talking to a few of them.

The main difference between weapons and ammunition is basicly that one has health (weapons) and the other not. The game sees the weapon as one, so thinking of a weapon as list of parts which can get individually damaged is problematic. Also the crafting system is not really good implemented i think, a few parts are missing. For example it would be good to have a tools category for recipe (tools are needed to build a recipe but not consumed), also it would be nice to determine the condition of the produced item. As far as i can see its currently set to 100% condition all times. A possible solution to circumvent this is to make weapon dummys with an attached script which adds a weapon to the players inventory with condition based on repair for example.



Script is not too complicated if you spend time to learn it. Cipscis made a very good tutorial for starting here: http://cipscis.com/fallout/tutorials/
Also the GECK wiki is a good resource of information and the forum here helps when you are stuck.



New textures & meshes are one thing, i call it "Eye-Candy". They are nice to have but ultimatively not needed. Scripting is needed in most cases, especialy for your mod you will need scripts.



For scripting i can help you maybe, what do you need exactly at the moment?

regards,
Mr. J

I'm very glad to see that there is still support out there for this... I had begun to feel, as the weeks went by, that perhaps people would lose interest in a mod which finally put the crafting system on the level it should have been all along. Many have created mods which allow for the crafting of forgotten or overlooked ammunition types. There are at least a couple mods out there that let the player craft armor... and a handful which allow for the creation of weapons as well.

The goal of this mod is to do all of that... while maintaining a certain balance in gameplay, so as to not make things too easy or too difficult. As it stands, the vanilla crafting system seems to arbitrarily dictate what is 'easy' and 'difficult' to cook. It overlooks the creation of many of the 'special' types of ammunition. It completely neglects armor.

Presenting: The Gunsmith was originally about creating a better crafting system for weapons... but as I realized the depth of things missing from the system... it has grown into something with a far broader vision.


I am currently playing through the game, myself... trying to determine what sorts of things I would like to see added. During the time I am not playing... I am in the GECK creating the 'base component' items which will be necessary for the functionality of this mod. The parts themselves will be, for the time being, little more than re-named scrap metal. In time, I hope, these parts might very well receive their own custom world meshes and icons. Perhaps once the foundation for these 'base component' items is established, I will try releasing a beta version of the mod with some very basic functionality.


I don't want to put out a time-line just yet on when a release candidate can be expected... so if you're holding tight... just keep on holding tight for the time being.

Rest assured that, when you do finally get your hands on Presenting: The Gunsmith... it will be in the stablest form and highest quality I can manage.


Now, with that having been said... I do require some input. It has been discussed before with my M.i.A. Script Guy... but I would like some feedback from the rest of you who have shown interest in this mod. Just how complicated should the process of breaking down weapons be? I have been literally -pouring- over gun schematics online, trying to learn the various parts and pieces and what-have-you... and it turns out they're a lot more complicated than someone such as myself, whom nobody would trust with a real gun for fear of being accidentally shot, would expect.

Do you want to be able to take apart a gun and get a schematic's worth of parts, some of which are unique to that model and some of which are interchangeable with others?

Do you want to get four or five generic parts (screws, grips, etc) and nothing more?

Do you want something in between? If so... tell me what. I'm interested in hearing what you have to say.


And lastly, If you know something about guns... like... a professional deal of information about guns... I would love to have your assistance in determining various factors in this initial phase of the mod which deals with the construction of weapons and ammunition and the whole lot of it. This isn't something I'm asking of just one person, either. The more input I get, the better the quality of the mod becomes. As I get further, and move on from weapons to armor, and even from armor to... who knows what else... food, or furniture, or something... I am sure I will come back for even more feedback.


I'm going to get back to work, for now... but I'll check back in often to see how the discussion goes.

I look forward to reading it. Cheers!

Sounds Awesome, any idea on the release date?

Glad you like the sound of it... and no, no projected release date just yet.

Once I have a little more to go on, and it looks like there might actually be something to release... I'll be sure to let you know. If I can make some significant headway by the end of the month, maybe I'll put out a beta... let folks play around with it and see what they think. But it's way too soon, just yet, to even commit to that much.

I don't want to put out a shoddy product... but I do recognize that the player is, at the end of the day, my greatest asset when it comes to determining what works and what doesn't.

Don't worry! I won't forget you guys...



In Other News:

'Presenting: The Gunsmith' now has a new friend... my pet-project 'Presenting: The Scientist!'. I have been experimenting a good deal with the creation of my own 'crafting' apparatuses in an attempt to alleviate the strain which my project places upon the vanilla system. While 'Presenting: The Scientist!' does still use the vanilla system... it does so through the activation of entirely new apparatuses: the Chemistry Lab and Microscope.

These two items will allow the player to not only replace the campfire and workbench for -most- of the chemicals crafted by the vanilla game... but also allow for the player to create entirely new chemicals, aid items, and assorted goodies through the identification of unidentified chemical compounds salvaged from various places in the wasteland.

This will be made possible by the inclusion of my other pet project, a mod which creates a great many usable containers out of otherwise ordinary static objects. This mod will not -replace- those static objects... but instead add a number of new and unique scavenging opportunities for the industrious player around the wasteland... a critical feature which will play a prominent role in all of my 'Presenting: [Insert The Craft-type Here]' mods.


All in all, this is exciting news because it means I am getting closer to finding a working system for all of this to use... at least until such a time as scripting can pick up where the game's standard functions leave off. Essentially, it means that a beta test of this mod might actually be possible... and maybe even before yet -another- year escapes me.

Stay tuned for further news and developments!

-Cheers!

Hiya Colonel, just my thoughts...

I've been a gun enthusiast and owner my entire life, I'm kinda a redneck, an NRA member, never been in the military but I do read a

lot about guns and consider myself semi-knowlegable about the mechanics, maintenence and safe use of guns.

My number one problem with the game as far as gun use is concerned is the "condition" and repair mechanic, this was included in

gameplay to give the player an upkeep for the guns use however its all wrong (IMO)

In real life guns don't break under normal or even extreme use (open to argument, I know) guns fail because of: #1) they are dirty

and need to be cleaned, #2) faulty or bad ammunition.

The game allows for guns to jam during reloading and I've always enjoyed that caveat for realism.

If you or anyone else thinks I'm wrong just go visit Wikipedia and read up on some of the popular guns that are in the game and

have been added by mods, the H&K USP 9mm is a great example and would also apply to the Browning Hi-Power 9mm that the games

default 9mm semi auto is based on.

The Hi-Power is loosely based on the 1911 which Browning also created, these weapons went through very rigorous testing and have

served on the battlefields for years in every kind of conceivable conditions "without ever breaking"

Now I'm sure that on occasion it does happen...again however take the USP as an example during testing this pistol was subjected to

days being submerged in salt water, ground into the sand and mud and was still able to fire thousands of rounds without any

problems, they even jammed a bullet in the barrel and cleared it by firing another round through it! with no detrimental damage.

What I'm getting at is that any wear and tear on the gun and its components should be very small, the default game gives the guns a

"condition" that "decreases" with use so the gun needs to be "repaired" several mods increase condition and some ammos decrease as

well.

To me making the gun need to be "cleaned" as a means of repair would be much more realistic.

I've even considered making a mod replacing the Weapon Repair Kits with Cleaning kits.

SO...

Lets say all guns have these components:

Frame/Reciever
Barrel
Trigger/hammer assembly
Grip/stocks
Magazine/cylinder
Springs
Screws
Pins (mechanical)
Firing Pin

The number one problem is dirt, grime and gunpowder residue on or in these components.

The parts don't really wear out or break they just get dirty and need to be maintained.

So if the gun is at its full condition lets say the number is 100, the guns performs at 100%

if the gun is dirty from use the condition bar on your hud will show it, if you repair it ie "clean" it then the guns condition is

increased up to whatever depending on your repair skill.



In real life breaking down a gun and reassembling it is very easy...the military has been teaching morons to do it for years. It

simply does not take much skill, even replacing a worn or defective part is quite simple.

So...

#1) all guns, default or those added by mods should have very high conditions so wear is very slow. (this way the default games

play mechanics are not screwed with in any way) condition simply simulates a guns state of cleanliness.

#2) weapon repair kits should be renamed "Weapon Cleaning Kits" and be made more plentiful.

and/or weapon cleaning kits could be a misc item that is not consumed and carried in inventory, recipes could be made for each gun

called cleaning recipe, the recipe would take your gun simulate cleaning it then return the same gun at full condition, the cleaning kit

in inventory would be used as a condition of the recipe, in other words if you don't have a kit you can't clean your gun.

#3) repair skill should have very little if any impact on replacing components, breaking down or reassembling guns.

The componets added by your mod would simply be parts without any condition...all guns would have the same parts and some could be

interchangable based on type.

A breakdown recipe for a 9mm, no need for a script for condition as condition refers to how clean the gun is not wear.

Breaking down would give you the parts named above, springs, screws and pins could be interchangeable between all guns (not energy

weapons) the barrel, trigger/hammer, magazine/cylinder, grips/stocks and firing pins could interchange with gun type.

Each part could have a prefix to identify its type, ie: revolver frame, thus it can only interchange with another revolver.

Whereas screws could be generic and be used with any gun.

Firing pins could be specific to the gun and not interchangeable or interchangeable based on type.

Breaking down then reassembling a gun could even be considered cleaning it, if the gun was at say 50% condition and you break it down to parts

then reassemble it...the recipe could give back a gun at full condition.



So...

Repair skill could be thought of more as how adept you are at maintenence not really replacing parts.

I see no need for any scripting involving condition or state of repair of any parts or the breakdown reassembly process.

I suppose you could use a script to simulate losing or breaking a part during the process based on repair skill.

Hmm, just my 2 cents, rambling and typing my thoughts, sorry.

Of course its your mod and you can and will make it any way you want...just wanted to give you some food for thought.

Cheers

*edit,

It dawned on me that what I described above is really nothing more than a recipe mod...I could throw it together in a few hours, I think you want

something more complex...again just food for thought.

Hrrrm... I have to admit that, often times, I have had the same feeling.


I have seen guns nearly 200 years old taken down off a shelf, loaded, and fired without incident. If the weapon is properly cleaned and maintained... then really they should last damn-near forever.

I could certainly see a number of ways to -do- that... to represent that fact in Fallout: New Vegas... but I can't really figure out how to incorporate it as any kind of a balanced game mechanic. I can't really say why the weapons in Fallout wear down so quickly... maybe it has to do with all the dirt and sand in the air. Maybe it has to do with the general state of people not taking care of their firearms.


What I do know is that, without the process of needing to repair the weapon...

... suddenly, half of my worries about trying to determine what 'condition' a hand-built weapon is in doesn't matter!


Homan... that'd be sweet!


Food for thought, indeed...