Guilds are monopolies of a trade, given charter by local authorities for a certain jurisdiction. So far in the games except Daggerfall, we’ve only encountered the guilds we’re allowed to join. This should be changed so we can see the other guilds in the world and potentially interact with them through the guilds we do join.

A quick list of them would be:

Textile Workers
Masons
Tanners
Carpenters
Cooper
Cobbler
Bakers
Apothecary
Engravers
Brewery
Smithing
Glassblower

And others of these types as needed. It’s good that the larger guilds have their own guildhalls (but not with beds in them, obviously), but most guild meetings and events need to take place in a common town hall that can also be used as a court. The mage’s guild would have a stronger standing in town than the Cooper’s Guild, but that doesn’t mean they don’t get into each other’s politics.

To judge and mediate conflicts in the given jurisdiction would be the Presidium of Guilds, with a rotating tribunal of members from each of the guilds. This all forms a layer beneath the town government already in place.

The trade associations aren’t guilds because they don’t produce things or have standards, but they come to the table as well. They play the Presidium game to handle the long range trade and try to undercut their competitors. Often times they would play the guilds against each other for better deals, as jurisdictions became blurry.

This gives a strong framework for a trade association as a playable faction in the game, and it ties all the guilds together loosely with the towns so the world would feel cohesive. What do you think of having the guilds come together this way?

It would do a lot to flesh out the world if those guildhalls were more prevalent than mages, fighting, thievery, imperial, etc. Where a town would have one or two of the larger playable guilds it might also have 4+ smaller ones. The guilds could also try to undermine smiths or general alchemists or merchants with clothes and light (leathers) armor. Many towns would come without main guilds and some few could be towns dominated / governed by a single backwater main guild.

Freelancer work could be available through those lesser guilds depending on some fluctuating town economy. Including getting other guilds, even major ones, to stop encroaching on territory; diplomatically or otherwise.



But I'd also like a new car for Christmas.

[edit] I'd also like to point out that I do not want guilds to be equally footed in every town.
A thieves guild does not mean a Legion
A Fighters guild does not mean a Mages guild

Caldera had it best, though that was only a small portion of the map.

There can be free towns without any guilds as well. With the trade organizations pushing goods around, they don't need every guild everywhere.

We may as well wait for the followup to The Infernal City, since there's apparently been some shakeup in the traditional guilds. But yeah, the boring NPC trade guilds should be acknowledged by the game, and should probably stay about the same.

It makes sense to me, armorers and clothiers getting into over leather and furs, ect.

Of course guilds were a medieval thing and the Elder Scrolls universe is based off of the classical era. That's why guilds are a different thing entirely in TES.

I'm all for more factions, joinable and unjoinable, whatever. Just more, more, more is my philosophy. But, I'm not gonna say, "this is the way guilds should be because it's the way guilds were in real life."

I really don't get what is so medieval about TES that makes everyone think it's a medieval setting. Is it the swords and armor? Jeez, you guys. Pick up a book. There is so much about TES that is just so extremely un-medieval. It's the ancient times, through and through.

Maybe 4th century for Oblivion....

What makes you think so?

I was just thinking it's the end of an era. The empire has surpassed its climix and is starting its downfall. The provinces are breaking out into civil war and the smaller tribes that inhabited Tamriel before it was united are reappearing.

Plus, it may just be due to ESRB ratings, but the culture is becoming more conservative and less sixually liberated. It may be due to Oblivion's leaning towards mainstream fanatsy, but the outfits and armor in Oblivion seemed way closer to medieval than in previous games.

All in all, Oblivion represented, for me at least, the transition from the classical era into late antiquity.

I wouldn't be surprised if TESV revolves around a new monotheistic deity gaining popularity throughout the remains of the Cyrodilic Empire and way more severe persecution of daedra worshippers. My guess is that Tiber Septim becomes the one true God and the 8 original divines are demoted to something similar to saints.

I'm also predicting a split in the Cyrodilic empire, causing a number of smaller, Cyrodilic factions. This will also cause the emperor of Cyrodil to move the capitol of the empire somewhere else. I bet it will be built on the ruins of Almalexia, like Constantinople was built on top of the ruins of Byzantium.

The Imperial City will be capitol of a Western Cyrodilic rebel empire and will be quickly overrun by Nords.

The Eastern Cyrodilic Empire will build up it's wealth and control the other, now separately sovereign factions through the spread of its new religion.

But, now we've gone way off subject.

As for my point: I like your idea because it's a cool idea, not because it's the way real-life guilds were, which I feel is irrelevant to Tamriel's culture and setting.

Absolutely, I agree with this thread completely. The next ES installment could do with a little more fleshing out.

Yes, lots more politics and depth to the world is a good thing.

I'd like to see that, but it seems too similar to actual history of fall of roman empire. In tes, races and some other details are heavily influenced by history, but i dont think itll ever be completely mimicked in the game world.

Again, not to go too off topic, but consider the fact that King Helseth was a half-Dunmer installed as a figurehead king of Morrowind by the empire, and the region was really dominated, politically by the Archpriest of the Temple. Just like King Herod was a half-Jew, installed as a figurehead king of the Jewish tribes and cities by the empire, but everything was really controlled behind the scenes by the Archpriests of the Temple.

And I could go on for a while comparing Morrowind to ancient Palestine.

This is why I'm really trying to get into Daggerfall and the lore. Everything seems really on-point, so far, with history.

EDIT: oh, and the Dunmer shrines, scattered around Vvardenfell are almost identical to the Hebrew shrines that were scattered around the Middle East. Vivec the warrior/poet... c'mon

Maybe the Imperial government was structured like the Roman Empire for a while, but then Oblivion came along and turned our legionnaires into the Knights of the Round Table. I weep for what little semblance of the Classical era we have left in The Elder Scrolls.

P.S. Arena and Daggerfall were pretty much a generic medieval setting. Though this was simply because the lore wasn't fully fleshed out at the time, I'd think High Rock still has quite a few semblances to the time period. It's very feudal.

There were knights and lords.

But knights were orders, sort of like the warrior class in classical Rome, and less like the vassals in medieval times. I might have to read more about the knightly orders, though.

But, then, there are the pagan temples and shrines, scattered throughout the provinces, housing prosttutes.

Arena, though, I agree with. They based the story of Tiber Septim loosely off of King Tiber, then flash-forwarded to the dark ages, sort of.

The lore is actually pretty fleshed out, by Daggerfall, actually. All the daedric princes are in it, they have a more detailed calendar than any of the other games, and there are lots of little cultural stereotypes and stuff which disappear later. Track down the joke book for a good example.

The one big disappointment in Daggerfall, lore-wise, was the population of NPCs, who all looked like humans and they didn't even bother with the names. At least Arena had different names for each race.

Having more guilds then just the ones you can join would be nice. One thing they might do is pay you a bit more for items you retrieve like game parts can be sold a bit more to someone in the Tanner's Guild since they can do something with them directly. Don't know how they could incorporate it but maybe add a few generic things you can learn from them like bring enough obsidian, iron, glass and gold scraps to the mining guild and they help you learn the art of mining veins. Miss that from Morrowind, finding one of the abandoned or bandit run mines and make a little profit form it. This could also be done with dear and other game. Always felt bad killin a dear just for some venison that wasn't worth that much. This makes wildlife in TES more as eye candy tossed in instead of playing a part in the game. Perhaps you can learn to take antlers, skins, teeth and etc. I found that both fun and a "worthwhile" means to get a little gold in the Gothic series.

Sorry Shades if I'm going off on a tangent, but I think your idea of many non quest hub guilds could really help the economy in TES which I've felt has been a bit week. You could do the same with tailors guild, etc etc etc. Not necessarily guilds you go and do quest for and you raise in ranks and etc, but more of an optional means of making money or if you choose not to, just a guild you know exists who have members, meetings and a house. Maybe a skill could be learned as a one time event or learn it but have base attributes affect it. Have really high agility then you can get exquisite hides have a lot of strength then you can get more from an obsidian vein.

More guilds would be nice, any type of guilds really, just more. Oblivion had too few. Could also be fun if ur work in the guilds had more effect on the rest of the world.

I agree to the OP. I agree because there are actually, I wouldnt really call them guilds, but there is places for free-masons and textile workers get together and discuss things with each other. I think that it would be a nice addition. It would add a bigger sense of, " should I REALLY join this faction or not? "

I would like it

In case you haven't noticed, the only truly Imperial city is the Imperial City, which is actually very Roman in its design. The other cities draw inspiration from neighboring provinces(Bruma-Skyrim, Chedinhal-Morrowind, Leyawiin-Black Marsh/Elsweyr, etc.). The Imperials are still very Romanesque. The Imperials still follow a very Roman design with some Medieval European influences(were in Arena/Daggerfall, so why so much of a surprise when those Medieval European influences influence cities not purely Imperial in their design and structure?). Take a look athttp://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Caldera Oblivion didn't change everything to Medieval European happy time.

Not really too far off from what an Imperial Roman town would look like in a far away province.

Most Roman villages started out as Imperial forts, then some homes and shops were built from local materials. The carved Parian marble columns and statues would be shipped from Italy or nearby and, therefore, reserved for more extravagant buildings like governor's palaces and bath houses. Vvardenfell isn't really the type of place for that sort of thing.

So why the similarities to medieval European architecture?

Well, guess what empire was the predecessor to medieval European culture? Yup.
Besides, architecture and culture don't always line up in the Elderscrolls. We can see a mix from cultures all over the world when we look at Dunmer architecture.
In this http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:MW-Places-GrandCouncil.jpg you can see a mix of architectural styles. The arrow slits on the towers are certainly a medieval innovation, but the bridge, supported by fornices, and the doorway, and the columns are very Roman. The turreted walls have been around since before the Romans.

EDIT: by the way, here's on old http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/Arbeia_Roman_Fort_reconstructed_gateway.jpg&imgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Arbeia_Roman_Fort_reconstructed_gateway.jpg&usg=__lUl1BSdSQiMJmyh6uirJKTX7NTM=&h=960&w=1280&sz=573&hl=en&start=9&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=SPZz3CZ2YM18kM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Droman%2Bfort%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dsafari%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1.

See what I mean? Built from local stones; not marble. Very simple in design. Fort builders in the Middle Ages simply adopted Roman building principles. The only architecture style that is purely medieval is the Gothic style of the chapels you see in Oblivion. So out of sync with the Roman-style wayshrines. I would have really loved to have seen some beautiful classical-style temples in Cyrodil.

EDIT AGAIN: In fact, just google "Roman fort" and look at the images.