[Roddy]

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1343716-of-princes-and-power-chapter-i-a-game-of-pawns/

This is for discussion of the RP "Of Princes and Power". Post all Character Sheets and OOC discussion here.

Spoiler

The Fraternal Order of the Knights of the Mines is a secret order of knights and cult of Reymon Ebonarm. They answer to a council that is elected by majority vote once every five years and is believed to be blessed by The Black Knight. The order is kept secret on pain of death. That being said, rumors exist, but actual members will deny its existence, no matter what. They are called the Knights of the Mines because the ten founders of the order were drawn to each other during a large battle in the 2nd Era that took place in a mine. What drew them together was a vision of The Black Knight and it is believed that he blessed the ten with immortality for the next ten years and a place at his side when those ten years were up, only if they vowed to do his bidding and to fight their hardest. The amount of knights in the present day is not known, but is estimated to be around twenty, and they inhabit all of Tamriel. Their true names are never spoken in ceremony and each one is recognized by a small jewel of his mineral with the Ebonarm etched on it.

The Order of the Knights of the Old Gate is an order consisted of the best and most loyal knights of the Duchy. They are headed by and answer only to the Duke. These knights wear a full suit of Steel Plate armor with the crest of the Duchy emblazoned upon their shields, and a white cape with the picture of a large black gate. There are currently only thirty of these knights, ten of which symbolically man the Old Gate. Only if the Granite Keep is under imminent threat do they leave their post.

Here ya are!

Very nice! I like them.

[Ron]

Thanks! Like I said, after I put up the CS, I'll actually start writing Lore for Thorkan and those two orders specifically.

[Beth Belcher]

I like. Also enjoying some explanation for "Old Gate", as normally that sort of name only turns up around the gate of an existing city (Aldgate in London, for instance). Would be interested to know how these Knightly orders faired during the war with Shornhelm, which only ended a few years ago.

[Andrew Perry]

So I'm thinking of creating a new character. Asap, I'll PM you the idea to see if it's okay before I post any further.

Oh, and Vincent, that last post of yours was kinda awesome. You're a great writer, man.

[victoria johnstone]

Wayrest is considered the capital of trade in High Rock. I read it somewhere in one of the guides or something.

[glot]

I like. Also enjoying some explanation for "Old Gate", as normally that sort of name only turns up around the gate of an existing city (Aldgate in London, for instance). Would be interested to know how these Knightly orders faired during the war with Shornhelm, which only ended a few years ago.

I will definitely add those into the descriptions after I come up with something. Thanks!

[Rhysa Hughes]

So I'm thinking of creating a new character. Asap, I'll PM you the idea to see if it's okay before I post any further.

Oh, and Vincent, that last post of yours was kinda awesome. You're a great writer, man.

Alright, sounds good man.

Wayrest is considered the capital of trade in High Rock. I read it somewhere in one of the guides or something.

That's kinda what we were going off of. While Daggerfall is being all traditional and stuck in its ways, Wayrest is enjoying a cultural "renaissance" sort of thing.

[CHANONE]

So, I've been working on that CS, but I have my last two final exams tomorrow and they're fairly large, so I'll stop for the night, but I promise the CS and both Lore articles for the knightly orders will be posted by the end of the week!

[Jade Muggeridge]

Fellow RPers, please excuse my absence. I kinda... forgot/lost inspiration for this. Is it still possible for me to hop back into this?

[Quick Draw III]

Of course just post that your in the city or with the train or somewhere.

[brenden casey]

Circa Daggerfall, yes, but post Warp Wayrest is in ascendency. I think it might even be in a Oblivion rumour that it is established as the new major player and most populous city in High Rock. Can someone else confirm this?

No such rumours I've ever heard of, not even anything relating to High Rock in fact in Oblivion; then again I never played that for any greater lengths of time. And I'm pretty certain Wayrest was always the prime (Bretic, mind you; it still has Sentinel to reckon with) trading port in the Iliac, ever since its ascendancy waaaay back in the First Era. At the very least, no one ever seems to talk about Daggerfall's merchants, whereas they're sort of made a big deal of in Wayrest traditionally, with 'Wayrest, Jewel of the Bay' making it sound like the merchant princes pretty much run the place alongside the monarchs and are the source of its 'eternal wealth'. The situation at large doesn't seem to have changed that much since Daggerfall times, apart from the fact Wayrest now lacks the big stretch of coastal Iliac land it got after the Warp and which I've mentioned before, which has been given over to Daggerfall in one shape or another. Which, depending on when our lore in this territorial respect diverges from the official line, might go on to invalidate whatever happened with Wayrest after the Warp to a greater or lesser degree.

[laila hassan]

it seems that not much has happened, and I can just slip back in unnoticed. Woo! Will post tonight.

[mishionary]

No such rumours I've ever heard of, not even anything relating to High Rock in fact in Oblivion; then again I never played that for any greater lengths of time. And I'm pretty certain Wayrest was always the prime (Bretic, mind you; it still has Sentinel to reckon with) trading port in the Iliac, ever since its ascendancy waaaay back in the First Era. At the very least, no one ever seems to talk about Daggerfall's merchants, whereas they're sort of made a big deal of in Wayrest traditionally, with 'Wayrest, Jewel of the Bay' making it sound like the merchant princes pretty much run the place alongside the monarchs and are the source of its 'eternal wealth'. The situation at large doesn't seem to have changed that much since Daggerfall times, apart from the fact Wayrest now lacks the big stretch of coastal Iliac land it got after the Warp and which I've mentioned before, which has been given over to Daggerfall in one shape or another. Which, depending on when our lore in this territorial respect diverges from the official line, might go on to invalidate whatever happened with Wayrest after the Warp to a greater or lesser degree.

Uesp seems to agree with me, though for some reason they haven't cited it and just outright claimed that Wayrest is now the biggest city. This is why we should use the Imperial Library for everything... I'm pretty sure what I'm thinking of is in lore..somewhere. I can't have imagined this. Every province has a "What news from the other parts of Tamriel" dialogue line, I'm thinking it might be from this. Either way, it isn't a stretch of lore. As a matter of fact is kind of amazing Daggerfall was still the largest city in High Rock, all things considered. You'd imagine if anyone would have an overpopulation problem it'd be Wayrest.

RE: The weird boundaries ...none of them really make sense in light of lore even up to Oblivion. The effort was spent on making them equal. Which of course gives us plenty of licence to fluff history into this shape.

Orisinium SHOULD control the entire Wrothgarian Mountains, all the way around the the Dragontails in Hammerfall, with Wayrest having the whole coastline including Anticlere, as you say. Also, Wayrest is meant to be allied with the Orcs...that clearly didn't work out. For whatever reason, the current boundries show there was some big war, probably Sentinel, Wayrest, Evermore and Gauvadon vs The Orcs, and the Orcs lost. During this conflict,it seems Camlorn snatched the Iliac Coast. That is the best explanation for why Camlorn is so oversized, and Wayrest's boundaries have shifted from a purely coastal power to one that mostly rules mountains. Grumble grumble grumble.

How does that sound?

[Kortniie Dumont]

Not that surprising Daggerfall was the most populated, just proof how Daggerfallians like to get their six on (you just know half of that population is royal bastards). And while Wayrest may have overpopulation issues, I'd imagine they'd stem chiefly from the fact it's hemmed between the mountains and the sea, as opposed to Daggerfall being surrounded by plains and thus in a position to have a larger population without having problems for it.

The population rift can't have been that large though, I always put Wayrest at somewhere just under 100000 people, so as far as I'm concerned we could say there was a population boom of sorts and now Wayrest is the slightly larger of the two. In fact I wouldn't have said anything if Asap hadn't made the foolish and decadent mistake of just saying Wayrest was more populated, awakening in me the urge to show off supply useful information by bringing up that quite recently, the reverse was the case.

I think we can just keep it as the war that no one wants to talk about because it was a huge failure and embarrasing for all involved, and should not be spoken of in civilized company Though maybe leave Sentinel out of it, since we're not dealing with it at all and it can just calmly stay in its lore accurate state.

[Heather Stewart]

Not that surprising Daggerfall was the most populated, just proof how Daggerfallians like to get their six on (you just know half of that population is royal bastards). And while Wayrest may have overpopulation issues, I'd imagine they'd stem chiefly from the fact it's hemmed between the mountains and the sea, as opposed to Daggerfall being surrounded by plains and thus in a position to have a larger population without having problems for it.

The population rift can't have been that large though, I always put Wayrest at somewhere just under 100000 people, so as far as I'm concerned we could say there was a population boom of sorts and now Wayrest is the slightly larger of the two. In fact I wouldn't have said anything if Asap hadn't made the foolish and decadent mistake of just saying Wayrest was more populated, awakening in me the urge to show off supply useful information by bringing up that quite recently, the reverse was the case.

I think we can just keep it as the war that no one wants to talk about because it was a huge failure and embarrasing for all involved, and should not be spoken of in civilized company Though maybe leave Sentinel out of it, since we're not dealing with it at all and it can just calmly stay in its lore accurate state.

Hahaha, okay. But someone must have taken the Orc's huge Hammerfellian holdings. Actually, this brings up another question, what do you suppose the total manpower of the Orcs is? Atm they control a fairly small area (though larger than pre-warp), but you'd imagine the ruler of Orisinium would be able to muster Orismer from throughout Tamriel in a kind of Malakinian Crusade, if it ever came to war. I have no idea how the Orcs even work tbh. In the past defeating them has normally taken a huge alliance of states, and they seem as populous as any other race in Tamriel.

About population, being hemmed in by mountains and sea wouldn't be a problem for Wayrest, just as it wasn't a problem for Venice (who I think are their nearest anologue). A rich trading port, that sits on the main artery of northwest Tamriel (The Bjoulsae River), and the point between Hammerfell and High Rock, could survive entirely on imports from its large trade empire. Land doesn't become an issue until the boundaries of the cities reach the mountains -more of a 20th century problem with Megacities than one for the middle ages. Looking at Wayrest's place in its own county, it has as much space to expand as Daggerfall (also, some maps give islands in the Bjoulsae delta, of which I am so saying there holds more city islands, Venetian style ). Weirdly, while every other captial has a medieval castle for its seat of power, Wayrest has a Palladian style Renaissance Mansion-Palace. The idea of it having the largest force was due to the larger, richer middle class, meaning more people actually able to afford arms than in Daggerfall. While Wayrest does not have the noblest tradition of warfare, or the fiercest knights, it is still probably the best equipped.

...Increasingly I find myself writing a fluff history of Wayrest. Despite having no stake in the Kingdom at all. Oops.

[Tammie Flint]

Uesp seems to agree with me, though for some reason they haven't cited it and just outright claimed that Wayrest is now the biggest city. This is why we should use the Imperial Library for everything... I'm pretty sure what I'm thinking of is in lore..somewhere. I can't have imagined this. Every province has a "What news from the other parts of Tamriel" dialogue line, I'm thinking it might be from this. Either way, it isn't a stretch of lore. As a matter of fact is kind of amazing Daggerfall was still the largest city in High Rock, all things considered. You'd imagine if anyone would have an overpopulation problem it'd be Wayrest.

RE: The weird boundaries ...none of them really make sense in light of lore even up to Oblivion. The effort was spent on making them equal. Which of course gives us plenty of licence to fluff history into this shape.

Orisinium SHOULD control the entire Wrothgarian Mountains, all the way around the the Dragontails in Hammerfall, with Wayrest having the whole coastline including Anticlere, as you say. Also, Wayrest is meant to be allied with the Orcs...that clearly didn't work out. For whatever reason, the current boundries show there was some big war, probably Sentinel, Wayrest, Evermore and Gauvadon vs The Orcs, and the Orcs lost. During this conflict,it seems Camlorn snatched the Iliac Coast. That is the best explanation for why Camlorn is so oversized, and Wayrest's boundaries have shifted from a purely coastal power to one that mostly rules mountains. Grumble grumble grumble.

How does that sound?

Not that surprising Daggerfall was the most populated, just proof how Daggerfallians like to get their six on (you just know half of that population is royal bastards). And while Wayrest may have overpopulation issues, I'd imagine they'd stem chiefly from the fact it's hemmed between the mountains and the sea, as opposed to Daggerfall being surrounded by plains and thus in a position to have a larger population without having problems for it.

The population rift can't have been that large though, I always put Wayrest at somewhere just under 100000 people, so as far as I'm concerned we could say there was a population boom of sorts and now Wayrest is the slightly larger of the two. In fact I wouldn't have said anything if Asap hadn't made the foolish and decadent mistake of just saying Wayrest was more populated, awakening in me the urge to show off supply useful information by bringing up that quite recently, the reverse was the case.

I think we can just keep it as the war that no one wants to talk about because it was a huge failure and embarrasing for all involved, and should not be spoken of in civilized company Though maybe leave Sentinel out of it, since we're not dealing with it at all and it can just calmly stay in its lore accurate state.

I like making stupid statements to spark fluff wars

Hahaha, okay. But someone must have taken the Orc's huge Hammerfellian holdings. Actually, this brings up another question, what do you suppose the total manpower of the Orcs is? Atm they control a fairly small area (though larger than pre-warp), but you'd imagine the ruler of Orisinium would be able to muster Orismer from throughout Tamriel in a kind of Malakinian Crusade, if it ever came to war. I have no idea how the Orcs even work tbh. In the past defeating them has normally taken a huge alliance of states, and they seem as populous as any other race in Tamriel.

About population, being hemmed in by mountains and sea wouldn't be a problem for Wayrest, just as it wasn't a problem for Venice (who I think are their nearest anologue). A rich trading port, that sits on the main artery of northwest Tamriel (The Bjoulsae River), and the point between Hammerfell and High Rock, could survive entirely on imports from its large trade empire. Land doesn't become an issue until the boundaries of the cities reach the mountains -more of a 20th century problem with Megacities than one for the middle ages. Looking at Wayrest's place in its own county, it has as much space to expand as Daggerfall (also, some maps give islands in the Bjoulsae delta, of which I am so saying there holds more city islands, Venetian style ). Weirdly, while every other captial has a medieval castle for its seat of power, Wayrest has a Palladian style Renaissance Mansion-Palace. The idea of it having the largest force was due to the larger, richer middle class, meaning more people actually able to afford arms than in Daggerfall. While Wayrest does not have the noblest tradition of warfare, or the fiercest knights, it is still probably the best equipped.

...Increasingly I find myself writing a fluff history of Wayrest. Despite having no stake in the Kingdom at all. Oops.

I think I stated it in the OP, if I didn't then my bad. During High Rock's secession from the Empire (Pretty much every province jumped out within a few years after Morrowind and Skyrim said "Screw you Imperials, I'm out"). As soon as High Rock was left on its own they started tearing at each others throats. Wars raged between powers large and small. People were declaring themselves independent left and right (which is what caused the mass fracturing of the states and Wayrest's loss of Illiac territory). Those small states on the Illiac ended up getting in a war with Camlorn which ended up in a few of them being conquered and a few others allying themselves under vassalage.

So pretty much as soon as High Rock was out from under the Empire they started getting the idea that they wanted to be their own Kingdoms again and began to secede from not only the Empire, but the larger powers as well. Many stayed loyal throughout, but just as many declared themselves independent (only to be conquered systematically once again to create the current borders).

It's all a big cluster-[censored] of fluff that needs to be fleshed out.......*cough* PFA, Vincent *cough*

I would really like to sit down and work all of that stuff out with you two though, as well as anyone else who wants to help. I was going to make a wiki that acts almost like a history text book. We could have detailed chapters in a timeline manner describing the many conflicts that sprung up after the fracturing of the Empire. As well as individual sections for each state.

[Phillip Brunyee]

I'm back out again.

[Sara Lee]

I might make another character once all of this party business is over.

[Dean Brown]

I think I stated it in the OP, if I didn't then my bad. During High Rock's secession from the Empire (Pretty much every province jumped out within a few years after Morrowind and Skyrim said "Screw you Imperials, I'm out"). As soon as High Rock was left on its own they started tearing at each others throats. Wars raged between powers large and small. People were declaring themselves independent left and right (which is what caused the mass fracturing of the states and Wayrest's loss of Illiac territory). Those small states on the Illiac ended up getting in a war with Camlorn which ended up in a few of them being conquered and a few others allying themselves under vassalage.

So pretty much as soon as High Rock was out from under the Empire they started getting the idea that they wanted to be their own Kingdoms again and began to secede from not only the Empire, but the larger powers as well. Many stayed loyal throughout, but just as many declared themselves independent (only to be conquered systematically once again to create the current borders).

It's all a big cluster-[censored] of fluff that needs to be fleshed out.......*cough* PFA, Vincent *cough*

I would really like to sit down and work all of that stuff out with you two though, as well as anyone else who wants to help. I was going to make a wiki that acts almost like a history text book. We could have detailed chapters in a timeline manner describing the many conflicts that sprung up after the fracturing of the Empire. As well as individual sections for each state.

Once I get my stuff written up, since I'm done with school for the summer and have a rather easy summer ahead, I'd love to help out, assuming PFA and Vincent think I have what it takes, haha

[Alkira rose Nankivell]

Once I get my stuff written up, since I'm done with school for the summer and have a rather easy summer ahead, I'd love to help out, assuming PFA and Vincent think I have what it takes, haha

I am also willing to assist once I am done with school. I can help organize and write for the wiki (something Athell and I are pros at)

[remi lasisi]

Sweet. I'll get around to getting the Wiki up sometime this week and then we can all start working on it.

[Lynette Wilson]

How likely are you to take on a newbie to the forums who isn't unfamiliar to role-playing?

[Shae Munro]

Sweet. I'll get around to getting the Wiki up sometime this week and then we can all start working on it.

Excellent. Can you send me what you have written up for your timeline already?

[City Swagga]

How likely are you to take on a newbie to the forums who isn't unfamiliar to role-playing?

You're very welcome to join if you'd like.

I suggest reading through http://www.gamesas.com/topic/747418-so-you-think-you-can-rp/ Take it with a grain (more like a teaspoon) of salt though. She's very harsh and a lot of the things she has in there can be ignored or bent in certain circumstances. However, reading the guide tends to give a good idea of how to conduct yourself in an RP and how to properly participate in one.

If you have any questions at all feel free to ask them here or PM them to me.

[Harry-James Payne]

Excellent. Can you send me what you have written up for your timeline already?

I'm still working on it. I barely have things down and organized into one document. It's more like 10 different things that loosely correlate to one another and only make sense in my head when I look at them

I'll get to working on it this week and put them up here.