Prisoner : V - Skyrim

» Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:45 pm

Arena and Morrowind had prison intros. You WERE, and this is not arguable, WERE in the position of a prisoner in both of those games, and while it isn't set in stone, that background in Daggerfall is set in text, as in you cannot change or edit it. Oblivion's was the only one of the four games that didn't tell why you were where you were, and that doesn't mean you have to pull an excuse out of your ass. It only means you get to actually choose your background, for once. You like customization, yes? Personally, being forced to be a member of the royal court or being forced to start off as the Emperor's friend with a childhood weapon proficieny and background I don't want seem far worse to me than being in jail and not knowing why.

Oh its arguable alright. Arena wise, the PC is place in a hellhole dungeon left for dead. S/he wasn't a prisoner at all to begin with. Simple as that.

Daggerfall-wise, its a template, but not set in stone in regard to what ya toon is really is or how ya make it. It helps but its not absolute.

Morrowind-wise, for all we know, Juib is the one that was in the Imperial Prison and sent to Morrowind while ya made be
a: just a traveler looking for a cheap fare
b: a secret agent that use the boat to hide his/her id
c: wanted to move away and the prison ship is the only one, only to be mistaken to be a tool of the emperor.

But all an all, ya start out from a ship and NOT in a prison cell.

Oblivion-wise, one is stuck in prison, no matter the background; with chains and all. This is by far the most crappiest and the worst intro of the Series have to offer so far. Its could have been done differently in so many ways.

And of course, the royal family in one way or another, part of the Main quest. That is not avoidable.

» Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:07 am

Oh its arguable alright. Arena wise, the PC is place in a hellhole dungeon left for dead. S/he wasn't a prisoner at all to begin with. Simple as that.

Daggerfall-wise, its a template, but not set in stone in regard to what ya toon is really is or how ya make it. It helps but its not absolute.

Morrowind-wise, for all we know, Juib is the one that was in the Imperial Prison and sent to Morrowind while ya made be
a: just a traveler looking for a cheap fare
b: a secret agent that use the boat to hide his/her id
c: wanted to move away and the prison ship is the only one, only to be mistaken to be a tool of the emperor.

But all an all, ya start out from a ship and NOT in a prison cell.

Oblivion-wise, one is stuck in prison, no matter the background; with chains and all. This is by far the most crappiest and the worst intro of the Series have to offer so far. Its could have been done differently in so many ways.

And of course, the royal family in one way or another, part of the Main quest. That is not avoidable.

Definition of PRISONER
1: a person deprived of liberty and kept under involuntary restraint, confinement, or custody; especially : one on trial or in prison
2: someone restrained as if in prison

-www.merriam-webster.com

As for Daggerfall's, the text is there no matter what. It is set and your background is written, as is your reason for being in the jail cell in Arena, yet people are complaining about Oblivion when it allows more customization than its predecessors? Did I miss something? In Arena, you are stuck in a prison cell and left for dead by Tharn for being feared by him, no matter what. In Daggerfall, your background IS set for you and you are in a cave after your ship crashed while you were on a mission for the emperor, no matter what. In Morrowind, you are on a prison ship and are believed to be the Nerevarine by the now clearly senile old man who can spot heroes just by meeting them, no matter what. In Oblivion, you are stuck in a prison, no matter what, but you don't know for sure why you are. It's been hinted that the gods have placed you there or that it may have been fate, as a comment from the emperor, the lack of knowledge of any crimes the PC has, and your supposed misplacement indicate, but there is no specified reason and even if you believe the god theory, you have option of being a person who doesn't give a crap of what the gods think.

Azura latched onto you in Morrowind, regardless of what you think, but you could still think what you wanted to. Any other gods doing the same thing in Oblivion isn't any more restrictive than being chosen by Azura/Uriel Septim in Morrowind, Uriel Septim in Arena, or Ria Silmane in Arena. You're trying to argue that Oblivion's introduction was more restrictive than those of its predecessors, but it just isn't. Your reason for being where you are is not defined in Oblivion, yet it is in past games, with your entire youth being chosen for you in Daggerfall, and this is not an opinion. You are trying to pretend those backgrounds didn't exist and come up with your own, yet you can't manage to handle starting off in a prison cell you're not even supposed to be in for no defined crimes in Oblivion in a much more open-ended style? If it isn't bashing for the sake of bashing, I don't know what is. Do you like customization or not? Why is having a pre-defined reason for being in prison better than having a more open-ended approach to it? Whether you like it or not, in Arena and in Morrowind, you are in the position of a prisoner. You are either locked up in a cell or thrown on a prison ship against your will, hence you are a prisoner, but those games say why. Why is it so hard to say why in Oblivion? You don't start off being whipped and tortured by prison guards as they try to beat a confession out of you for why you killed a certain person, or something.

The way the guard in Morrowind's prison ship talks to you and the way that your character is pretty poorly equipped and on a ship with another very poorly equipped person against your will indicates, pretty strongly, that you are a prisoner. At that point, it's about the same as Oblivion's introduction in terms of open-endedness.

» Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:04 am

Definition of PRISONER
1: a person deprived of liberty and kept under involuntary restraint, confinement, or custody; especially : one on trial or in prison
2: someone restrained as if in prison

-www.merriam-webster.com

Being left to get kill does not fit ya definition. And I am putting this in a "Prison Cell" sense rather than being a prisoner to destiny.

As for Daggerfall's, the text is there no matter what. It is set and your background is written, as is your reason for being in the jail cell in Arena, yet people are complaining about Oblivion when it allows more customization than its predecessors? Did I miss something? In Arena, you are stuck in a prison cell and left for dead by Tharn for being feared by him, no matter what. In Daggerfall, your background IS set for you and you are in a cave after your ship crashed while you were on a mission for the emperor, no matter what. In Morrowind, you are on a prison ship and are believed to be the Nerevarine by the now clearly senile old man who can spot heroes just by meeting them, no matter what. In Oblivion, you are stuck in a prison, no matter what, but you don't know for sure why you are. It's been hinted that the gods have placed you there or that it may have been fate, as a comment from the emperor, the lack of knowledge of any crimes the PC has, and your supposed misplacement indicate, but there is no specified reason and even if you believe the god theory, you have option of being a person who doesn't give a crap of what the gods think.

Azura latched onto you in Morrowind, regardless of what you though, but you could still think what you wanted to. Any other gods doing the same thing in Oblivion isn't any more restrictive than being chosen by Azura/Uriel Septim in Morrowind, Uriel Septim in Arena, or Ria Silmane in Arena. You're trying to argue that Oblivion's introduction was more restrictive than those of its predecessors, but it just isn't. Your reason for being where you are is not defined in Oblivion, yet it is in past games, with your entire youth being chosen for you in Daggerfall, and this is not an opinion. You are trying to pretend those backgrounds didn't exist and come up with your own, yet you can't manage to handle starting off in a prison cell you're not even supposed to be in for no defined crimes in Oblivion in a much more open-ended style? If it isn't bashing for the sake of bashing, I don't know what is. Do you like customization or not? Why is having a pre-defined reason for being in prison better than having a more open-ended approach to it? Whether you like it or not, in Arena and in Morrowind, you are in the position of a prisoner. You are either locked up in a cell or thrown on a prison ship against your will, hence you are a prisoner, but those games say why. Why is it so hard to say why in Oblivion? You don't start off being whipped and tortured by prison guards as they try to beat a confession out of you for why you killed a certain person, or something.

Again, Daggerfall-wise, like I said before, the template is there, but does not mean that it is absolute. Its there to help as a tool and can be easily past off. The True intro is talking to the Emperor and being shipwreak. This is unavoidable and this is the intro of what Daggerfall is.

As for Arena, its a cell in a dungeon full of treasure, goblins, rats, and thieves. There is really no way that the place of say is really a prison due to these very reason. There no guard, there no prisoners, no other "cells". Just one big hell hole of a dungeon.

Morrowind-wise, we can talk about the fact that Azura hardly did anything at all and the PC make is own path rather than being a puppet to Azura.

I am arguing that the player is place in a Prison Cell and that is all. This is want Oblivion does and that alone does not leave me favor for that game unless its modded out. If anything what ya saying, its more that the player is a prisoner to the Main Quest. I can live with that. Its how it started that is restricting. To me, being stuck in a prison cell already screw up how I wanted my background for my toon to be, not to mention that it is not very "dignified". Its narrow and alot less open to how one can startout compare to the rest of the other games. Being in prison ship with little indication that ya were a prisoner at all leave more open hole than being a prisoner in a Prison Cell. Being stuck and left for dead because ya a threat to a big bad in Arena is still more open then just being place in a Prison Cell.