Processor Speed And Performance : IV

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:41 pm

I had a post in another thread where I said that going from a 2.6Ghz processor to a 3.6Ghz processor did not do much to improve my game. Had a few replies that confirmed that statement and listed the game engine as the problem. Well, I figured that a faster cpu had to mean better performance as it processed things quicker, especially with the same mods installed in both cases. So when I got home tonight I decided to clone my install (Thanks MOM!), strip down my mods to the core and do some tests, hoping my level 15 character save from the full list would load. Luckily it did and I was able to get some interesting comparisons.

My hardware:
AMD 3.6Ghz Quad Core CPU
AMD 6950 Video card with 2GB VRAM (ATI card)
16 GB RAM
Win7 Pro 64 bit

Mods Installed:
Active Mod Files:

Spoiler

00  Oblivion.esm01  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm  [Version 5.0]02  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm  [Version 5.0]03  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.73]04  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]05  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]06  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]07  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.3.6]08  DLCShiveringIsles.esp09  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.3]0A  Francesco's Creatures and Items Resources.esp  [Version 5.0]0B  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp  [Version 5.0]0C  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp  [Version 5.0]0D  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp  [Version 5.0]0E  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp  [Version 5.0]0F  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]10  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]11  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]12  Symphony of Violence.esp13  PCSoundKensai.esp  [Version 2.7]14  Days&Months.esp15  Display Stats.esp  [Version 2.0.1]16  DropLitTorchOBSE.esp  [Version 2.4]17  kuerteeAutoSaveAndTime.esp18  Streamline 3.1.esp19  Dynamic Map.esp  [Version 2.1.1]1A  Map Marker Overhaul.esp  [Version 3.9.3]1B  Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp  [Version 3.9.3]1C  DLCHorseArmor.esp1D  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.6]1E  DLCOrrery.esp1F  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]20  DLCVileLair.esp21  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.7]22  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp23  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]24  DLCSpellTomes.esp25  DLCThievesDen.esp26  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]27  MMM_Runeskull_Rebalance_BETA2.esp  [Version Beta]28  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.73]29  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp  [Version 1.09]2A  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB5]2B  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]2C  Alluring Potion Bottles v3.esp2D  Alluring Wine Bottles.esp2E  OMOBS_SI.esp  [Version 2.0]2F  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]30  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]31  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]32  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]33  FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp  [Version 0.9.9]34  FCOM_SpawnRatesStronger.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]35  FCOM_NoWyverns.esp  [Version 0.9.9]36  Mart's Monster Mod - No Pests.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]37  Mart's Monster Mod - No Swarms.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]38  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]39  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3A  Mart's Monster Mod - No Reavers.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3B  Mart's Monster Mod - No Carrion Rats.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3C  Mart's Monster Mod - No Giants.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3D  Mart's Monster Mod - No Undead Rise.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3E  Mart's Monster Mod - No Slimes.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3F  Mart's Monster Mod - No Fiends.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]40  Mart's Monster Mod - No Beholdens.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]41  Mart's Monster Mod - No Uberhulks.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]42  Mart's Monster Mod - No Skeep.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]43  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]44  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]45  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot OOO.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]46  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]47  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]48  FCOM_FriendlierFactions.esp  [Version 0.9.9]49  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.73]4A  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp4B  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.6]4C  DLCFrostcrag.esp4D  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]4E  Knights.esp4F  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.1.1]50  SM Plugin Refurbish(Merged).esp  [Version 1.30]51  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]52  FCOM_SlofsHorses.esp53  Dungeon Actors Have Torches 1.6 DT.esp54  Jhaerik's Dungeon Fog Remover.esp55  Less Annoying Oblivion.esp56  Oblivifall - Ambiant Dungeon SFX.esp  [Version 1.2]57  Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp  [Version 3.2.0]58  Alternative Beginnings.esp  [Version 1.2.5]59  MQSDone.esp5A  dyseso_Light_Ingred.esp5B  DenockArrowToo.esp5C  Duke Patricks - Near Miss Magic And Arrows Alert The Target.esp  [Version 7.1]5D  Duke Patricks - Fresh Kills Now Alert The NPCs.esp  [Version 4]5E  Phitt's Phighting Phixes.esp5F  Atmospheric Loading Screens - No Text.esp60  Mart's Monster Mod - Wearable Werewolf Armor.esp61  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot beta Place After Bashed Patch.esp

Also running OSR, 4GB patch, weOCPS, OBGE.
I did the tests using game companion. Not textures installed. VRAM usage stayed around 200MB.

I conducted the test at Fort Homestead as that has a good number of enemies especially with FCOM.

I met 6 enemies at the fort entrance. I was in god mode and let them beat on me, looking around. At had a good 20-26 FPS through out the fight.
I then went inside and lit my torch. Had a group of 6 more enemies, some had torches. Combat FPS was 11-15.
Went into the final room where I had 9-11 enemies. Some had torches. Combat FPS was between 3-11, stayed arounf 5-6 most of the time.

Repeated without dungeon actors have torches, loading from the beginning save outside.
Outside fort entrance with the 6 enemies my FPS was similar as before with 20-26 FPS.
Went inside with torch. The 6 enemies here with torches had my FPS around 12-18. Slight improvement.
Went in final room with 9-11 enemies. I do not recall any torches but mine and the 2 (I think) flames burning. FPS was 8-12. Much improved.

On both test I notices that if I faced away from everyone and looked at the door my FPS would go to between 18-26, both tests.

I then disabled OSR. FPS dropped between 2-4 on both test. So OSR is a good thing to have.

What other conclusions can I draw from this?

1. Having lights in your FOV will decrease FPS regardless of the video card or processor speed, to unplayable.

2. AI processing on NPCs and their scrips is not an issue for a decent processor as these were processed during my tests, when I was not facing the NPCs. I do not know how this relates to what some call AI overload.

3. A great video card with a bunch of VRAM will not help when there are lights around. Including fireball spells.

4. If you are on the borderline with performance do not use anything that adds lights to the game - like actors have torches.

5. If you have to fight a bunch of NPCs, do it outside in daylight or have them chase you where there are least light sources.

Perhaps same can be said about number of objects, I do not know. The problem seems to me, is how the game handles the drawing of lights in relation to cpu/video card.

I am looking for confirmation of my conclusions, contradictory results (and how you got them), secrets to improve this (less known tweaks and utilities), and all around advice.

I remember when Oblivion came out people said there is no computer made yet that can run it on full settings. Well, I do not think there ever will be. If a 3.6Ghz cpu and a AMD 6950 card with 2GB VRAM cannot handle lighting well, then what will?

PS: I once mentioned that maybe the bashed patch and all the tags was a cause of the slowdowns as I do not remember that happening before. That was not the case in my tests. I did both with and without a bashed patch and could see no noticeable difference. So let me squelch that idea right here. Was grasping at straws there.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:45 pm

Question: What's OSR? I feel I should know that acronym, but its not coming to me.

Anyway, interesting results.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:23 pm

Question: What's OSR? I feel I should know that acronym, but its not coming to me.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23208

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:40 am

Interesting results. So I guess removing torches from levelled lists and inventories would be the next logical step for somebody looking to improve their fps.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:56 pm

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23208

Durr! I knew that. I've been meaning to try it out.

Peter, were you using 4.1, or one of the WIPs?

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:02 pm

I'm using the 4.1.24 RC and that works perfectly. I have not tried the 4.1.26 WIP. Try the default .ini first, then after a while when it is running stable, possibly try switching on the HeapMode feature. In my rig, heapmode "1" is working fine. I cap the FPS at 30.

Peter, I can nothing but agree to your findings. Nowadays graphics is not the issue at all with Oblivion. I play on 1680*1050 resolution with 16x AF and 2xAA and Bloom and in-game settings almost fully cranked up (water, drawing distances), with no major texture replacers at this time with a medium/high graphics card (see sig). RAM usage is never above about 35%, maybe 40% and GPU usage on the card is around 40% normally, max is like 60% or so. I could definitely crank up on video settings and textures.

But I still get slowdowns entering the IC Market District: lots of NPC's, lot of scripts, sometimes torches. After an initial slowdown it gets better again (FPS high 20ies, even 30 again). Shadows by the way are also confirmed FPS killers in OB.

One additional word about OSR: Skyranger-1 has done an amazing job with that. I have been using OSR forever, and nowadays the 4.1.24 is almost a miracle. In the instance described above (IC MD), the combined CPU usage on my dual core (see sig) goes up to about 75%. That means a "parallelisation improvement" of about 50 - 60% over the practically single-core vanilla processing. Skyranger has really developed this over time. Even older versions of OSR were not that good in making OB to better use multiple cores.

Maybe the WIP 4.1.26 is even better. But I'm reluctant to try it because .24 is working perfectly. Is any of you guys using the 4.1.26?

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:46 pm

I'm using OSR 4.1.26 and there's no significant difference in performance between than and 4.1.24. Like all the other hardware solutions, OSR can only compensate so much for the terrible engine design Oblivion is stuck with.

As far as hardware, I've upgraded my PC several times over the lifespan of Oblivion and I'd say after hitting the 2.5GHz CPU range along with the ATI 4870 card, there were no further gains to be made. Both have been upgraded and neither offered even a single frame more than I was already getting. The game is hamstrung by its own inability to use more than one CPU core even under OSR's influence.

No more striking example need be mentioned than to look at Fallout 3, which is multi-core aware and performs flawlessly (well, for me at least) even when overloaded with 4096x4096 textures.

Same story for Skyrim really. Buttery smoothness, rock solid stable. There might be headroom for more hardware upgrades, but why? Not a single title out today is built to push a PC to its breaking point. We passed that a long time ago when everyone decided the Xbox 360 represents the height of gaming.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:40 pm

I'm using the 4.1.24 RC and that works perfectly. I have not tried the 4.1.26 WIP. Try the default .ini first, then after a while when it is running stable, possibly try switching on the HeapMode feature. In my rig, heapmode "1" is working fine. I cap the FPS at 30.

Peter, I can nothing but agree to your findings. Nowadays graphics is not the issue at all with Oblivion. I play on 1680*1050 resolution with 16x AF and 2xAA and Bloom and in-game settings almost fully cranked up (water, drawing distances), with no major texture replacers at this time with a medium/high graphics card (see sig). RAM usage is never above about 35%, maybe 40% and GPU usage on the card is around 40% normally, max is like 60% or so. I could definitely crank up on video settings and textures.

But I still get slowdowns entering the IC Market District: lots of NPC's, lot of scripts, sometimes torches. After an initial slowdown it gets better again (FPS high 20ies, even 30 again). Shadows by the way are also confirmed FPS killers in OB.

One additional word about OSR: Skyranger-1 has done an amazing job with that. I have been using OSR forever, and nowadays the 4.1.24 is almost a miracle. In the instance described above (IC MD), the combined CPU usage on my dual core (see sig) goes up to about 75%. That means a "parallelisation improvement" of about 50 - 60% over the practically single-core vanilla processing. Skyranger has really developed this over time. Even older versions of OSR were not that good in making OB to better use multiple cores.

Maybe the WIP 4.1.26 is even better. But I'm reluctant to try it because .24 is working perfectly. Is any of you guys using the 4.1.26?

Very cool. I'll have to try out OSR, probably after I do my next backup.

You have the same processor I do (Core2 Duo E8400), so good to know that OSR can get more out of it.

My main FPS problem has been BBB related, though its so very strange. Sometimes I'll be around a bunch of female NPC, all bouncing, and its fine, and then at other times I'll be alone in a room with one and the frame rate goes to hell.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:49 pm

I can't help you with the BBB issue specifically as I do not use BBB models. Generally speaking, some things (issues, slowdowns) are "god given" with Oblivion, like entering the IC or the torches that Peter described. Maybe yours is one of them. :shrug:

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:55 pm

Not a single title out today is built to push a PC to its breaking point. We passed that a long time ago when everyone decided the Xbox 360 represents the height of gaming.

:sigh: You are so correct. Not even Crysis2 was/is the expected pusher...

If OB had a good / more modern engine, with all the cool mods to play with, then even Skyrim would have a hard time competing. Well... probably only until mods for SR come out in force...

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:36 am

... thanks!

See, I've always wondered why Mir Corrup (in Integration) can bring even the mightiest PC... well, not to its knees, but into FPS ranges in which stuttering becomes noticeable. I thought it could have something to do with the NPCs (although I've set them up so that never more than six should be outside), however if lights are the issue, then I guess I can remove some of them to increase perfomance.

Interesting find. Thanks again!

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:18 pm

As to torches, I've long known them to be a drag on performance. My avatar does not fast-travel, and spends a good ninety-five percent of his 'wilderness' travel time on horse. He obviously dismounts periodically to engage in combat en route. Should he be traveling at night, with torch in hand, mounting can be a staggered affair, executed in stages. I'll activate his mount. He begins to mount, freezes, unfreezes and get a little higher, freezes again, then unfreezes and finishes the maneurver. Even Vilja mounting with torch in hand can cause lesser but noticeable stutter. These torch-in-hand horse-mounting animations are just about the only time I experience any sort of slowdown with avatar animation. Note that they do not always occur. Sometimes my avatar's torch-in-hand mounting animation is smooth as butter.

That said, wielding torches in the dark is one of my favorite aspects of game-play. One I don't intend to abandon. (I find permanent enchantment-based night-eye and similar magical effects immersion-breaking so don't use them.) In fact DropLitTorchesOBSE was one of the very first mods I installed and remains a favorite to this day. (I know there are newer Torch mods, but their documentation all refer to compromises I am unwilling to accept.)

While I will not give up DLTOBSE, torch performance hit has kept me for installing mods that allow more NPCs to bear torches, which I would surely use otherwise.

-Decrepit-

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:16 pm

What about the Shining Creatures mod? The creatures also count as light sources.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:32 pm

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. Couple thoughts on what everyone posted:

But I still get slowdowns entering the IC Market District: lots of NPC's, lot of scripts, sometimes torches. After an initial slowdown it gets better again (FPS high 20ies, even 30 again). Shadows by the way are also confirmed FPS killers in OB.

Same here. But if you face away from the action the FPS go way up. Even if you look at the action, after a few seconds, the FPS improve. So it is the initial load/draw which slows things down. After that, AI processing does not seem to affect performance as that would happen regardless where your FOV is, it is the drawing of everything on the screen. And yes, the lower the screen resolution the faster it works, at least in my experience. So in the IC, there a re a few light sources. I seem to have the same performance whether they a lit or unlit, at least that is my perception. Makes me think it may not necessarily be active light but a light enabled source. This does not seem to happen with all the "fake" lights in ruins or all the "fake" lighting from varla and weklynd stones. What can we infer from that?

I'm using OSR 4.1.26 and there's no significant difference in performance between than and 4.1.24. Like all the other hardware solutions, OSR can only compensate so much for the terrible engine design Oblivion is stuck with.

Same here. I use the 4.1.26 heap 6. Heap 5 works about the same. I do not use it to manage my FPS. Regardless, it does improve smoothness and FPS.

As far as hardware, I've upgraded my PC several times over the lifespan of Oblivion and I'd say after hitting the 2.5GHz CPU range along with the ATI 4870 card, there were no further gains to be made. Both have been upgraded and neither offered even a single frame more than I was already getting. The game is hamstrung by its own inability to use more than one CPU core even under OSR's influence.

I hear that brother. Going from a 2.66Ghz to a 3.6Ghz did not help much, just some. The only benefit from my 6950 2GB video card is I can run more textures without stuttering when video ram would swap.

My main FPS problem has been BBB related, though its so very strange. Sometimes I'll be around a bunch of female NPC, all bouncing, and its fine, and then at other times I'll be alone in a room with one and the frame rate goes to hell.

If using high textures look at the vram usage to see if you are at your video card limit which could account for the slowness. Interiors mean lighting also and objects. However, with one NPC nothing should cause the game to slow other than processing of something (possibly a script) when in that situation. Test it with other NPCs or companions with you to see if there is a difference. If they are all CM based or from Share And Recruit that could point to something. I had many a companion and what you describe I never experienced, makes me think it is specific to you and can be fixed. Check your FPC by facing a wall in this situation also, then rotate FOV until it drops and see what is in view.

See, I've always wondered why Mir Corrup (in Integration) can bring even the mightiest PC... well, not to its knees, but into FPS ranges in which stuttering becomes noticeable. I thought it could have something to do with the NPCs (although I've set them up so that never more than six should be outside), however if lights are the issue, then I guess I can remove some of them to increase perfomance.

Any idea on difference between torch/street lights and ambient lighting? Switch the two and see if it changes. If the fake lights in ruins do not drop FPS but provide the same light, might be worth investigating. I do not know hot to modify a mod to test that theory.

That said, wielding torches in the dark is one of my favorite aspects of game-play. One I don't intend to abandon. (I find permanent enchantment-based night-eye and similar magical effects immersion-breaking so don't use them.) In fact DropLitTorchesOBSE was one of the very first mods I installed and remains a favorite to this day. (I know there are newer Torch mods, but their documentation all refer to compromises I am unwilling to accept.)

I do love the way you play the game

My solution to this is to hot key a Ring Of Light (20ft radius) instead of a torch. Only other ring I found is the grand ring of light 100ft but that is too immersion breaking for me. Leaves me only with one ring for other uses like reflect spell or shield. Lowers view distance and I get jumped alot since I do not play with music most of the time. Makes me wonder if a ring of light has the same impact as a torch? What if someone replaced light sources on NPCs with a ring of light to see the impact.

What about the Shining Creatures mod? The creatures also count as light sources.

I have not tried that mod. I think it may depend on how the light is made if I am correct in my assumption that there is a difference between flame lighting and other lighting. In my tests the fireball spells had an impact but I do not know if that is from the casting and trajectory or the flame burning effect when it strikes something.

Well that is my two cents worth. Hope someone can try the ideas out in a mod to see the differences in lighting methods. I am glad to not be alone in my experience and will be glad to offer further feedback.

I think this may have been the longest post I ever made

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:05 am

Light sources can play havoc on the FPS game, but I think one of the reasons for this is the shadows lighting provides. Turn down the shadows and you'll probably see a nice FPS increase. Or at least that's what helped me in my quest for higher FPS.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:49 pm

Light sources can play havoc on the FPS game, but I think one of the reasons for this is the shadows lighting provides. Turn down the shadows and you'll probably see a nice FPS increase. Or at least that's what helped me in my quest for higher FPS.

Do you mean using the sliders for internal and external shadows?

Also, is this a GPU or CPU issue with the shadows? Seems my better GPU did not make much of a difference, is my impression.

Further, this would affect shadows cast by objects in relation to the light source and not necessarily the darker areas vs light areas in a dungeon?

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:16 pm

Should help... this way the CPU doesn't have to calculate the direction on which cast the shadow based on the light sources in the area... at least in theory.

Actors Have Torches has always been a problem in this account, lights everywhere during night. Nice. Realistic. but FPS slowing.
But never as CM Partners for me. That was the "Smoothness Enemy #1" for me, but that's only AI processing... another story.

EDIT: Typos

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:53 pm

If you speed up CPU but don't gain improvement, then it means the performance is limited by GPU.
You can spend a lot of money to upgrade you GPU or...

1. Decrease the LOD object.
Though LOD mod such as AEVWD or RAEVWD are eye candy but they slow your game indeed.
There are options in RAEVWD to choose which LOD object to be generated, so you may cut some unnecessary LOD object and regenerate LOD.

2. Deactivate some Shader from OBGE.
The more shaders you use, the more FPS hit your game would suffer.
Please activate shaders which are really essential.
I only activate Liquid Water, MDLAA, and God Ray.

3. Turn off tdt console command.
The tdt command is convenient to monitor FPS, but sometimes it would cause huge FPS hit for no reason when you encounter enemies in dungeon.

My hardware:
CPU: Intel i5 750 4.2G
RAM: Kingston 1600 2GB*4
VGA: EVGA GTX480

I would get about 10 FPS when I generate all optional LOD objects in RAEVWD and activate too many OBGE shaders.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:44 pm

My hardware:
CPU: Intel i5 750 4.2G
RAM: Kingston 1600 2GB*4
VGA: EVGA GTX480

I would get about 10 FPS when I generate all optional LOD objects in RAEVWD and activate too many OBGE shaders.

You pretty much have top-notch HW. I would be very interested to know what is the GPU processor usage on the videocard when you hit minimum FPS, and your normal range of GPU usage? A tool like MSI Afterburner will register it. After gaming you can review it. It's a good tool, I use it. My hunch is that GPU usage is not the problem, even at 10 FPS.

Also it would be interesting to know the monitor resolution that you play with, and whether you use HDR lighting and AA, and possibly transparency AA.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:39 am

If you speed up CPU but don't gain improvement, then it means the performance is limited by GPU.

And while this may be true, if you upgrade the CPU significantly and it does not help and THEN you upgrade the video card significantly and it too does not help, then you are left with the only other logical conclusion: The game engine itself svcks balls. Which is what we have here in Oblivion.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:40 pm

I reduced my exterior shadows and installed a Low Poly grass mod, which has not made outstanding changes, but it's certainly feels faster near light sources and endless meadows. Previously, particularly near Oblivion gates, I found myself using ToggleGrass to increase my combat FPS.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:47 pm

And while this may be true, if you upgrade the CPU significantly and it does not help and THEN you upgrade the video card significantly and it too does not help, then you are left with the only other logical conclusion: The game engine itself svcks balls. Which is what we have here in Oblivion.

And that is what I have but only in the interiors with many lights during fights AND having the lights in FOV. Other than that I get very playable performance (FPS does not matter as long as the game is smooth). A 6950 with 3GB vram and a 3.6Ghz processor are pretty good as far as hardware goes. Oblivion engine just svcks but if OSR could be created than maybe something similar can be done for the lights issue?

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:19 am

I reduced my exterior shadows and installed a Low Poly grass mod, which has not made outstanding changes, but it's certainly feels faster near light sources and endless meadows. Previously, particularly near Oblivion gates, I found myself using ToggleGrass to increase my combat FPS.

Outdoor fighting during day is not bad, even with scamps casting fireballs. In my test the issue was in the interior space with lights when the lights are in FOV. I will try with shadows turned off and load the interior fight to see if that makes a difference tonight. other than that, I hope someone can explain how the game handles processing of lights in relation to cpu and gpu. I will also try a lower resolution than 1680x1050 on the interior to see how that changes things.

I do not use AA, FAA, or any interior shaders (I only use godrays). I use HDR. Did not have real lights installed for the test nor improved fires and flames.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:14 am

Oblivion engine just svcks but if OSR could be created than maybe something similar can be done for the lights issue?

Just 2 quick comments:

1. Further development of OSR or something similar I think is highly unlikely. Skyranger-1 is obviously a genius in this respect and he was extremely dedicated to his tool. I doubt there is another person sufficiently knowledgeable and willing to remedy the engine any further at this stage of the game's lifecycle. We have Skyrim now (I have not yet started it) and people will focus on improving any defects (engine and/or gamplay) there.

I have not read from Skyranger-1 in a while. I hope he is all happy and well, and we OB players must always be thankful for he gave us.

2. Bethesda knowing what the engine could - and especially could not - handle was probably (I am speculating though) part of the vanilla design decision not to spawn too many NPC's and stuff they can do (lights, spells) at any one time (for the most part). The fairly empty vanilla world maybe was not all because of Beth laziness. Back then, in 2006 we were all single core mostly, IIRC. And those CPU's were only so good (not good).

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:34 am

You pretty much have top-notch HW. I would be very interested to know what is the GPU processor usage on the videocard when you hit minimum FPS, and your normal range of GPU usage? A tool like MSI Afterburner will register it. After gaming you can review it. It's a good tool, I use it. My hunch is that GPU usage is not the problem, even at 10 FPS.

Also it would be interesting to know the monitor resolution that you play with, and whether you use HDR lighting and AA, and possibly transparency AA.

It's higher than average, but far from top.
:rolleyes:
The tool I use is EVGA Precision.
When I hit minimum FPS, the GPU usage is about 100%.
If I generate all objects from RAEVWD, normal range of GPU usage is about 70%.
Now I deleted all LOD objects and use http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25052 to cover LOD instead. (With distant landscape, tree, and building activated.)
I use http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=40549 to fix LOD meshes as well.
I used to activate 8X AA and 8X transparency AA, but I disable AA now because OBGE is not compatible with Nvidia AA. (Enforcing AA through Nvidia inspector would cause some problem.)
By the way, OBGE water is really a FPS killer...
I always activate HDR because it looks much better than Bloom, though it is sometimes too bright.
After deleting LOD objects, normal range of GPU usage is about 20%, but raise to 100% when my character is running constantly.

My "monitor" is SONY 40NX800, which is a 40 inch led TV to be precisely. I am using it's max resolution, 1920X1080.