so you are going to work 8 hours to buy a video game so you can work virtually?

Again I'll refer back to Bloodmoon. Owning the Thirsk Mead Hall was great because I didn't actually have to be there. Svenja Snow-Song basically ran the place. I'll tell her to send out hunters for pelts to sell, order mead, etc.

About the only thing that would have made the whole thing better would have been if I could have married her and then I'd have more to come home to than just some gold and giving more orders. Course eventually I was busy running my own colony at Raven Rock. Dang I really loved those parts of BM. I hope it's in Skyrim or at least added as a DLC later on.

This. Different abilities such as cooking, blacksmithing, and fishing would make the game a lot more fun imo but being payed to perform repetitive tasks either via minigames is dull. I suppose they could give you unlimited supplies and pay you for it, but I'm not sure if that's the best solution either.

Here's a thought. You're a chef, and you need to work with specific recipes. It would sort of work like a mix between Dark Messiah's forging, but in a kitchen, and alchemy. I suppose it could work, but it may be too much to implement correctly.

so you're going to work 8 hrs ot buy something you don't need at all, wasting away time when you could be playing a sport or making more friends, or doing something productive in society? LOL Like it when people put your logic against you sir?

=/ You try to make it seem like we're Working virtually when no...we're not. It takes maybe a few minutes and in some cases hours to do ingame shopping and it can be fun, plus help you level up your merchantile skill WHICH IS NEEDED in Tes... (I love Barter/Speech/Mercantile skills in these games...so sue me).

I.E. You are a Potion Maker in the game. You have HIGH Alchemy because lets face it. you svck at tactics and don't have a Stealthy character so...You need this. BUT you also need money INGAME Because:
A) The Dragon guarding said flower to make a bad ass potion and level up your skill is guarding it
B) You're not strong enough WITH Out said potion to take on another demon, group of bad guys, etc
C) You are too broke to afford that enchanted sword that could make life better. You svck at stealing, you svck at getting way from guards and you DONT want to be a bad guy in your game.

SO:
Instead of Stealing...and going against your characters morale...or hurting faction with people (Infamy), and because you svck and can't steal at all...
Open up a store. Sell your potions at your own price.
----------------
I can see this being good for ENDGAM or Middle of the game..Possibly be a SMART move to do at begining!
Some one will trade you an item you may have "Left Behind" <---Which would be cool, because...you know how stupid leaving a boat load of loot on the floor in Imperial city and NOT ONE BEGGER OR GUARD steals that [censored] makes sense...It will actually..."Hurt You" to leave that sword behind...it will make you think about your actions before you just DUMP everything on the floor, "Fast Travel" duriong the day back to the cave (BTW its Dark when you hit the cave) Fast travel back to the place you dumped your items on the floor and it's light time already (A new day)....It will also help you if say....You left behind a special item and didn't know it was special say in a story mode fight where a cave has "Caved in" behind you when you finished your story....some one else one day can go back and snatch that goodie and trade it to you or sell it to you. ^_^

Option I could see being cool is: "Shop is Open" and "Shop is Closed" so people don't just...buy/take stuff and have some lame Rent thing in Fable. One day you don't feel like killing things and just want to chill out ingame, you can open shop...make some money while doing nothing on a lazy day or slowly build funds to get that armor from another store, OR possible random encounter with a trader who holds onto some weird artifacts that you can use. It might also help people like me...who like decorating my home with cool things. Fill Shelves with weird daedric items or Awesome/Cool looking knicknacks, Helmets etc...Random encounters with traders/store vistors can help you get some weird items you can't find on your own because A) Your too busy in one region and can't visit another B) You're too WEAK to be traveling inbetween regions because of level/style of gameplay.

Do you actually want to sit in your store all day making potions and hoping customers keep coming through the door? I certainly don't. I'd rather be out adventuring (hence my purchase of an adventure game). So one might say, why can't you buy an alchemy store like you could own a Mead Hall in Morrowind. At that point though, you don't have a "profession", you're simply a capitalist who's traded lump sums of money for a % of an operations revenue.

Running a business is a grueling operation. Managing production inventory, producing the good, anticipating demand, dealing with price fluctuations and competition, taxes... none of this is really fun unless you're playing a business simulator. But we're not talking about a business simulator, we're talking about an adventure game.

So how do you make standing in a shop waiting for a customer = fun game mechanic?

How do you make creating potions fun?
How do you make adding buffs to items fun?

See how it works? Bethesda uses thier ingenuity to create a fun and interesting game.

I also don't see how the fact that YOU don't like a feature means it shouldn't be added in the game. I'm not a fan of enchanting (I find it makes the game far too easy), but I don't see why it should be cut.

Alchemy and Enchanting aren't mini games but merely extensions of the Magic system. Furthermore they have direct impact to the main agenda of the game (adventuring) by either temporarily buffing the hero, debuffing an enemy, or buffing the hero's gear. When you're talking about professions you're talking about the necessity to (i) build entirely new min-games that (ii) have nothing to do with the main agenda of the game.


TES games can't be all things to all people. For a new idea to be a good and valuable one, it should survive the crucible of public discourse.

I'd have to say yes on all of them, even thou doing quest for random people is sort of like a job. It be cool to take it a step further and say get hired to be a hunter, or a guard to patrol the forest every day at a certain path.

I voted "no" not because I don't want these things but because including them would distract the developers from the meat and potatoes of the game (combat, story, character interaction). While little things like this do add to immersion, I don't need to own a store in-game to enjoy buying and selling things. It's unnecessary and boring for the majority of players.

Do I have set hours?

:P

I voted, No to jobs, yes to a proffesion and maybe for a store. I play games to get away from real life, I don't want to be working in video games now.

Maybe on all of this. What people need to remember is that getting a job in Skyrim is optional.

As for job choices, only fun jobs. Nothing boring.

And aren't Guilds basically jobs? Speaking of guilds as jobs I'd like guilds to be something you actually have to become a part of and work in to advance.

i want a job like fishing but ill only do it once a week or something and id like to have professions but not full time and stores i want to part own onw one not be stuck there all day long and be like (in a boring voice) thatll be 2.50

PO-TA-TOES

i think that it'd be pretty sweet to own like one store. it could be a source of income and it'd be really cool if there were quests involved.

this is not fable...

:yes:
:miner:

it's yay or nay btw

-face palm-

So how do you even leave the house without questioning everyones motives and doing anything that isn't beneficial (Like posting on a Web Forum persay)?

I just so happen to like BOTH aspects. I like Running a Small Virtual Store to make extra cash because for people like ME it comes naturally...OH BUT EVERYONE is like you. I can't be a slaughtering Warrior...and look at that! a Savvy Business man too? Because we all know Adventure games don't include MERCANTILE and SPEECH Skills in video games. NO! Never a CHARISMA Stat either.
Running a business isn't Grueling, in video games. Infact, it's beneficial to people who like getting money smart ways instead of pissing off Guards and People they could easily make a customer out of. But we're not talking about a Business Simulator, we're talking about a ROLE PLAYING Game. Where if I want to be a Shop Keep in an RPG to help earn some money to TRAIN my skills such as...oh look at that! Mercantile Skills! Silver Tongued styled characters. Oh but you never played that style before, so it obviously worthless to everyone.

Debating (Well not really...) with me with such remarks as GRUELING, And Hard. To who? OH people who don't want to use the feature...got it...but what about people like me? Who get bored of hitting the same dungeons who have copy and pasted walls....same traps...same bandits. LOL Taxes don't imply in this game, even if it did...who cares? Set the prices at a higher rate or go low to sell it at a faster rate. I like the talking aspect between my character and NPC's...If that's not fun to you...WHY are you playing this game? You have to talk to quest givers, Merchants to sell stuff to get money to pay for things because not everyone DROPS money and lots of it. I like chatting it up with random NPC's in some games. It's funny the dialogue and detail of putting in these people because A) Seeing the same Shop owner all through out that game is kind of boring specially when you can't do anything with them. B) And lack of NPC's means It's going to be awhile before I level up my Speech skills to out wit some tougher boss fights. Because not all my characters are heavy armored Tanks with enchanted magical armor that gives resistances to every thing.

Ever play Phantasy Star Universe Online? OF COURSE you haven't...why would you! I'll SHED some light for you!
You literally OWN a Shop in your HOME where people can visit and check out all the neat crap you picked up and decorated your "Apartment" with stuff that you may not need because A) You can't use it (There was class limitations on weapons very light limitations but still some), people come and go, you set prices and can log off your game and you don't HAVE to sit at your store! You don't have to do anything but SET it and FORGET it. Now this is on a "MMO" style. Now for a game like oblivion...they could easily make NPC's need what you want. Put a Candle up: people will buy it for their houses. (What would also be neat is, if you FOUND said item later sitting in some one's home!). Seeing TES loves making "Stolen" Items marked...Even though nobody saw me steal it...(MAGICAL GODS WATCHING OVER YOU!) they could do the same and improve on said system.

I'm sorry you think this is just another Hack-n-Slash Adventure game...but there is MORE ways to play it then one. Obviously you haven't explored them all.
Mages, Warriors, Stealthers
I've had, Bad Guys, Good Guys.
I've had guys who mostly "Leveled up" Thanks to their enormous bank because every one has a price (Bribes) and everyone's got to pay (TES has a Haggle Option. I heart it)

I've had some who just ran through dungeons killed and looted everything because they had a HIGH STR stat...but not all characters can do that.

So what happens to the stealthers ( who don't have a HIGH Str...and can't carry everything lol)? The Silver Tongued Devils (Like almost mostly all my characters lol) who want to do more then just...kill/loot/sell, but trade/chat/haggle using that LUCK/Charisma Stat to good use?

Are we all supposed to be dull adventurer's we can't "Role play" in a role playing game a City Dweller?

DearBrother,

You know you could cut the size of that text wall in half simply by resisting the urge to insult me and simply argue on merits alone.

That's great that you point out something not even relevant! Good for you!

My contention on the thread is that there aren't any proven compelling mini-game mechanics for professions, and that furthermore, they don't fit cleanly with the main essence of the game.

Do you have anything to say on that matter, or are you just going to debase yourself by trying to insult me?

To the DearBrothers this may concern,

This is not an MMO, attempting to make it one will only hurt the game in the long run. Running a shop in an MMO is relevant to the game because you have tons of other players to keep it interesting and dynamic. Owning a shop in a single-player game would get boring fast. I'm guessing the AI in Skyrim isn't quite smart enough to keep buying and selling new things every day and maybe have a quick chat with the owner.

You're in the minority here as well. The argument you used was that just because other people don't want it doesn't mean it shouldn't make it in the game. Do you see that many people here besides yourself arguing for a feature like this? Sure, it'd be nice if they included it for the minority of people who absolutely need it but Bethesda has instead decided to cater to the majority of people who rightfully expect a fully realized adventure/role-playing game. Not including things like this allows them more time and resources to make the best adventure game the can make. If that many people wanted this in the game, then this would be a shop owning simulation game, which I'm sure already exists elsewhere.

lol Obviously...you didn't read my post...And you ignore it because you don't want to even fathom the thought that this guy talking to you is right.

Or you're trolling...I can't tell really.
----
Main Essence of the game is clearly speculation on your part. Not everyone adventures the same way you do. There doesn't need to be mini games, that was some one elses point...WHAT I just said is...Not even a mini game..it's...a function if you want to become a shop keep..I.E> You killed the owner, got his key...payed the bounty (OR IF YOU ARE A SLICK LITTLE DEVIL LIKE ME! you TALKED him into fighitng you...THEN killed him...yeaaaaaaaaaaa) and then took over the store because you want to make some cash early on to have a "Safe" feeling, or...You know when you level up: Armor goes up...Which means that bad ass set of Orcish Armor that just now started showing up, Is availible, AND YOU want it right off the bat. <------See...I like that about TES games because they do it right. Some of us are impulse buyers...some of us are more Patient when it comes to games, some of us like having both options ahead of them (<----I'm Definently down for having the option of both).

So I want to set it and forget it store, OR I want to have the ability to set up my shop, decorate it all nice like (Because Houses in Morrowind and Oblivion were awesome to do this in), and then have random NPC's come in and talk to you to not only level up/share dialogue possibly even get more spots on your map opened up you might not have heard of or wanted to go into that area, possibly share some items you might not have the ability to "Buy" or "Find" on your own because...well...You didn't go into that creepy Zombie infested area because you're only level 12...and they inflect poisons/diseases you don't know how to cure, or can't reach a person who can, or YOU KNOW you can't kill them. So...get money not by stealing or killing NPC's in the town because your character isn't good at stealth (yet lol) or getting away form powerful guards. Some people like Dialogue.

So is that wrong?

Think like The DLC for Theives Den. You had Shop Keeps, you had Mercs who after a week (Set it and FORGET it!) came back, and gave you money, loot, plunder...etc... Shop doesn't have to be "Items' it could be Services, Black smithing, Potion, it could be Mercenary people/Body Guards (Which opens up Companions to hire :3).

So, that way...you can get random items. I'm saying build on this, and make a shop that you can sit there and wait few minutes see if there is people browsing, also I'd like to see some one steal from me. >: D

It adds flavor to the City Dweller, where as we're not always sleeping on roll out beds in the forest. <----Some of us Like the Houses/Homes etc form Oblivion and Morrowind. Expand on that is what I'd like to see. Best way: Shop Keep ability. Owner of one where you employ some one else to give you funds, you set the prices and forget about it or Shop Keeper yourself (which is also Owner) and talk to people, learn more, possibly talk to people not just about ITEMS but speak to them. Think of it this wsay: travelers telling you where they saw a shiny object, it could be the axe you always wanted, and you don't have to visit every stupid Tavern/Inn Shop keep yourself!

N-o.

This sounds incredibly boring and micromanage-y.