Name: MorroWind Sorting Stopper(MWSS)

1stDescription: This mod "Does" stuff, and things.

Realdescriptioin: Don't waste time sorting through 500 google search results, this program will sort through the crap you...........and things(don't ask)


Or....perhaps just call it STAMP(Sorting through anonymous morrowind pages) or something more witty...w/e...figured I'd throw a couple of ideas out there.....

At first I was totally against this .... but I think I will use this if it ends up as it appears it will .... & in the end I guess the name isn't going to kill it no matter what its called .... But I'm still going to give my opinion anyway ... imagine that ..

Sorry Skinjack but the Matrix part having anything to do with WOW makes me dislike it even more .... & ... despite the fact that IMHO MWmatrix is about as unoriginal as possible (not that any of my suggestions were any more original ) & even if it wasn't already Tainted by WOW association ... its not a very descriptive name .... mite as well call it MWdonut ... IMHO

Well, really, what's in a name? Usually it is descriptive of the process, object, program, etc. that you are naming. So what does this program do that we can use to name it? It serves as a center for downloading, installing, and managing mods. So, let's see. We have center. Synonyms focus, heart, hub, seat, eye, middle, core, nucleus, nexus, etc., etc. So we could use any of those in the name, or come up with a name that uses any of them in it. So... MWFocus. MWCore. MWMiddleman. Hub and eye are out. 3 letters. We could also go through the same process with the words downloading, installing, and managing, although those only describe one aspect of the program. I think sticking with center and working from that makes more sense. That is, if we are naming it according to function and assuming we are not looking for an acronym. Acronyms open a whole new can of worms. As I said, I'm not particularly fond of acronyms. Too many of them these days. Hmph. Who would of thought it would take more time to figure out a name for this than to actually build it?

Morrowind Easy Mod Installer :thumbsup:

TES Easy Mod Installer :dance: (v3 & bliviongate: would be nice too)

Once again, building upon another suggestion:

MEMRI (pronounced "memory") Morrorwind Easy Mod Resource Installer

MEMRI is associated with the Middle East Media Research Institute. Probably best to choose something unique.

Chances are, we won't ever choose something entirely unique without a lot of effort or just random luck. In fact, that is the way I came up with "Fliggerty" in the first place. I needed an entirely unique nickname to test an IRC client with and randomly typed in some characters. It worked well for me, so let's try it here:


HIKUIEDS

Nah, that didn't work. :shrug:


Edit: Off topic, but has anyone else had a problem lately with edits disappearing half-way through typing when using the quick edit feature lately?

I'm pretty sure I did, although I think PHP might have truncated it. I used the dump Yacoby made and imported it. I'll check the last few records and see if that actually happened.


If you really don't have the time to get involved in it, I can handle most of the web side myself (except locking it down). As for not allowing connections, that's fine. I know .Net has good support for XML (in fact, the program config file is stored in XML already), so that shouldn't be hard to fix. I'm guessing it'll take just a few hours to switch over, and it's definitely a better system. Actually, it's a good thing in a way, because one of the issues I would have had porting this to Mono was the MySQL connector (it used a few Windows-specific functions).
I have one issue with your current implementation though (and I could probably fix it myself): when I clicked it (in FF) it gave me a page stating that the XML had been generated, and linking to that. That's all good and fine, if one person at a time will be accessing the system. Otherwise, it could get real messy (unless I'm seriously missing part of your system). I think either a CGI program/script to grab from MySQL and print in XML or having the PHP output the XML directly (as in, I put the query in the query string, call the page, download, and it's the XML there). With the current linking system, unless you have some magic IP filtering and redirects going on I don't see, I don't think that'll work.



We're only halfway there, plenty of time before another needs started.




I like the sound of MWMatrix, but I don't think it's the best name for this project (sorry Skinjack, it's def got a nice ring). You also can't trademark a common word, like a few people pointed out. Otherwise every algebra book would be paying royalties. Or the Wachowski brothers would be paying some ancient Greek royalties. XD
I don't see a problem with mod alchemy. MAMM is a little long, and I don't know about the word magnet (it's not a pretty word ).

Actually, I'm going to toss in another: Morrowind Mod Alchemist.
Based on Fligg's, obviously, with bits of others. It's for Morrowind, works with mods, and does crazy stuff to 'em.



If I may point out (without sounding pretentious), at the moment, I hold the compile button. Therefore, I get final say on the name.
Also, this doesn't really organize mods. It won't resort your archives, just list and install them. So, it's more of a downloader/installer/manager than organizer.



This I like.



I can't see why it would take a lot of code to handle that database. Sounds like just a basic query and for-loop to me, to grab each row and format it XML style. If it's implemented like that (I have to look at Fligg's script), then that'll be easy to adjust to your database format.



Usually before I commit to a name I type it in Google. If I don't get any results (at least, not from the same general field of stuff), then I use it. Figure you're pretty safe that way.

I've modified the script to automatically redirect to the XML after it's been generated. Will that be sufficient?



We could probably make some sort of handler script that will "queue" up the requests and generate the XML for each request in the order they are received. Though that will slow things down a bit. The other option would be to simply generate the XML as a cron every hour or so and just eliminate the customization aspect of it. That will rely entirely upon your code to filter the contents.

Unique is the key word here, so I share the same opinion as you do.

Mash'N'Lox

ARM(Add Remove Mods)+?? (ARMED, MARM, FARM, ARMS, ARMP, ARMO, ARMMW, ARMW, MWARM...)

Morrowind Mod Center MMC(UMMC, MWMC, UMWMC...)

Last two are from http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=1045089&view=findpost&p=15160724 I am glad something like this, is finally, taken into consideration.

If you really like it to be in charge. I'm just so... [censored] have it in your way when.

That comment I really want to be more precise about. My first intention to this was, it should be a program with some useful features. Like you said peachykeen, but also an option to backup all important files, such as "morrowind.ini, mlox-loadorder.out, auto- & quick-save" and two or three gamefiles to be restored when you later need it. I assume that you also have intention to include the self extracter files (SFX-WinRAR & 7z.EXE) in to the program. That's why I come up with the 'Morrowind Mod Organizer', because I believe that any game fan of Morrowind should'nt be bothering so much about the *how to do what ?* -thing related to mods.

Sorry to be off-topic here, but I do have to point out that I whole-heartedly disagree with this. From a modder's perspective, if someone can't bother learning how to install a mod, then I don't see why we should bother helping them when they come to us with problems.

No comment !!!

Enough is enough, I'm fed up with this.
I'm sorry for this, but to all the others who wish to listen to the arguments I've are welcome to PM me of this matter.

I'm down with this .... he who does the work ...has the control in my book .... I'm making suggestions by in the end I don't really care what the name is .............


































....... as long as it isn't doesn't have matrix in it ..

Geeze, no need to get upset just because someone disagrees with you. Though that does seem to be a pattern throughout this entire thread....


Okay, so back on topic.


The more I think about having a personal rating system, the more I like it. Something simple like a five start system, or even simpler such as a thumbs up/thumbs down selection. I think it would also be useful to have a personal comments feature where the user can store their own comments on the mod.

I'm going to have to side with Fliggerty on this one. It is always better to know how to install the mods than to completely rely on this program. Remember, its not going to download and install every mod out there from every website. In some instances, as in Darknut's site, it is only going to point you in the general direction. It will be your job to download and install from there. Even if the downloaded mod is placed directly into your local folder for the program to recognize and install, it still never hurts to know how the process works for future debugging. In the one programming class I took years ago, the teacher was adamant about people being able to figure out the code instead of relying on pre-written stuff that could be adapted from the libraries. Even the way we were doing our coding seemed like a shortcut to me. I know some of the programs I made weren't all that difficult using VB, but if you ever took the time to look at the coding it generated, well... I don't think I could have done all of that from scratch. Push-button programming, I believe he used to call it. The point is, if you don't know how to install mods to begin with, this program could wind up creating hundreds of little "I'm using such&such program to install my mods and all the objects are missing" threads. No program is going to be perfect in its performance without revisions and updates. The were programmed by humans, and we have a tendency to screw things up.

Morrowind Mod Alchemist. I can live with that name. Although I still prefer how MWMatrix rolls off the tongue. Maybe its the -ix. Oooh, Morrowind Mod Alchemix. :meh: Nah. Doesn't roll as nicely. As you said, final decision is yours. All I did was put the request out there. Actually, the more I reread this the more MMAlchemist is growing on me. Alchemy is a cool word.

@C.Carjades - I'm not sure what the problem is, but your last few posts have you coming off as a spoiled child who would rather take his ball and not play at all if everyone won't stay still so he can hit them. This is peachykeen's project, after all. All final decisions lie with him. And Fliggerty was just posting his opinion, which I'm sure a lot of modders (and non-modders) agree with. I do agree that it would be nice to have a program that can also incorporate "an option to backup all important files, such as "morrowind.ini, mlox-loadorder.out, auto- & quick-save" and two or three gamefiles to be restored when you later need it", but let's give peachykeen an opportunity to finish what he has on his plate now. Scope creep in a project usually winds up with an unfinished WIPZ, ala Eldanorcara. Right now, peachykeen has a defined set of parameters and functions he is looking for in this program. The nice thing about programs is that their functions can evolve with input and these options may be added in at a later time. Or, like me, you could be searching through the local college curriculum sites for classes on programming, modeling, etc. to make mods and programs like these yourself, that way you can have exactly what you want.

Coming into this a bit late and whilst I have read the thread I'm not sure if this has been mentioned.

Ok, caveat over. I like Mash's Installers feature. Could there be an option here (checkbox or whatever) to say "Hello, as-yet-unnamed program that does stuff, I have Wrye Mash installed. My installers directory is here, would you be so good as to download the mods and things into there? Thank you"

I'm not sure if I explained what I was thinking about right. See, in my mind (how you had it set up, I haven't checked the new one yet), is there's "results.xml". Now, if one person open the page and gets their results.xml, then the app goes over the link, downloads it, that works.
But, what if person A requests a certain set of mods, and the scripts starts generating it. Person B gets online and requests another set. Person A's connection is slow (dial-up), they don't get the page yet. Person B gets their page, and results.xml is rewritted to be their request. Now person A downloads it, but they get Person B's request instead of their own. I think it would be much better to spit out the XML directly, rather than use any kind of second page.



I don't want to be in charge. Honestly, I don't care what the name is (I just hope it sounds cool). I'm not going to insist on any one thing, certainly not if it'd cause any issues with the community.
However, with all due respect, you are not helping with this project, in the actual work, and you are complaining about everyone else's opinion. At the moment, the whole discussion as to names is just opinion, nothing has been pinned down (except that we aren't naming it Automatic Matrix Leech ). So... Yeah.


The 7-zip program can extract it's own self extractors, and I think regular ZIP and RAR/WinRAR SFX modules as well. It supports a decent number of formats, and everything I've ever seen Morrowind mods in (except ACE, which isn't the best format, and kinda rarely used).



Just to make it clear, I'm not looking for control. I really don't care much myself, just wanted to point out that it's not like y'all can just go an' stage a coup.



I think a global/shared comments feature would be nice, as would global ratings.
But local ratings and comments would be good too, so you can over-ride the global rating with your own, if you have a strong opinion or want to remember something. It's not hard to do, really, so I can add that in.



That's like programming in any language, even C/C++, and looking at the assembly. It's like... o.0 (unless you have an idea of what's going on down there). All the BASIC languages are pretty high-level (which means easy and inefficient mostly), so yeah. But the main parts of the code are pretty well commented for this (at least, as far as I do things, but I can generally pick up my code months later and get the ideas, so others may be a little confused).


Making back-ups of the important files is no problem, I can even do that on installation.
I don't exactly have a defined list, but in general I'm doing the database stuff, then installer and mlox connection, then comments and ratings. Once those are all working, extra features will be added. All depends on what we come up with by then.
And I mentioned it before, I'll be releasing the source for this (probably on SourceForge, as soon as a name is pinned down so I can open the project). So, if you want to tweak it and do whatever (hell, you could even rename it ), that'll work just fine. It's also in C#, which is possibly one of the most human-readable languages I've seen (it's tied with things like Python, PHP, and friends, IMO).



I have it set up so you can pick your mod directory, so any downloads would be sent there (the only issue with that is you won't be able to pick a DVD, for example, or you'll just have to remember to write the mods to it later). It's with the options to pick your MW and mlox dirs. I'm not familiar in-depth with how Mash likes things, but you can pick where the archives go.

Hope I got everything. This thread is going so fast it's hard to catch every point. >.<

I didn't think it was going to be an issue at all, however, I didn't want a lot of annoyed people. Better safe than sorry and all that

Take a look at google code as well. I prefer it to Sourceforge (or I prefer it to how Sourceforge was a year ago). ymmv.

Yup. I'm not sure how Fligg has the code set up now, but I don't think there'll be any issues.


I've never liked Google (or SF)'s terms of use. Especially the part where they can do whatever they want with it, for "advertising."
SF definitely improved with the overhaul it got, so it doesn't really matter...

Also (just asking if I'm imagining things), but the point I brought up with about redirecting vs directly supplying XML: is that valid, or is it just something I'm thinking that won't happen? Do you know which would be better or more efficient?

I don't know, but if you have a script that generates the xml and then gives a link to a non unique generated file, you will definalty run into issues with concurrent access and the standard http accepted way of doing things is to supply the result in the same file as was requested.

Regarding efficanciy, the best way (as always) is to try and serve cached or static content where ever possible. Given the issues I had with ES Search and my hosting provider complaining, I would try and do as much processing on the clients machine as possible.
I personally would offer the database in whatever form as avaiblbe for download (preferable at least gziped) through an API. Due to the large amounts of data you may wish to consider severing it as a .zip or .7z containing xml/sql rather than pure xml. I don't know how .zip compares to .gz.
The other thing that you may want to consider offering is diff files to reduce the amount the client has to download. So the client could request the latest version number, if it differs the client could request either the latest version or the diff from its current version to the latest version. If you went with this method, you would of course have to also supply md5 hashes of the versions so the client can check the data integrity when it has merged its version and the diff.
The server should of course cache the diff files as well as the main version files and just serve them up if it can find the cached version to avoid the pain of regenerating and compressing the data again, which depending on how you compress it could really eat the cpu power up.

If you are consider rolling your own caching solutions, you will want to take a look at PHPs http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.outcontrol.php as well as the http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.readfile.php function for reading the cache back. The cache id is usally generated from a md5 of the request paramaters and (if applicable) the url.

Unfortuanly using difference files as proposed above does lead to quite a bit more work on both ends.

I never noticed anything really bad. But then atm I wouldn't notice if aliens invaded.

Any chance of seeing another shot of the gui?

Thought I'd contribute to the name how about - Fat Lute - which was a cute homage Bethesda gave to MM0RPG's loot drops

Whatever you pick something descriptive might be useful - sometimes the modding acronyms have been difficult to decipher - it seems your tool does a Fetcher job - runs off and gets a bunch of mods which you can then pcik and mix from

Forgive me if you have already said this but can you sort by type - I'd find this really useful when looking for resources. Also one of the great features of Mash is that you can load the readme's into it - if you are going to be looking at the directory structure of the mod are you able to display the readme?

I've a bit of a control freak with my mods and often repath the textures - I find it difficult when textures are just dumped into the texture directory as I prefer having them in a seperate folder - this requires using nifskope though I think there was a utility that does this - how will you extract the mod and sort it?

Mash uses a great feature - replacers - where mods like Nich's rocks and connary's textures work really well as you can swap them in and out without ruining your game. If a mod is a mesh or texture replacer and the user has Mash can it send the file directly to the replacer folder if selected? Would still need a prompt to select the replacers via mash.

Some mods have extra folders such as different sets of textures for variety or optional esps - how will those be sorted?

Interesting approach to manage your mods. I'm quite sure they be successful.

I believe this feature is obsoleted by the BAIN (new Installer) feature of Mash. Just drop your texture replacers into the Installers directory, and you can tell Mash to put them in or take them out. Very easy.