Um... so where would the ratings come from? Are these new ones or ratings uplifted from PES and TesNexus?

Ratings are ...complicated.

A good description of what the mod does might suffice ? Though...

Am still wondering about the need for visibility of what's being downloaded - as in screenshots - I've built up a collection of texture and mesh replacers - and tend to mix and match them to get the look I'm after - these are placed in a Replacers folder and I use the replacer feature of Mash to get them in and out of my game - texture mods are quite popular - how would the user be able to visually pick which ones they want to download?

What if a modder doesn't want their mod distributed this way?

That looks similar to the UI for this. Like a simpler version. This won't require a local database (although caching it might help for bandwidth), and will support conflict detection (mlox via IronPython) and mod installation, as well as downloading.
The general list of mods with info, though, will be a similar concept. I guess this tool would just combine the MW Mod Database, mlox, and some functions of Mash into a single program that doesn't require Python.



Seeing as the whole point (or part of it) is downloading, it won't be strictly local. Of course, I can add that as an options check-box, and you can make sure it's staying home by telling your AV/firewall to block it.
As for morphing... It started out as a rough idea, so yeah, with any luck it'll end up being something useful. It just has to be refined, tested, refined, repeat... For that to work though, it'll have to stay as an open discussion like this, brainstorming. So far a lot of good things have been suggested, and on the code end, I'm starting to get something useful (it's still early, though).


That's why I'm working on an intelligent installer. Instead of just doing a copy-paste, it will extract the mod (I'm looking over some code to use 7-zip with this, which will support ZIP, RAR, and a few other formats) into a temp directory and scan that for ESPs. It'll then open a box asking which ESPs you'd like to install (with author/description for each), you check them off, hit continue. It'll then scan the ESPs for files they need, and copy those over too. I'm not sure whether I'm going to scan ESPs and then dialogue/book text/scripts for sounds and images and scan NIFs for textures and all that, or just copy all textures/sounds/bookart and only the meshes referenced in the ESP. I'm debating between that technique and just searching for Meshes/Textures folders and moving their contents, then moving ESPs and opening an which-to-enable window. Either way, it won't blindly install from the archive.


The ratings, as well as some category info, the advlt flag, and a few other custom fields would be local (only used by this app). It'd be nice to share with PES and TesNexus, but Yacoby's system doesn't record the ratings as it spiders, and I think grabbing those would be beyond the scope of this.


I think screenshots would be nice too, I'm not sure exactly how that'll be done. Having a thumbnail shot that's downloaded when you click a mod in the list would work, and if you want a full list of screenshots, you can always click the link provided (every mod has a link, since they all came from a webpage).


If the modder doesn't want a copy hosted on the server, then only a link to existing copies (usually PES or TesNexus) will be provided, and it will be up to the user to download them. The installer will still work, though.

Also, again: Unless this should be marked down in the histories as MWModThingy, it's gonna need a name. I'm no good at names and icons.

Well, you could always just call it MWMatrix. I don't think the WOWMatrix guys would be upset by that. Its not like matrix hasn't been used in the title of other things. Right, Neo?

Or you could call it MWatrix and we could put an Elmer Fudd icon in there. :hehe:

Or Moodring (MOd Organizational DownloadeR INstaller for Game)

How about .... Morrowind Automated Mod Manager .... MAMM or just AMM Automated Mod Manager

Just as long as it doesn't have "leech" in the name

*To have it local* That's exactly my point from the beginning of this discussion. I also suggest that would be an option to the user who might use separate tools such as http://www.search.yacoby.net/click.php?id=13877&location=NEX&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tesnexus.com%2Fdownloads%2Ffile.php%3Fid%3D13877.

Yeah, why not. :clap:

Yeah, have to agree with the no leech in the name. Never did like that word. Less so now that they use it in so many programs.

Would you appeal to "Morrowind Mods Organizer Program" instead ?

I think we ditch the "Program" bit. Anything with the acronym MMO gets my vote

One of the major issues I often saw having moderated the ratings at PES was the occurrence of people who voted for a mod without downloading and/or trying it. No matter how many times you tell them, or even have them banned for doing so, people will do that. I believe this gives a perfect opportunity to prevent such a thing. People should only be allowed to comment and/or rate a mod if they have actually used this program to install it.

I actually really like MWModThingy. :hehe:

Or, building on Darknut's MAMM: Morrowind Automated Mod Manager Awesomely Replacing You (MAMMARY) :frog:


Peachy, what do you need as far as server resources right now? As I've said, I have no problem hosting the final version of this. However, I won't get my full datacenter running until spring as I have to bury some conduit first. Until then, I'm using my home internet connection and my "quieter" server which is a bit slower. But I've got a full LAMP stack running which can run anything you need. I can set you up with SSH and FTP access so you can use it for development. Then once we migrate to the full server, it will all be done locally, avoiding the need of any downtime. I've also got a dynamic domain pointing here that is updated by my server; it will serve until I get my nameserver running. So you can program in a domain rather than an IP that will need to be changed.

Can patch to start grabbing them if you want. Not till the end of the month though.

That's possible. It still allows for some hacking (unless we keep track of who voted on what on the server, which I imagine will make for a huge mess), but it's possible not to allow ratings until after installation. There's no way to make sure you've played it, just that you've installed it.




At the moment the only real need is a MySQL server to have the db on with extra fields, but I'm tossing around bits of PHP admin stuff and a comment system.
LAMP works fine, and I know how to work with remote servers with those. I'll figure it out more and PM you or post when I've got a better idea of it.
I'm always hesitant playing with other people's servers, though, so don't make it so I could break anything (not that I've ever actually broken any servers, just paranoia).



There's a few other custom fields I've got to add also, so it really doesn't matter. If you want to grab the ratings, that's fine, I can use them, otherwise a local rating can be used. I'm gonna have to somehow scan through that entire db for mod filenames, unless I can figure out a way to deduce that from title. I think it'll end up having to store ESPs names, which will be fun.


As far as names go, we've got:
(Morrowind) Automated Mod Manager ( (M)AMM ) - 1 vote
Morrowind Mods Organizer (Program) - 2ish votes
MWModThingy - 1 vote
Something with Matrix - 1 vote

No offense Fligg, but I'm not putting MAMMARY in the running.
I dunno which I prefer, probably a recursive acronym somehow involving Morrowind and matrix, but I have no idea what that'd be.
So, anyone else with ideas, toss 'em out.

As far as progress updates, I've:
- linked mlox via IronPython using its command line stuff, it loads straight from your computer and there is an option to select the mlox path
- - option to scan all mods (everything in Data Files) or just active mods (enabled in Morrowind.ini)
- added an option for the Morrowind location
- added a simple method to search the mod list (by title, author, version, category, or description, type a word or phrase and it'll sort everything containing those to the top of the list)
- added advlt mod flagging (using a pleasant pink that's still easy to spot for people (like me! ) who will go through the list downloading all of them)
- reworked the bottom info pane to:
- - always show the right info, no matter sorting or searching
- - update faster
- - if more than one mod with the same title, author, and version is found, it will take all the URLs and add them to the start of the description (you can actually see that in the shot, where it says alternate URLs, it grabs as many as it finds and will list the first one as the URL with any others in that box, you can click either and it starts in your browser)
- - if you double-click the description box, it pops out into its own (bigger) window, so you can read them easier
- - now has two tabs, one for mod info, one will hold a comments page
- - couple other minor bits

Shot:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/peachykeen000/gui_4.jpg

As soon as a server is set up, I'll put out a simple demo of the program (with source), so you can see what it looks like and play with the UI (I doubt I'll have the installer done by then, though). I'd do that now, but without the server, it's useless.

Well, if you're still looking for names, there's always MWNexus or just Nexus, since it will be a means of connection (or a connected series or group) by allowing you to download from a number of sites. I guess I don't feel the need to name every program for Morrowind using an acronym. Other than that, so far this looks excellent. Of course, some people may associate the program with TESnexus if we named it that. My bad.

Fine. Be that way. But there's nothing that says I can't name all of the back-end stuff after that. :meh: After all, my server is named Fargoth.

It's ok with me.


EDIT: The name "Morrowind Mod Organizer Project" would have my vote to.

How about TES Mod Magnet?
That will give an acronym longer than 3 letters (4+ needed for forum searches). Alternately, MW could substitute for TES if it's too general.

In regards to ratings, what about making it a personal ratings system? Or a thumbs up / thumbs down type sorting filter to bring personal favorites to the top / bury disliked mods respectively?

Alternatively we don't bother with an acronym and just pick a full name that looks good?

So since MAMMARY isn't even being considered, how about a serious suggestion?

Keeping in line with my recent efforts to name things based upon game relevancy (ie Census and Excise Office.)

Mod Alchemy

I still like MWMatrix the best. MMO a distant second, but I also agree another letter would be needed with that for search purposes. How about MWMOD? Or is that already taken? You guys with your acronyms. Who can keep track? :shakehead:

Here 2 more name suggestions .... one serious one not so ...

Super Transitory Uber Proprietary Install Director


Morrowind Automated Install Director

Not that it counts much, but MAID gets my vote! Very original and fitting.

Yeah, MAID sounds very good.

By the way, I've read through all the pages just now and I must say I'm really impressed. This would be a revolutionary step if everything goes as planned. If I hadn't seen the gigantic database of 22,000 mods offered by Yacoby, I would have offered my humble database, consisting of about 5000 mods

Got your PM, info there worked. I'll get to work on setting that up, should take like a minute. Sorry my inbox filled up (those things are too small).
And... :facepalm: honestly.



That's a good idea. How bout a local and global rating? You can choose to have your ratings submitted (either on a 5-star or +/- system, not sure which yet), or just have them local. If you rate something, it'll display your rating, then the global.


If you have any mods that aren't in Yacoby's db, by all means, I'd like to add them. I know I have some, rescued from an old temporary store of EuroMorrowind and a few other sites, that may be the last surviving copies (like the original mog mod).

Names:
Mod Alchemy - 1 vote
(Morrowind) Automated Mod Manager ( (M)AMM ) - 1 vote
Morrowind Automated Install Director - 3 votes
Morrowind Mods Organizer (Program) - 2ish votes
MWModThingy - 1 vote
MWMatrix - 1 vote

I know the numbers are mixed up and people have voted twice. I'm liking Fligg, Darknut, and Skinjack's suggestions (but not sure which I like more).

Edit:
And, I'm having one issue with mlox, where it can't import the locale Python module. I'm not sure where that's originating from (asking IronPython to specifically import that results in the same exception). I'm working to fix that.

Yeah, personally I don't care what its called, just so long as its called done before I start a new game.

Yes, this make sense. Since you mentioned it, would be so kind to start a poll-thread about a unique name for this project ? Maybe present a list with some names from this thread to vote for. I think it's about time to close this thread since the "Program Request"-topic has been a little off track here. That would best if either Yacoby / Fliggerty or peachykeen start a new thread with a proper title, because I feel this has become a real daunting headache for me though.