Gear grinds are amongst the most boring game play out, along with dailies.

Last WvW season I transferred from the gold to the bronze tier just to try to see less blobs in WvW.. it helped a little, but there are still tons of people. I'm sure there are some quiet servers, but in my experience more servers are active than not. Incidentally, I was also pretty disappointed when they strayed from their manifesto as well.

I have no doubt that ESO will have a significant population drop after month 2 or so. There are going to be a lot of people like the OP that will buy the game, play through it, get to the end, and quit. The thing is, these people would have done the same with WoW at release too. The first raids didn't come out for half a year after release, and even then like 5% of the population was doing them before the first expansion.

I you're coming from the most popular MMO that has a decade of progressive content to chew through, and progressive content is your bag, then you're going to be disappointed anywhere you go.

Yeah and when it does , i will crown myself emperor with queen ayrenn and my wife at my side ! Dont think my wife will be happy sharing me with someone else though

It's like they don't understand how most people view MMO's.

MOST PEOPLE do NOT like questing. They "put up with it" to get to end game because we've been taught, over the years, that that is where the "real game begins" be it pvp or pve.

That is why the dailies fiasco happened. Whether they "had to" or "didn't have to" didn't matter. The facts were: People already did a bunch of quests to get to 90, they didn't want to do additional quests "just because".

That is what all that outrage was about.

It seems that most of people who reply here actually have not PLAYED a GOOD MMO before. They've played single player games or something where -all you can do- is walk around and explore because single player games are inherently different than MMOs.

Let me summarize this. You are complaining that a game that isn't out yet, that you haven't played to endgame, doesn't have enough endgame content for you? You could a) go to a game with a structure and model you like, or play the game and see what the endgame is and give your input. Like I said though, you'll just hop ship and find another game in a few months and the rest of us will be left playing the game your complaints, as raiders tend to be the loudest voice in the room, manipulated.

Would you rather kill all the bosses then have to wait a week to do it again? Whats the difference? So your way people play only 1 day a week?

Well said.

Dailies etc are because of endgamers whining they didn't have enough content. It's a way to slow down progression to make it a little less easy for those players to hit the end and then complain or bail. TES was originally a single player game, it was very sandbox-y and very much not about grindy endgame. The endgame was a good as the beginning of the game, the point was you were enjoying it all the way through. The people that are going to stick around are the people who like TES and want more of that. Not the people that jump in out of the blue and complain that there's not enough endgame before the game is even released.

Most raiders just play vent/teamspeak while their add-ons do all the work.

They just told us what Endgame is about. Can people stop being in denial please.

WoW released with multiple Raids and more where added at the first patch. Lets keep facts straight please.

That's an ignorant statement.

I agree with you.. It was very boring, but the fact I could do anything, go anywhere without having to Stop here Do this in order to continue was what I loved. The only grouping i ever did was a Mining group LOL....until about 63 Catalyst Goonswarm came in asking for mining permits and I had lost my Orca along with my Hulk and well, everyone else got out because of ME....my auto group warpdrive..my ships were too slow at warping so i was the last there..

Sounds good to me!

None of this changes the fact that the game hasn't started and you aren't even level 1 yet. Did you experience endgame in beta? Did you do all the content they are adding that wasn't in beta? I'm not in denial because I don't care about endgame. I am playing the game to enjoy myself, I don't want to spend 16 hours a day grinding up progression and gear in a mind-numbing cycle like I have for every other MMO because that's where they put all the content. I will get to endgame when I get there, same with most other people.

Endgame is pvp, you don't like pvp, play something else. People were suggesting Wildstar but I have not looked at it. It might be preferable. There are lots of MMOs you could shop around for.

I'm ignoring your claim of this, yes. I think you don't have enough information to make such a claim. Indeed, Cyrodiil is kind of designed to be such a thing and you're ignoring that entirely.

The only "raids" that WoW released with were 5-man level 60 instances like Scholomance and Stratholme. They weren't really raids, there was just no restriction for taking a raid group into them at the time. There was no difficulty increase when Blizzard prevented raids from entering them. Molten core, the first raid instance, did not come with release. It also didn't come with the first patch that added an area (Mauradon) which was a level 40-50 instance.

Don't correct me unless you're going to be correct about it.

Don't get me wrong: I like questing. I know, I'm weird.

I was actually a little disappointed that ESO doesn't seem to have very many "Collect X" and "Kill Y 7 times" quests...Heh.

However I did play GW1, City of Heroes and a few other games...where once you got to max level...well. There was nothing to do. It wasn't like a single player game, exactly, where you beat the final boss and the credits roll, but there wasn't anything, really, to keep you playing either. I eventually lost interest because there was nothing to do once I got to max level.

There are many MMOs like this...once you get to max level you can go back through all the old zones again and stuff, but there isn't a "carrot on the stick" to keep you going. That's what makes MMO's work, that carrot on the stick. After leveling the only way to become more powerful is to get better gear and use that better gear on ever increasingly more difficult monsters in an endless cycle of power ups. Once you stagnate...well that's game over.

The reason games with a level cap like Dungeons and Dragons on paper work is because YOU are the content creator and YOU can keep inventing more stories that engage you and your party. Unfortunately in MMOs we are reliant on the games creators to give us more things to do to feel strong, powerful and keep "powering up" be it additional levels, acquiring new skills or getting better gear.

Everything in an MMO is a tangible increase from where you were previously. Increase in level, increase in stats, increase in amount of skills you have, increase in SOMETHING...once the increase stops and there's nothing to use all your bad-ass glory upon then it gets boring.

That's just the reality of these games. We're all superheroes looking for challenging villains to overcome.

It's like the Episode about Batman dying in the cartoon. Joker was sad because "crime without Batman has no...punchline." There was no one for him to play with anymore

No, not really. What they told us is about some content that will be available over 50. Please stop abusing the "endgame" word or pretending what was said is all that there will ever be because you can't know that.

Onyxia and Molten Core were available at release. ty

http://www.wowwiki.com/Onyxia%27s_Lair

You are missing the point. The point is raid lockout.

For example, in WoW a Heroic Dungeon (similar to Veteran dungeons in ESO) reset once a day, and raids reset once a week. This is in place so that groups/guilds cannot repeatedly kill the same boss over and over again for loot; instead they only get that chance once per lockout period. If such a mechanic is not in place, then all endgame content will be finished within a week. There will be some extremely hardcoe games who would have an entire guild take turns grinding gear and taking down content 24/7 just to be world-first.

As for people who claim that the game is different from other "rush to 50" games? That's non-sense. It's not about how a game is designed; it's about how the players want to play it. A player can take his sweet time and even spend weeks leveling up in WoW, but a determined player can plow through ESO's levels within a week without rotations, and within a couple days with 24/7 rotations.

To be fair, from your OP in this thread, you have predicated everything you've said on the basis of your opinion. From your opinion that this non-issue needed to be discussed. To your interpretation that TESO has killed itself before the game has even launched. And that's fine.

But its still just your opinion, doesn't make it fact. Its your interpretation.

Let's keep it honest.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Molten_Core

Says it here too. It was the pinnacle of endgame achievement or something like that

This discussion is giving me an headache

Guess they decided rather than keep trashing the older content they might as well let people buy a high level.

But anyway WoW's been out a long time, I started playing it in 2005 gave up last year.

Had over 300 characters over the years, last one was pure PvP gave up in the end purely because got bored with the constant gear grind in boring PvP, and WoW's PvP for the most part really is boring.

I find it INSANE, that people here are fine to find out that ESO PvE only consists of Questing and Dungeons (and maybe Horse-racing in the future!!! lol). I think most people in these forums are just TES fans and have never played a serious MMO before.

I think most people here expect to play for a few months and then move on and dont want more long-term gamers to "ruin" their fun with more serious content. These people are not going to stick around just like people did not stick around for GW2.

ZOS just told us that Quests and Dungeons is all there is. I dont understand why people pretend we know anything and its all a mystery.