Well it seems like people are pretty agreed on http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1154136-marksman-skill-a-more-realistic-take-on-accuracy/ and the http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1155218-speed-and-tracking-of-ranged-projectiles/ at which projectiles travel. However I haven't see a whole lot of talk about the damage system with ranged projectiles. Now while the damage caused by arrows may seem arbitrarily the same as calculating damage from other weapons, for them to be truly realistic, at least in my opinion, is for them to behave like actual arrows, in that they do little or massive damage.

Now I say this because if you think about it an arrow really isn't going to cut or bruise you it's ether going to pass right through you or bounce off your armor. Now what I think would really be the final touch on ranged projectile system would be interpretive code that could tell where at and what thickness of armor was behind it, if any, the arrow hit and then decide if it was a penetrative hit which would result in a one shot kill, like if you can get an arrow right in the eye hole for a guards helmet "BOOM head-shot"

This would of course break game play as a marksman and could not be this simple. One way to do it would be a leveling structure where the higher your level the higher the chance of one shot kill.

Ultimately though if the game were to be 100% realistic your ability as an archer would rest solely on your accuracy and arm-strength.

Arrows shot by a true archer can go through heavy infantry armor actually. Knights with full suits of armor can be killed by an arrow going through their armor. You have to be good though.

That would be more dictated by the poundage of the bow, and only the best longbows can shot through plate armor.

Crossbows, on the other hand...

Much easier to get huge amounts of draw force when you don't have to hold the bowstring back with your own strength.

Yes, now crossbows in real life could utterly destroy someone, the high powered shot-guns of the medieval ages so to speak.

one thing I would love to see armor piercing arrows

If they could implement it properly, and make them very rare and based on skill level (like a perk or something where it would give a 5% chance of a critical hit), then I would love one shot kills with bows. Obviously it would only work with lower to mid range enemies, (not going to take down a god by luck). To me, unpredictable things like one shot kills (through a helmet opening would be awesome!), make a game so much more dynamic and exciting. I like not knowing exactly how many hacks/shots/stabs it is going to take to bring down a given enemy.

A good sword or mace swing can kill someone in a single shot, too. Unfortunately it makes for boring game play because you just going around one-shotting massive hordes of enemies with no real fights.

This great post is where the thread should stop... But I do hate shooting/slashing enemies a ridiculous amount of times before they fall.

On a related note there should be different arrowheads and arrow types. I used a mod for a while that introduced "Tracer Arrows" that had tips would glow red or green in an enemy. This made fighting in the dark a ton more fun. There should be different types besides just iron or steel and such.

I actually think that one shot one kill is a good idea, for sneak attacks, depending on skill level for both... Once again though, I think we need to get away from the on target radical approach, and your skill level with the Bow needs to determine how large your target area is which should be represented by a circle not a crosshair, or if not that it should just not be on the crosshair at low levels but around it depending on your level. Add that to you only can properly manipulated and pull the bow string back properly at higher levels resulting in better and stronger shots, along with a realistic system that allowed arrows to glance off armor and shields, and an effect where the closer the enemy was the more alarmed or rushed you were at lower levels (Like a breathing or swaying effect present in FPS), and then maybe yes...

However if were going Oblivion style and it hits where you aim every time, and there is no other effect based on level... No absolutely not.

I'd rather have the first effect but that's just because I use Marksmanship in every TES game, and I would love them to put a lot of time into the skill. The irony is a lot of players are going to criticize the implementation of these ideas as bringing in things from other games which isn't the case as most of this stuff isn't actually implemented in most first person shooters, and if it was it would only be a credit to their ingenuity. Point is irrelevant though, while this could be done its not going to as it would require too much development time, and as such the old way is best.

/thread

not if it bounces off the enemy's armor, just scatches him, you miss, he dodges, or he blocls either with sword or shield

It has been tested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRXwk4Kdbic
For arrow against armor at ideal conditions in a test bench and direct angle hit - 20 meter distance for a sizable puncture, but given the stats in the game (we can take sword slash after sword slash), it wouldn't matter at all.
Another one, with even less convincing results: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3997HZuWjk
And this is at 20 meter still at ideal conditions in a test bench, direct angle hit. Add oblique angles, and it would bounce off. Add a freefall archer defense line, and it would have no effect against armor.

But would that be such a bad thing? If we could be killed just as easily you couldn't rush in (not until you have some good magics or armour at least) battles would be a lot more scary, blocking would be hugely important and if you were surrounded you would have to run for your life. If everything had only a "realistic" amount of health (including us) you could sneak one shot kill someone from afar. But be prepared to move as the dead enemy's friends could see which direction the arrow came from and rush that place. Or they would just run if they weren't confident enough. If two bandits stopped you on the road, you would actually have to consider paying them, or if you were confident enough quickly kill one to make a fair fight.

This, but enemy sponges are also annoying and boring as hell.

Bethesda should find a good balance on combat.

Let's be frank. No one really wants "realistic" in a game. "Realistic" is neither balanced nor fair. It'd quickly become annoying as hell.

I disagree, yes realistic can be very boring, "realistic" however (to me) means not having to slash an enemy 50 times to kill it when you're a high level. It means not having to run backwards up a hill shooting 50 arrows into a boar. When the most powerful sword only does 30 damage, having more than 150 hp is silly.

@Mitheledh, #17:
I think many wants aspects from realism and things that makes sense. "Annoying as hell" is true, but the point is making these annoyances go away with time, or avoid them through alternative ways. Do you break many lockpicks when starting up? Get the skills and you can open better locks and breaking fewer picks. Or use spells or scrolls. Or go for the Skeleton Key (which I have avoided since the first playthrough). From a game developer: "How can we annoy the player?" But as everything else, it has to be reasonably balanced, and eventually possible to counter.

"Realistic" is that boar runs right up your sword and mauls you to death, even if you're lvl 100 because the sword isn't going to slow a raging boar down much.

No no, that's realistic (without quotations) though I see what you're getting at. Boars (well, most animals really) are very dangerous in real life, I would love to see a game like that. If you stick a boar through it's head with a claymore it should die pretty quickly, but trying to take one down with a dagger should be a nerve racking challenge.

Simple. Make shots or hits of any weapon to the unprotected head directly lethal. Makes assassinations possible and combat more thrilling. Add ways to block strikes or dodge arrows based on character skill and partly player skill. (Maybe every time a head shot is being registered from the front, an agility check is rolled, and if it succeeds, an animation makes the character do a last-second dodge, potentially making the arrow hit another body part or miss. Does not work when shot at from behind or from very close distance.) If a helmet is worn, an arrow could be survived with some luck, and so could be an attack with a melee weapon; blunt weapons (as in, actually blunt) would probably not do quite as much damage through the helmet, taking around 3 hits to kill someone. The body should generally withstand 2 arrows/direct hits from heavy weapons or 3 hits from light weapons (more for really light weapons like daggers and wooden clubs), plus armor. The difference of a lvl0 character and lvl30 character health-wise should equal around 0-1 hit to the head or 1-2 hits to the chest.

The main difference between low-level characters and high-level characters would be the chance to dodge or parry an attack and not be hit in the first place. For arrows and melee weapons alike.

A game can have realisticish damage without being boring, simply by making dodges and blocks the primary ways of avoiding damage, not raw health points.

An optimal game would have combat that looked like in a good movie. You never see Robin Hood surviving 10 hits with a spear or bow, but you see him survive fights because he uses clever tactics and skilled marksmanship and swordsmanship.

This would however make the game much harder to play, and while some more hardcoe gamers would thoroughly welcome the influx of skill in the game you also have to balance what, not to say hard core, but more experienced gamers and what casual gamers want in the game. Unfortunately there are more casual gamers than hard core ones so game usually have to be geared to the first.

This could a be an added feature in hard core mode that I've been hearing about

I already 1 shot kill my foes in oblivion

But if there is an additional 1 shot kill possibility with arrows, then gigantic battle axes should also 1 hit kill enemies. Blades should also be able to 1 hit kill, puncturing the heart of the foe or hack of the head would in real life result in an instant kill.

So unless the combat would be changed to be more dangerous, I don't want arrows to be able to do it either.

But really the whole point of a archer is to be able to kill their attacker from a distance. I hate how in MW and Oblivion you're like in this CQ combat with archers all the time, that would never happen in real life.