Hey guys at Bethesda,
I had a suggestion for Skyrim or at least just a concern to possibly address, if you haven't really thought about it yet.
You always do a great job at making games how you want, and always do them well.
One of the pet peeves of mine from Oblivion was the fact that spells and arrows all shot out perfectly straight and stuff from the aiming reticle. I know a locking-on system would be crazy ( and I wouldn't suggest that), but some sort of inaccuracy when using magic or bows would make it feel a lot more reasonable and believable.
For long range shots though, when you actually need the accuracy, you could use a system that if a player holds still and aims at the same spot for a couple seconds that the bow zooms in or something on the target and a perfectly straight shot is possible and missing wouldn't be frustrating. But for quickly firing up close i think some projectile spread would be a great improvement.
-Nick S.

Arrows were affect by gravity.

that was all though right?

With arrows maybe, but I don't see why with magic.

I really don't remember much about how archery worked in Oblivion but I see Mount & Blade as the gold standard for how it should work. Inaccuracy of shots was skill dependent and could be improved through both levelling up and by using the weapon.

Yeah arrows dropped-over-distance and the better you were at Marksman the straighter and faster they'd go. It was a good system. Windage and rain could be nice too but this is not a sniper sim, so shouldn't have too much effect.

Magic should be as it always was, although perhaps with ranged attacks you could get a perk to steer them, like Dark Messiah.

I've fired both guns and arrows. I can say that arrows are far more accurate than guns.

This is mostly because the ranges where arrows are useful aren't that much affected by the slight movements of the hands and arms; guns at range are significantly harder to use because of how much longer their useful range is, and the minute movements of the hands and arms are exaggerated more the further downrange you go.

Case in point, people who primarily used the bow in Oblivion, and guns in FO3/FO:NV, please raise your hands... now, tell me if you were engaging/killing enemies at significantly longer ranges in FO3/FO:NV than with your bows in Oblivion.

Arrows were fine in OB, travel time of spells were slow though, easily avoidable.

yeah spells should definitely travel faster. maybe even with increased splash damage for if you're not right exactly on them.

Was it a problem? No. Are spreading projectiles a good idea in my opinion? Yes.

I really hope gravity affects the way arrows behave. They already made the arrow draw time longer and boosted the damage which is a plus, so gravity affecting arrows would be a great step in the right direction. That way I have a better control over my surroundings. If there a wall in my way and I need to kill someone on the other side all I should have to do it aim up and let gravity do its trick. It will add to the realism, and might make it somewhat difficult but also be very handy.

As for the magic, I would think it should also be affected by gravity. Maybe charging the spells makes it go further. It wouldn't affect close range combat so users don't have to worry about not being able to hit a target in their face, it just makes long range attacks harder and I think balances out the difficulty a bit more(same goes for arrows) Also yes magic speed should be increases. It never hurts to have a fast paced combat system(unless of courses it's too fast, gotta find the right balance, and as of now seems a bit sluggish. Keep the players on our toes and you'll get excitement out of the combat.

When did arrows ever shoot out straight and kept going straight? If anything the arced down too quickly. Spells make sense going straight, they aren't affected by gravity.



They were affected by gravity in Oblivion, did you not see the rapid trajectory change on the arrows? The curvature was a little too quick.

Oh dude yeah sorry, just sayin. thought i would just bring it up for bethesda to see what people thought about it I remember gravity affecting arrows now but they did just go perfectly straight..... and then drop

I am an active sports shooter, and your logic is silly to say the least.
If you have even a moderate amount of time in a specific firearm it will always be more accurate than a bow.

You logic is based on the fact that a bow is USELESS past a certain range. A range that a firearm can well surpass.

The reason you the average person will have killed more things from a longer distance on Fallout than Oblivion is very simple.
1. A gun can be fired a long range. Thus you can effectively engage an enemy that is farther away. Thus avoiding being close to the point the can smack you.
2. Firearms in Fallout have a higher rate of fire. From which you can can put more bullets into an enemy than you can the same time with a bow in Oblivion. Effectively increasing your damage-per-second. And killing them before they get close to you.

lol easy kids!

If you need archery ( and lockpicking and whether your fireball hits ) to be based on character and not player skill alone, then may I respectfully suggest TES, which has evolved not to be a pure rpg, but a crossover with the action/adventure genre, is not for you and maybe turn-based games would be more up your street. Please, this is not aimed at OP, more at the character skill is all camp.

Don't worry you'll have plenty of opportunities to miss targets because Skyrim will have something in addition to gravity that Oblivion didn't have. Wind.

Interesting, when I originally read the title of the thread I thought you were suggesting a shotgun or fan style of projectile which would fire something more akin to a cone shaped blast were you to shoot at a target. Rather than the ability to miss, the chance to hit a wider area but for less damage or effect.

I still think Spike should call it "The deadliest weapon" instead of "The Deadliest Warrior", who's with me!?

You missed the point- while range was part of the argument, the second was minute movements of the hands and arms. Even master marksmen/archers cannot control those, no matter the expierence or familiarity with their preferred weapon.

It's true, because of rifiling and speed of the projectile, modern guns are far more accurate at longer ranges than bows... only if they're mounted and computer-controlled with minimal human involvement. Marksmen almost never "freehand" their weapons; they always use a ledge, their knee, or the mounted bipod to steady the gun, precisely because they won't have perfect aim otherwise.

You're not going to have that if you're standing up. Especially if you're using weapons as close to full-auto as you can.

Arrows, while not as accurate as guns, are more forgiving in terms of these minute movements; the arrows aren't surrounded or enclosed by the bow, not to mention the arrows themselves are larger, so the minute movements of the hands and arms have less of an effect on the arrows. The fact that bows do not have the kind of kick guns do means that it holds a tighter spread if you want to fire several within a short period of time.

I guess what i'm saying is that it doesn't make sense for them to have a spread, not that they're more accurate than guns- I need to learn to stop and think rather than post a knee-jerk post, especially if it's late at night and I'm having doubts after posting. :slap:

i was really happy whit bowns and arrows in oblivion adding realism like gravity would svcks.

you need to go play oblivion again and watch your arrows

No such thing as "Deadly Warriors" these days.
Cowards' weaponry if you ask me.

Thats why if I ever go into battle it's going to be with my bowie knife, a length of chain, and chuck norris kicking skills. Bring it on terrorists. :mohawk:

Projectiles yes, But magic I wouldn't agree........its magic!

There was a marksman thread about this that went well into detail.
I suggest finding thread 2 about it with the search bar.