Look. Gog is a major digital distributor of games. That's a fact. It may even be second to Steam. I'm sorry that disturbs you? But for gamers, it's an all around good thing.

So Bethesda, who has at least 4 of their games on GoG (Morrowind, Arena, Redguard, Battlespire) is "ignoring" GoG?


Interesting train of thought.

That's not the ignoring type I'm referring to.

I'm referring to day one AAA releases at the same time on both gog.com and Steam.

Some people say ZeniMax Media inc. and Bethesda Softworks have a reason to not release them for sale.

I say there is absolutely no reason with CD Projekt RED now worth over $1 billion dollars (USD).

Every financial quarter gog.com is earning more and more money.

I expected CD Projket RED to be worth $1 billion dollars (USD) worth somewhere in 2018 or 2019, but they shattered my expectations.

I think now in 2019 CD Projekt RED can be worth $2 billion dollars (USD) if they keep up the way they do business.

That is if Cyberpunk 2077 does better in sales than The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt did which I think is possible and gog.com getting more AAA video games released for sale.

I'm not really sure I understand you're obsession with GOG.com, or what the correlation is between their net worth and Bethesda needing to put their AAA titles on their site.

My obsession with gog.com is because I hate Digital Rights Management (DRM) on PC versions of video games and that I don't want VALVe to become a monopoly with Steam on the PC video games market.

Also gog.com is Steam's biggest competitor and Steam needs competition.

Competition is very good for every single PC gamer. Competition in any industry is very good for any corporations and people who are their customers.

You hate DRM because you want to do illegal things that you feel you have the right to do.


I use steam. Want to know how many times my rights were violated? Zero. How many hassles? Zero. I buy a game. I play the game. End of story.

That...seems like a rather baseless accusation, I've never seen any indication of Ballowers being a pirate. Just because someone is against DRM doesn't mean they are against it because they wish to commit illegal acts, that's just silly(and quite frankly, rude as hell) thinking.

Give me one more legitimate reason to loathe DRM. It literally does nothing to you if you aren't doing illegal things.


DRM is piracy protecting for a reason.

Heavy DRM can affect game performance.

Care to share some statistics of that happening?


Because with a steam library of over 150 games that's literally never happened. Perhaps you need a hardware upgrade? Driver update?


Listen - my point is, this war on DRM is by and large completely unwarranted and ficticious, a problem created in the minds of stubborn "YOU CANT TELL ME WHAT TO DO!!" people, and it's silly.

I'm looking it up right now, particularly about Denuvo. It may have just been a baseless rumor.

Edit - http://i.imgur.com/RfqtdvU.png

Edit 2 - This kind of thing is why people don't like Steam http://www.geek.com/games/steam-proves-we-dont-own-the-games-we-buy-1464093/

Easy: Because of the want for more/better DRM, Steam was created, and because of Steam, 75% or more of PC games have become digital only, thus alienating a fairly significant of people who do not have access to high-speed internet(I've done the statistics, no I'm not reproducing them for the millionth time on these forums, if you want them, go dig up my older posts, I've shown them as recently as 6 months ago, it's roughly 15-20% of everyone in the U.S. alone) and thus incapable of buying and downloading these games. This has personally affected me on a massive scale, I used to buy PC games all the time. Until I was 16 I was a split console/pc player, then from 18-25 or so I was PC only. Then Steam happened, and I'm now incapable of playing virtually any PC game, which was once my preferred method of gaming. If I want to play a PC game nowadays, I have to drive an hour to my nearest friend with good internet(because my local town has no library high-speed) and download it there, and usually at the cost of his sleep because of his work schedule, thus inconveniencing a second person.

DRM should have stuck with CD keys. Hell it's been proven over and over that DRM doesn't stop a determined pirate anyways, not even Steam does. There have been recent(as in the last few years) cases of games being pirated and put up for illegal downloading the same day the game released. All it does is piss off a fair amount of people, and screw people like myself over

But console day 1 30gb patches are coo?

Nope. That's why I don't buy console games until they've been out for a while and I no longer have to download a lengthy patch for something. Nice try at trying to skip the legitimate point I made by making a snarky comment though, really. Day one patches only affect how long I have to wait before I can play a console game, DRM causing PC games to become digital has permanently affected my gaming, forcing it to become 90% older games that I can just pop in and install. It's not by choice either, I'd love to play some of the more modern PC games, but I can't because of the "Steam is the bestest thing ever, it doesn't hurt or negatively affect anyone, hur hur" or "You must be a pirate if you don't like Steam DRM" mentality.

I got news for ya, I've never pirated, or even THOUGHT about pirating a game in my entire life.

I'm currently playing the PC version of Dishonored, specifically the Definitive Edition, which includes the base game and all the DLC. These include two big story expansions, which is what I got it for, the Dunwall City Trials, which is more of a "fun" addition than anything, and four separate packs that are basically cheat mods; they throw a bunch of bone charms at you at the beginning of the game, allow you to equip more of them at once than you could normally, and the game gives you a [censored]-ton of money as well.

Here's where problems began to arise for me. I want nothing to do with those cheats. I just want to play the game the way it was designed to be. If I had a choice, I wouldn't download the stupid things. But Steam doesn't really give me that option. It will download whatever parts of the game you technically "own" with or without your permission. And if you want to get your game fully patched, you have to get them as well. Now Steam allows you to pick and choose what expansion content you want to activate, so I could just check them off and be done with it. Except Steam has a bug (or maybe it's a feature?) that makes it reactivate mods I deliberately checked off, meaning that these cheats become active in my game and infect my saves without my realizing it until it's too late.

This is the crux of DRM and why a lot of people hate it; you are at the mercy of whatever measures the devs and publishers had decided on (or which they never intended), and those measures can lead to a lot of hassles and annoyances that you wouldn't have had to put up with otherwise. In my case above, it's partially because of how Steam works innately, and partially because of an oversight on Valve's part. My experience with the product that I paid for is getting spoiled because someone on their end [censored] up, and until they fix this (if they fix this) issue with a later update to the client, I have no choice but to put up with it. And since Steam is constantly changing and updating, more bugs in it are going to surface, which means there's always going to be a chance that future games are going to have issues. And it's not the only one. For a time, the offline mode for Steam was finicky and would require you to go into online mode just to play your games. Just because YOU haven't had any problems doesn't mean everyone else hasn't.

And that's just a small annoyance. In the past, there were DRM schemes that were not only far more draconian than Steam, but they also had a chance of wrecking your computer. Some, such as a rootkit that Sony used, made your computer vulnerable to malware, and others, like Starforce, would degrade and damage your disc drive. And the worst part is, both of these programs would remain on your computer even after you uninstalled the games and applications they were meant to protect, and you had to jump through hoops just to remove them from your system. To say nothing of other schemes that serve to only inconvenience the user, like those that limit how many times you can install the game, like what EA did with Spore and Mass Effect for a while, or those that force you to stay online to play even singleplayer games, like UPlay did. So when you actually see this stuff in action, you really get skeptical about DRM and prefer to not deal with it if at all possible.

And going back to how Steam is always changing to add more features and bugfixes, this leads to another issue: how long will it last? It might seem consumer-friendly for the time being, but Valve, like all companies, will eventually change, and with it, so will Steam. It may become more draconian in the future. It may become more buggy and unstable. It may cause performance issues or problems on your computer. And if you still want to play those 150+ games you bought on it, you'll have to deal with that [censored]. If you want to risk that, that's your business, but some of us would prefer to keep out bases checked by buying DRM-free products that don't won't inconvenience us, now or in the future.

The very same thing could be said in reverse about your contention: just because you have this problem does not mean everybody has it.

There is only way that what you describe could happen: you chose to configure Steam to run online and you also chose to configure Steam to update your game automatically. If you had not chosen to do these things the behavior you describe would not ordinarily happen.

I can counter your anecdotal evidence with my own. About a month ago I reinstalled Oblivion through Steam. Steam installed the game and all of the DLC. I didn't want the Horse Armor DLC so I deleted it. I play offline and have Steam configured to not update Oblivion automatically. Since I have been playing Oblivion there have been at least two Steam client updates. Neither one has resulted in Steam updating my game files.

I suggest you check your Steam settings if you are dissatisfied with the way Steam behaves.

I have to agree with this. Out of all the games I've played on Steam since Half Life 2 came out I have never once had a problem playing. I download the game and play. It's that simple.


It's the same with my games on GOG. Exact same thing I buy a game off of GoG, download if and play. End of story.


StarDock too. I play Gal Civ 2 off of that. I bought it, download it and play.

Digital Rights Management (DRM) affects the loyal paying customers.

I don't want to also be always online to play the singleplayer only video games or the singleplayer part of video games that also have multiplayer.

I don't want to create a bunch of accounts to launch video games through a launcher, like Electronic Arts (EA's) Origin and Ubisoft's uPlay.

I already have the Bethesda Softworks Bethesda.net account, two gog.com accounts, and four Steam accounts.

I'm upset at Bethesda Softworks making the Bethesda.net launcher for their video games. They will probably start making it a launcher through Steam like Ubisoft does with uPlay.

It's already a proven fact that a launcher or some sort of Digital Rights Management (DRM) copy right software that video games have lose about 10FPS or 20FPS.

Both the PC version of Batman: Arkham Asylum and the PC version of Batman: Arkham City when Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment and Rocksteady Studios removed Games for Windows Live (GFWL) and replaced with Steamworks it was reported people gained something like 10FPS to 20FPS.

There were quite a few other PC versions of video games that were moved from Games from Windows Live (GFWL) to Steamworks which got a increase in FPS.

SONY's SecuROM back in the past used to destroy hard drive disks.

http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/disk-drives/f/3534/t/19076153

StarForce also caused the same problems.

TAGES Solid Shield also caused some problems, but I don't remember what.

For quite a few people including me at one time I could not get Offline to work all the time. For a long time it was maybe a 50/50 chance of it working or not. That part seems to be working for me now. I think the issue was using an USB internet Stick and the IP Address was changing all the time. Also for me the not to update the game automatically never really worked for me since that setting liked to be enabled again after a Steam Update. Most of my games that I do have are no longer updated since most of them are a few years old. The few that are newer I do not mind that they get updated since most of the time those games do need them especially the few early access games I do have or just got out of it.

The Steam Offline Mode bug still happens for me.

Even though I set Steam in Offline Mode it always restarts and goes Online when there are updates.

For video games, singleplayer only video games even if I set them to not auto-update they always still auto-update.

Gabe Newell said he fixed this bug like in 2012 or something if I remember correctly, but it never got fixed for a lot of PC gamers.

Is there such a thing as too big to be indie? I consider Bethesda indie since they self-publish, but I know they are too big to be liked by the hipster types that like to romanticize small developers who they imagine make games out of their garages.

I consider the Bethesda Softworks portion to be a Triple A Indie. I also consider the team behind the Witcher games a Triple A Indie due to the size of both teams and the level of control they have on what they work one.

Don't you know? AAA developers do it only for the money and don't put any love into their games. Indie developers would never do anything like that. All AAA games just svck and are automatically worse than indie games.

Yeah, that mentality is annoying. It's sort of like when people argue that college (American) football players only care about their school and their love of the game, but pro players only care about money. Neither are true in a lot of cases.

Never really thought about considering Bethesda an indie company. They are pretty small for a AAA company, though.

It's strange how completely different people's experiences can be. I cannot think of a single time in which Steam has ever restarted and went online without my permission (in fact, half the time I am not even physically connected to the internet). None of my games have ever auto-updated either. But I have only been using Steam since Skyrim came out. So I don't have any experience with Steam in the old days. Maybe it was different back then? I don't know.

(By the way, this is coming from someone who doesn't like Steam and who wouldn't use it if it wasn't required. If Skyrim or New Vegas were ever to go on GOG - I'm not holding my breath - I would buy new copies of both games from GOG in a heartbeat.)

I still don't understand what the point of team pride (for fans) is when half the players aren't even from the city, let alone state, they're representing. The teams are arbitrary as crap.