Admidst all this talk of prone, how unfair it is, et cetera.. what most folks don't realize is that prone techniques form part of real world military training. Any field manual of military tactics isn't worth the medium it's written on if it doesn't describe several uses for going prone, up to and including being the basis of safely and tactically appraising a situation while peeking around corners. Basically, doing it from prone is far safer because nobody expects someone to round a corner from a foot off the ground.

Here's an excerpt from a globalsecurity.org military training manual:

Source: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-06-11/ch3.htm

Yeah, some of you might argue that this is a game, therefore the requirements of prone out to be different (and/or nonexistent), however the basic aim applies here as well -- survive.

Dropshots forever. :meh:

- F

Games aren't about surviving either. They're about having fun. And one of the things that the devs have made very clear is that they want the game to be as fun as possible for as many people as possible. It's why they weakened up their sniper rifles and grenades, and made it so there are very few one-shot-kills. Prone, as well as drop-shotting, are also some of those things that, while fun for a few people, are really really annoying to a lot more people. So they've gone the way of the Dodo.

A man with reason. Who let you in?

Amen to that. If everyone had that mentality the world would be a better place! lol

Certainly games are about fun, but they're also goal oriented. One of the main goals in FPS gaming is survival, and a great deal of fun for many is derived from that in various ways.

The mainstreaming of FPS gaming has made changes to the goals, and made them substantially less impressive to compete in, but staying alive shouldn't be any less valid as a goal. In fact, the addition of medics is a fairly significant sign that survival is quite important in Brink, possibly more so than other FPS games.

Prone as a feature doesn't take away anybody's enjoyment of the game, it's how some people use it and the game mechanics involved with it that cause annoyance.

Ok, so prone doesn't annoy people. People using prone annoys people. Check. :teehee:

And yeah, I'm not saying surviving isn't important. It is. Because staring at a respawn timer is no fun, and doesn't help your team win. Losing is also not fun. Enjoyment is the root from which everything else grows. Survival is important because it is fun, and dying is not fun. Likewise, winning is fun and losing is not fun. The problems arise when you get people who forget that they're playing a game and are supposed to be enjoying themselves. But that's a different subject entirely.

I enjoy winning its usually my teammates who need to work on surviving. :spotted owl:

Well, I think we're getting somewhere, but I have to push that just a little further. I've never known anyone to get mad at another player because they were laying down. :tongue:

And I'm almost positive that is 100% the subject.

My point for prone is that people play games differently and it's a feature used for certain styles of play. It's kind of like taking hotels out of monopoly; it doesn't effect those that never use it, but it is a part of the game.

I find too many features in most FPS games are for people that just want to run around, see everyone, and spray away. Which leaves many that aren't interested in that particular style lacking, and often heavily criticized because they don't play that way.

It might just be my personal experience, but I almost never see prone used for anything other than camping and drop-shotting, both of which are not well-liked by the majority of the online FPS community (just a guess, no hard numbers to back me up here). I've got nothing against playing tactically. I'm just not a fan of the easily-exploitable prone feature. Or camping, which prone just makes worse.

Mind if I ask your definition of camping? It's got a very loose definition in FPS gaming and I'm curious to get a sampling of opinions.

Camping in my opinion is saying in a spot for the sole reason of getting easy kills.

Sure. For me, camping is hiding out somewhere where you are difficult to remove, for extended periods of time, as you wait for some unlucky player to walk into your crosshairs.

A bit different from what a few have said,

camping is staying stationary, most commonly but not necessarily in a corner and/or prone position, waiting for someone to run by and shooting them as they do so.

I find it contradictory that the same people in this forum who say the want to play Brink because it is a team based strategy game, are the same people that complain about camping. Camping is fundamental tactics. And brink is going to require A LOT of it. if im not mistaking, more that half of the objectives require planting bomb or fixing things. And all of this means...wait for it.....camping

camping is taking easy kills from spawn points by taking a spot where your hard to be taken out of

different from holding chokepoints or protecting a route you can be flanked.

Precisely.

Im sorry but are you saying that it is not camping as long as it is a choke point ?

Camping as I said above is about motive and purpose.

Holding a area so the enemy can't easily pass is different from waiting in an area you get easy kills.

That's just my opinion of course.

Is there sporting chance?

Yes: Holding an area tactically by watching the are
Different from of camping its ppl thinking there doing this but really camping that has ppl confused what camping versus defending an area really are its Motive driven and cheap tactics that divide the 2

No: CAMPING in an area, your holed up in a corner prone can't be reach bc your far enough away to kill them b4 they get to you or you are taking off popshots at someone respawning at a spot designated as thus

The later the dev's have gone tp extra lengths to remove, close maps, no OHK weapons. medics with laz nades

I am under the impression Brink is being designed as a fast-paced, objective-based game.

Prone does not encourage fast paced, not to mention that I have never played a game with prone and been excited it was included.

So yeah, no prone please.

i think the more options for a player the better.

I don't mind if there's prone as long as you can't http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_snSNg7MPE&feature=related, and I don't mind it if there won't be prone, its not a game like Battlefield ( :meh: BC2) where you actually need to have prone for more than one combat scenarios that will have you killed if it weren't for prone.

What I'm saying is that it doesn't look like prone is essential for Brink but it could also be a nice addition... or maybe not, I haven't played it yet

A good collection of replies on this so far, always good to open up perceptions.

Are you considering a "sniper" as a camper in your definition? How long does one need to stay stationary before you consider it camping?

Obviously we would consider camping at the enemy spawn point a negative form, but how far does that go? How far out of spawn do they need to stay, how far do players need to be able to get out of spawn before it becomes their responsibility to watch their butts, etc.

Does weapon choice make a difference? Does the size of the FOV from a given position matter?

There's an excellent chance that even in this game, the dropshotters and proners will still find a way to make the noobs, the "a lot more people" you speak of, weep like the nether regions of the fairer six. Fully all of the best -- nay, world class -- players I've ever run into since I started playing first person shooters back when Duke Nukem was the rage were bunnyhoppers or in the case of newer games, a combination of that and prone shooters. They're also the kind that are deftly capable of dodging every bullet you fire at them and stabbing you in the face for your effort.

While those things might change in Brink, no amount of nerfing a game's mechanics will create the conditions for absolute appeasemant of the noobinati, because let's face it -- a pro is a pro iz 4 pr0.

- F

:rolleyes:

Heh.