On pronunciation

Post » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:22 pm

On pronunciation: A fragment of a larger conversation between a [redacted] scholar and an adventurer of variable repute, presented for your consideration

Scene begin

“If I may ask, I’ve noticed you pronounce certain words differently. Why is that?”

“Differently? By which standard do you speak of difference?” [Notice how the scholar answers a question with a question of his own, forcing the partner in his conversation to think and learn for himself.]

“Differently from everyone else, and me.”

“I see.” [The scholar is not disappointed with this response, for he has learned that these things take time.] “As an example, what words pose contention in your mind?”

“Mostly just ‘Daedra’. I’ve always been led to believe it’s supposed to be ‘day-dra’, but you always say ‘dee-dra’. There are some others. I heard you pronounce ‘vehr-mee-na’ as ‘veer-nee-ma’, or—”

“I do believe you have made your point.” [The scholar, of course, being an individual of great intellect, already knew what the adventurer was going to ask about.] “Well, my friend, are you interested in a small lesson on language?”

“Yes. I’m here to learn, after all.”

“So you are. Well, as you might know, such words as ‘Daedra’, ‘Aedra’, and the names of the lords of misrule are derived from Aldmeris by Ehlnofex (or perhaps the other way around, depending on whom you ask). Regardless, Aldmeris, as a language, has (or had, perhaps, though Altmeris is quite similar) a certain set of rules governing pronunciation. Of these, the pertinent ones relate to the digraph that you would now spell as ‘ae’. Traditionally, this is pronounced as ‘ee’, but as you well know, is now far more commonly pronounced as ‘ay’.

“This altered pronunciation is a result of old Cyrodilic spelling, ultimately. You see, when applying merish (mostly Ayleid, which was similar enough to Aldmeris in the relevant ways) words to their new language, they mostly left the spelling unaltered. However, traditional Cyrodilic pronunciation was quite different from that of the mer, and the ‘ae’ digraph would instead be pronounced as ‘aye’. Over time this diluted to ‘ay’. That you hear this across Tamriel now is simply due to Imperialization. Dare I say that the Summerset Isles might be the only place left where the traditional pronunciations would be more widespread.

“To preempt a future question, it is for very much the same reason that I pronounce ‘mer’ and the names of various merish races differently to you. Now, whether you view one pronunciation as more correct than another is a matter of taste. Naturally, as a scholar, I am inclined to say that my approach is the more correct one, and as a scholar, I am inclined to be correct.

“As for Vaernima, that is merely the variation of the prince’s name I was first exposed to, and as is the way with these things, is the one that comes most naturally to me. Though in that case, it seems that the Cyrodils did not take long before they realized how unwieldly it was to use even the aforementioned bastardization. Consistency in a language is a strange thing to ask for, it seems.

“I trust that answers your question? You should be able to extrapolate to other cases as necessary.”

[A lengthy monologue, to be sure, but truly, what scholar can fail to orate at length on a topic they are knowledgeable in?]

“It does. But while you’re a scholar, I’m an adventurer, and I’ve spoken to various Daedric princes in my travels, and they all pronounced things as I do. Some even said their names like that. I’m sure Hermaeus Mora wouldn’t mispronounce his own name. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but why would they do that?”

“Oh, I do not doubt that be the case. But the Daedra are not so out of touch with mortal affairs. I believe they simply did not want to have this same conversation with you.”

Scene end

[The mind of the present author is obviously not as astute as that of the scholar in question, and so inquires of those more knowledgeable as to the legitimacy of the claims made by the scholar.]

User avatar
Marilú
 
Posts: 3449
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:17 am

Post » Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:20 am

"Oi! I can pronounce it 'Day-druh' if I want to, ye poncy [censored]! We been pronouncin' it this way since the fall o' the Potentates o'er here!"

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by putting those explanations in brackets. The phrasing is awkward, sounds condescending towards the reader, and breaks the flow of the piece. Surely we can come to those conclusions you've so clearly elaborated by ourselves? Also, please check your spelling. It would also probably be nice if you elaborated on that last bit with the Daedric Princes themselves, because that isn't something that usually gets brought up in conversations and then dropped.

It is nice to see more people bringing up TES linguistics, though. :D Welcome, and have a http://images.uesp.net/c/c4/Fishystick.jpg.

User avatar
neil slattery
 
Posts: 3358
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 4:57 am

Post » Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:26 am

The brackets are... flavor? They, along with the general style of the scholar's writing, are supposed to get across the idea that he's a bit full of himself. It's just a bit of silly in-character thing that I did. Think of it as a transcribed record of the conversation and the scholar's thoughts at various points. It certainly isn't meant to offend the reader. [The present author would never do such a thing!] It's incomplete, naturally, because it's just part of a hypothetical larger conversation where the ill-defined adventurer would be able to then inquire on other topics, or for elaboration on others. Hence the abrupt end (and beginning, really). Nothing I ever plan(ned) on doing, just the way my brain works (or doesn't, depending on the occasion).

I mostly just wanted to know how legitimate the argument could be considered to be within the constraints of what we know about languages in TES. The idea was to try to reconcile, at least in my mind, the differences between that pre-Morrowind pronunciation guide that was never used in the games.

Oh, and what'd I misspell? Admittedly, I do have difficulty finding my own mistakes sometimes, but I did try to proofread it. (Spellcheck agreed with at least 90% of the real world spellings. Honest.)

(Also also, don't like fish. I think I shall be insulted by the offer. Hmph.)

User avatar
Kit Marsden
 
Posts: 3467
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:19 pm

Post » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:16 am

I don't know, going out of the way to talk like the Aldmer wile sticking with an unused incorrect by both current and Aldmer variant of Vaermina seems a bit contradictory.

User avatar
jesse villaneda
 
Posts: 3359
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:37 pm


Return to The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion