I wrote this on GameFaqs.




Wes Jonson, who was the voice actor of most imperials in Oblivion , and the voice actor of Sheogorath in both Oblivion and Skyrim. Confirmed at magfest X ages ago that the Champion of Cyrodil did infact mantle Sheogorath.

These are his exact words.

What happens in 200 years it dosen't matter wether your an Argonian, a male or female! as long as you have the Wabbajack! over 200 years! you will morph into the Daedric prince of Madness. Yes thats right.

heres the vid skip to the 10http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpP92Fi7s_Q minute mark and he will explain it.

Now there is no more fighting over the fact the Champion became sheogorath!.


He also brought the Accent Controversy to rest.

Sheogoraths accent is an irish and Scottish accent. hes Irish when calm/Demented and Scottish when mad/Maniac.

Is it possible for someone else to have mantled Sheogorath in that time period? If not, then that really screws up my RP.

Yes, but as is the case we state here all the time, its really up to you and your personal stories. Yes, it is possible, but its by no means what personally happened for your character.

He asks the audience, who do you think the Sheogorath in skyrim, all of them say the champion and wes says thats right! , i know some folks wouldn't have role played as the new sheogorath. But it is now canon that the lore champion not the personal one did in fact mantle sheogorath.

Yes! but its only been 200 hundred years! and sheogorath dosen't need to find a replacement for another few thousand. As eventually he will mantle Jyggalag as Arden sul did.

It most certainly is not 'canon'.
Canon requires proof, and there is no proof.

There is conjecture and there are hints and one can say that it is likely that the CoC mantled Sheogorath but one certainly cannot say it is 'true'.
Going over the in-game dialogue with a fine comb there are plenty of hints that Sheogorath is talking about the time of the Oblivion crisis but this does not have to mean and it is most empathetically not certain he is talking about the CoC.

Well actually friend, if you watched the video!, he asks the audience whom they think Sheogorath in Skyrim is, they state the champion of Cyrodil and he confirms their awnser. So i would take that as canon, also he is quite a lore buff himself.

Please watch the first 8-to 20 minutes then come back with your opinions. Don't just read what i wrote and then assume listen to the man himself.
Jonson is not like a high class celeb voice actor who knows nothing about games and just reads lines. Hes an avid elder scroll fan and lore buff himself
and i would take him statements as pretty much golden facts. He knows a lot more than most of us , hes been there since well since voice acting came to the Elder Scrolls.

So the voice actor on a convention talking to fans gets to decide what is 'canon'?
I dont think so.

First of all, 'canon' is a tricky matter when it comes to TES.
I would argue that there is no such thing, or if there is, only in the broadest possible terms.

We can talk about lore, we can talk about likelyhood, possibility and which of those is most interesting but when it comes to something as detailed as stating that the CoC is Sheogorath, we need a whole lot more than what a voice actor thinks of it.
When it comes to the sources that are important in this matter there simply is not enough information and what there is is too ambiguous to state this as a certainty.

Personally, I find the notion that in this case it always happened this way boring and therefore wrong.
I find it trite and poor storytelling to assume that the hero of Oblivion did everything in that game and as I have detailed in posts about this issue before, there simply is no lore-backing for a single person that became leader of all the guilds and did all the quests in a single game, from Arena to Skyrim.
To me, the main quest and only the main quest and related material is 'canon'.
The rest is, and has to be for the sake of decent storytelling, facultative or shrouded in mystery.

I think you could add in "Events that happened as a result of a player character, but didn't necessarily require the player to have happened." For example, Raven Rock being founded directly involved Morrowind's PC, but it would have been founded and grown in any case, so it definitely happened. Another Morrowind example would be the founding of Rethan Manor, Indarys Manor, and Tel Uvirith. Though the PC is involved in the construction of one, each other is founded by an NPC, so even if the PC didn't join a Great House, each was founded in lore.

To me at least. The characters of Oblivion and Morrowind etc, did become the leaders of the guilds but only temporairly in terms of lore. Their final mantle is what i would consider canon.
Such as Lore not personal! the hero of Kvatch becoming Sheogorath. He becomes Sheogorath then someone else replaces
the Thieve's, Mages, DB, FG, leader positions. There is no need for a divine crusader at the moment, the mantling of Peninal was finished when Umaril was finally defeated. The knights of the Nine would look after the relics while lore champion wen't off to fufill his destiny as Sheogorath his final mantle until Jyggalag comes knocking.

As I have pointed out before, that portal was an open invitation.
For all we know it was Farwell Indarys that stepped through and became the madgod.

Conjecture is fine, but I get a little tetchy when people insist on no conclusive evidence in particular that their version of events is the one and only true one.
'Canon' is not a word that should be used when it comes to TES lore, at least not lightly.

Besides, people are too hung up on that word.
Is it lore? Yes. No doubt.
Is it canon? Who knows, that word is too restrictive, it leeches all the fun away.

In my mind this basically points the lore champion being Sheogorath. but for the doubters it dismarks their claims he is not at all the champion down a good few marks.
It's up to you to believe what you wan't, but Jonson is a very good source of information. Brillian't man and as i keep mentioning is a very big lore buff and knows
the deep things of the Elder Scrolls, godhead , dwemer turning into skin etc Talos is avatared by 3 differen't folks, etc etc he knows all that so i would trust him more than a common voice actor.

Well of course nothing is fully canon ,nothing in the real world is fully canon. Real world history and perspectives on historical people is not canon it can be changed and twisted by others. But my point is in terms of 100 percent canon this for me and probably many others gives the 95 percent boost out of 100 percent certainty of the actual fate of the lore version of the Champion of Cyrodil.

Wait, people still doubt the CoC mantled Sheo? What crazy form of stubborness this? If Bethesda themselves came out and confirmed it I bet they would still doubt it. You can't beat that logic.

Show me proof then.
Not conjecture, not vague god-speak that could mean anything.
Actual proof. There isnt any you see.

Its fine to say it is likely and it is fine to say its not impossible but it is not fine to declare something as irrevocably true without proof.

In my mind, it will always be boring and therefore wrong, because the notion that the hero of the game does everything in the entire game is just silly. It removes all those myriad heroes with their caleidoscope of personalities and replaces it with a cardboard cutout of a just-so.
Its unrealistic in that there is never any mention of these de-facto emperors. Its trite in that its very cliche.
Its just boring to me.

There's no need for a proof that the CoC "morphed" into Sheogorath, but that's just my personal opinion. Some times, it's just common sense.

Unfortunately 'common sense' is not an accepted method of scholarly investigation.
It has nothing to do with truth, or reality for that matter.
'Common sense' would have me close the curtains at dusk to 'keep the dark out', or it would insist that something like cold, or indeed a hole in the ground, has a discreet and quantifiable existence when it is in fact the absense of something.
'Common sense' has not been a credited method of inquiry since http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phlogiston_theory.