Ah yes, i just had a look through the CS. Yea those two classes are non-playable.

In any case they arent really what i wanted for the class (see previous posts. dont really need restoration or hand-to-hand...)

I think ive decided not to put in any class. You'll have to earn the right to become an ordinator, not just tell some silly Census agent that you are one...

:foodndrink:

Aha! Finally found the actual topic for this... dusty and un-commented on since September.


I think I'll change that... because this idea is a damned good one... and it'd be a shame if people forgot about it just because the author is currently addicted to minecraft. I mean really! Minecraft is awesome... and all of you should go play it while you wait... but this mod has some serious potential for being amazing. Or at the very least the 'closest thing' you'll ever get to actually being able to join the Ordinators in a realistic way.

And lets face it... most people have wanted to join them... if only to get the armor and bash heretics in the face.

So lets hear some support, and constructive criticism, and all that good stuff.

And hell, if you get sick of waiting on Psycholex to finish this... and if you can script and write quests worth a Septim... fire -me- off a reply, and I'll give you my massive wall of 'planned material' for my 'Join the Ordinators' mod which never progressed far enough in development to earn a permanent name.

But I find it much more likely that we'll all just sit and wait patiently.

Which is cool, too.

Good on you psycholex for playing minecraft, but dont forget about us morrowind players

On the good side, I discovered Minecraft thanks to Psycholex.
On the bad side, I'm now stuck waiting on the development of both Ordinator Ascension and Minecraft. :ahhh:

But that's okay. Nethack will keep me busy for a long time I think.

Oh yes, Minecraft. I've kind of stopped playing Morrowind because of Minecraft...

Wait, I've stopped playing Morrowind? WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO ME?!

Y'know this sounds all kinds of awesome. Damn you Minecraft :swear: Doesn't that need some kind of stone path up to the front door and steps up from the main walkway? I wouldn't want to muddy my Indoril boots when it's raining...
This kind of thing I love, not necessarily goodies vs baddies but more shades of grey. So... people have mentioned the bouyant armigers so why not some reports have reached Mournhold of problems with the garrison at Ghostgate, the PC is sent to investigate and uncovers that the leader of the bouyant armigers is attempting to make the Ordinators there look bad by nixing their weapons and armour. Perhaps there's a smithy where sub-standard metalworking goes on hidden in the ashlands. The PC needs to ask around, maybe follow an NPC who works there or find some incriminating objects. Or if not bouyant armigers then perhaps some Sixth House guys have infiltrated the support staff at Ghostgate.

I also like the idea of internal dissent and politicking within the faction, this can lead to dialogue-based quests where someone's sword never leaves its scabbard. Always cool. Perhaps the Order of War resent being looked at as the blunt instrument by the Order of the Inquisition. It sounds to me like the former act in groups and the latter singly. So perhaps the Order of War has engineered a situation (maybe just by being economical with the truth) where a single Inquisitor was sent to investigate dissent and was seriously outclassed and a detachment from the Order of War was needed to stamp out the dissenters, Order of War looks good and the only downside is the death of one Inquisitor. Can the PC uncover the truth?

If you're after a hack'n'slash then why not have an early opening (or attempted opening) of an Oblivion Gate?

Anyway, this sounds all kinds of awesome :thumbsup:

This is a great mod idea! NEVER SAY DIE!!!!!!!!!!

i don't know how to use the construction set though! Now I'll never have my uber character be able to play as an ordinator. :nope: I think that it should be up to the player to decide whether or not he should join a faction.

Sounds amazing so far, Psycholex, keep up the good work. Can't wait for this to be released!

I get what the OP says about lore and being able to CS the dialogue to get into the faction with a non-Dunmer, but I have one beef...

I want it to be harder than that. Call me crazy, but I don't think it breaks lore to have the PC be accepted as a non-Dunmer. The PC has been well established as being more than your average Outlander. In fact, we have it on good authority that "Hero" has a native Dunmer soul anyway. So, I think a non-Dunmer should be able to prove themself. It just shouldn't be easy...or hard...it should be something no Outlander has ever managed to do before. Like say, being named Horator(sp?)...or for something that doesn't touch the main quest, maybe being recommended to the order by someone of influence. Vivec comes to mind, or maybe in some way winning the approval of an Indoril patron (certainly not easy, and maybe requiring more quests in itself).

The reason I suggest this is simple. I really respect lore, but I also want players to have options. So I aim more for "Lore Friendly" than strictly "Lore Correct". Which amounts to feeling that the Ordinators should make an exception for the player...but that "Hero" should have to work their Outlander bum off to earn it.

So Kefke, you're suggesting make the Initiate stage tougher? I'd suggest keeping those two basic missions, since they're complete already, then, if he wants to add a tougher mission, it can be at the end, kind of like the end to the normal Ordinator quest line. The person joining the Ordinators is already a Curate in the Temple so they've somewhat proved themselves already, it won't be like a stranger coming out and applying.

Haha WOW guys :blush: Awesome. First time ive been on in a while i know. I'll try and reply to key things ppl have said recently.



Minecraft is quite the awesome. I discovered a great pay-to-play community but the guy running the show is a total :swear: so after getting banned for no good reason while trying to buildhttp://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/home/images/zoneoverviews/KadrinValley01.jpg, and losing my membership money, i have returned to the warm comfort of Morrowind yet again haha
Some people just dont suit 'community leading' positions, but when the guy runs the server, cant really argue hey.
Edit: Lol how did you guys know i got into Minecraft? haha i dont remember posting about it here! lololol (post a link) scary stalker fans



Cheers man. The thing about the building in the garden does sort of annoy me a little.. but since the whole thing (cell) is one giant item, i cant really edit it easily. And i have never tried mucking around with nifscope or whatever. In the 'tweaks' stage before final release i will look at fixing aesthetic things like that. But by level 40/60 you will probably be able to jump over the grass eaily anyway haha. The Oblivion Gate idea is.. tricky. Ive got a few ideas for similar things, and will probably be alot more epic that just one Daedric Gate -> "Oh balls, a giant Daedric Fortress. [unsheathes sword] RAWR!!!1!

:obliviongate:


Lalalalalalalalalalala i cant hear you.. oh fine. Yes: I know lots of people are going to want this. I will probably release a patch with it that allows non-Dunmer to get in.. but honestly im not really happy about it. I guess i'll just put my pride to the side and give you what you want. The case that Kafke makes does.. sort.. of.. make.. sense. So maybe i could work something into it. Or i could install a "key" to the dialogue so that if you are a non-dumner, but have like something random like a 6th House Bellhammer on you it will ignore it and go ahead. Meh [brainstorms some more]

Edit: and you wont need to use the cs to get an uber character or anything like that.. (not that you can anyway..) This is not something i want people to complete over night. This is a career! This is long term modding hopefully at its finest. Something that will give your character more purpose than he/she/it has ever had. Sounds like im blowing my own horn, but yea: this is guna be intense. Also: once you get into the High Ordinators as an Initiate, the Order will basically PAY your way to level 60. In my experience, level 40 is already a deadly character, so getting helped along alot to level 60 isnt really 'cheap'. Level 40 = able to kill 95% of everything easily. Level 60 = able to kill 99% of everything easy. Keep in mind that High Ordinators are scaled up to Tribunal-grade toughness, so ive got to help people up there. And you can always choose not to take the training grants and do it the hard way. "The power is yours!" - Captain Planet




Pretty much. Qualifying even as a Curate of the Temple is alot of work. So minimum entry is already not so easy. The idea about winning the approval of the Indoril really comes into effect when going for High Ordinator, cos you are going to have to prove yourself to one of their respected commanders: some Indoriil Lord. Ive taken a bit of a liberty with one or two small lore elements. Not changing anything, but more filling in the blanks with existing stuff. Dont want to give toooo much away, and its not going to be to extreme. (certainly doesnt warrant writing 2 lines about it)

As for toughness well: :celebration: its going to get tough guys. This is not the fighters guild that you can complete in a few hours. While not intended to be a total death-fest, some missions will be more symbolic and easy, but many others will be quite a challenge. The idea in my head is to make it hard getting up to and into the High Ordinators, and then when you are at that stage, you are helped about along to the very higher levels so that the fun doesnt come from struggling against impossible odds: it comes from PWN-ing impossible odds (maybe).

Difficult to predict how everyone will experience it, but there should be enough in it for everyone.

Now: You obviously are probably wondering where i am up to with the mod. Short answer is theres still alot to do. Ive got a business to run and university exams coming up in the next few weeks, but with my disowning of Minecraft and a long break coming up, i should hopefully be able to crack this out by the end of the year. Fingers crossed.

In terms of missions: ive basically finished the 7 High Ordinator Initiate Missions. Then i'll work on a "boss-grade" quest which will act as a sort of final-initiation quest where you will go up against said bliviongate: -thing. Then im running thin on ideas for 'full' High Ordinators. Ive taken note of all the good ideas so far, so please dont repeat any to me. There seems to be a definate want for something to do with a conflict/competition between the High/Ordinators/Bouyant so that will get in there. Since i want to stay away from the MainQuest stuff, im sort of trying to resist anything with MAJOR 6th house stuff in it. One real good idea was some dunmer guy who finds Dagoth Ur's mask and... But this could obviously be difficult yo arrange since not everyone will have maybe done all that in their game. So: meh.

I am taken a back that people are activly lusting for this mod (and to be honest, so am i haha), so thanks for the support guys. I am quite encouraged to jump back into the cs-saddle and get cracking. Very motivating

So: ideas for 'full' HO missions and maybe even ideas for how to 'finish' the faction quests off. I know most factions have some story->resolution at the end and while i do want something like that, i also want feasible options to encourage people to CONTINUE in their role as an Ordinator (and maybe you will be a Master by then). I attempted this in Ordo Daemonica, but in all honesty it wasnt very.. fulfilling.

/rant

Edit: sorry bout the poor grammar, im quite tired and tipsy

Well, the character is only an outlander. Perhaps, as a High Ordinator, one of the missions ends in a failure (didn't get to such-and-such place on time, someone beat you to it), either giving an excuse to prevent further advancement besides just being an outlander or prompting the character to frantically fix it before reporting back. The High Ordinators are always at odds with Helseth's goons, perhaps a race to get to the bottom of something in Mournhold? Some playing dirty, as you have experience with the Inquisition, maintaining the Temple's superiority in the capital over the king of Morrowind. A propaganda war with the Armigers was already suggested, but they're ultimately on the same side as the Ordinators and both know it. The king has Imperial ties, I think his faction is a better subject for a serious "cold war".

Sorry if that's already been posted, I didn't see it when I read through the first time and I'm short on time to post.

Ive put lots of effort into the initiation missions to try and get that dynamic. A few of them have the potential for you to fail them. Best example of this is one mission that has a couple of ways to complete it which leads to basically one of three outcomes: Good job, average job, bad job. Good = added reward for completion; Bad = burdened with a punishment until entire initiation is complete. Hopefully small little details like this will add some dynamic-ness to them.

The idea about 'cold war-ing' it with the goons sounds pretty good. Most of the stuff before becoming a 'full' high ordinator centres around going back to Vvardenfell (obviously cos there is more room for me to put stuff/whatever. But ideas for Mournhold centred things are very welcome. Just have to make sure i dont go near the Tribunal-Main quest in anyway.

Definately good food for thought in anycase.

The main trouble with ALL mods is trying to figure out new quest models. Unfortunately basically everything (even in original game) is: Kill this, Get this, Go there, Talk to them. The trouble/fun is trying to disguise these base models with good well thought out background, and neat distractions along the way. Hopefully i'll be able to do that.

If anybody with a creative streak has any good ideas for NEW quest models for me to use, feel free to post.

There's tracking people without getting too close/noticed. Missions requiring you to do your own investigations to find out what people are like/where they go/who they speak with? These aren't exactly High Ordinator quality, but as level 60 warriors, their job is mostly made up of kill this, protect them, defend this area. They're warriors able to survive the harshest conditions and the most overwhelming battle odds. It may not be creative, but the job is probably going to be centered around killing or defending if it's High Ordinator. They have other departments for the rest.

There's plenty for them to do in Mournhold. Goblins are pretty much out since you get that job in the main story, but you could expand on the Black Dart gang. They're as tough as any group I ever encountered in that game. A branch of them on Vvardenfell, perhaps a connection between them and the Cammona Tong? The quest in Tribunal has you taking them out in the old city ruins, but there has to be more depth to it than a tough gang. They could have a special source for their extremely powerful darts that the High Ordinators need captured/neutralized. Or black operations against the Imperials? Vivec allowed the Imperials to occupy peacefully, but perhaps Almalexia wants resistance carried out while she focuses her energies on the Ghostfence.

On Vvardenfell, there are still large factions to combat. The Cammona Tong, while not outspoken against the Temple, must not support Vivec for his acceptance of Imperial rule. With heavy connections to the Fighters Guild and Hlaalu, they're potent to say the least. Perhaps a job defending Vivec himself? There are also the vampire clans. As you're a High Ordinator, these would all obviously be "Here's the problem, fix it." and end of discussion. One of their best should be able to figure it all out themselves.

I'll continue to try to think of quests that break from the formats you listed. Those are just a few ideas that fall into those categories listed already. Is the mod limited to Mournhold and Vvardenfell, or will it be Bloodmoon dependent as well?

I wish I had some good quest concept to share, but I'm currently out of ideas. And looking at the high ordinators in-game to get ideas only leads to things like that:

Leader: "Congratulations! You are now a member of the High Ordinators. Your next mission will be to wander aimlessly in the streets of Mournhold without ever resting and to occasionally slaughter some outlanders who tries to pick our precious flowers. That is all."
Me: "Gee, thanks. Words cannot express my joy. -_-"

Problem is, I don't really know what High Ordinators do. Do they break into the house of some suspected heretics/traitors and arrest/interrogate them? Or do they just patrol in town at night, slaughtering gangmembers/thugs? Their job is a mystery to me.

P.S: Good to see you back in Morrowind, Psycholex.

Well, by level 60 you had damn well better be a powerhouse, especially in a combat-oriented faction. Perhaps a "survival mode" mission is in order? For example, the tomb of some arbitrary evil sorcerer has recently been uncovered, you must go there and stand fast against the necromancer's undead hoard until the priests complete a purification spell.

I think they already did that one in the Mournhold Temple quests. The temple purification thing, but the survival mission isn't too bad an idea.

okay, i read that you don't want to touch the mainquest and your people just don't recognize you as nerevarine. but let's face it: doing both the same time will make you a traitor.

so why not building this in? very simplified: at some point someone will connect you and plea to fight ur. you do quests in a sideline - or you don't. you can just send the pleader away. it reminded me of vampire bloodlines where you as a roleplayer can "join" the anarchs but the questline and progress in the mainstory stays the same, the outcome is the same. so this would - hopefully lorefriendly - set the mainquest and your faction together. i love mws great use of opportunities. so give the people choices to do between a honourable and feared ordinator and a helpful nerevarine. or let them be both

By level 40 you will be invincible anyway (unless you svck). lol
The leveling up to 60 is partly for lore/game correctness stuff, and partly just so that you can be as invincible as the other High Ordinators who, lets face it, are damn tough.
Im looking forward to rigging up a 'survival' mission which will have rediculous amounts of enemies nothing more satisfying that facing legions of foes and come out of it bloody, victorious and smiling
Combining it with a purification mission would be complex.. one of the few things i dont feel confident doing in the cs is planning out AI grid paths and stuff (though im sure theres some easy scripting commands that could do it, instead of activating AI packages.. or something :bonk: )


Yes


I.. am not keen on having to map out the main quest and POA's quests to find opportunities to link componenets. That will only delay completion by ages..
The only thing i will entertain thinking about is including a dialogue checker for THAT stage of the main quest when your running around trying to prove yourself and the Temple gets annoyed. But to be honest any plans for that will be done at the end and wont include any crossing over elements of "oh your a high ordinator, can you [insert some situation which will make my arguement valid] please".
The same arguement for not including crossover with the Tribunal Quest is also obviously relevent to the Main Quest.


Firstly yes, thats sort of the inevitable situation i fear for the end of the faction quests. All factions have this death factor to completing them and im still scratching my head to think of how to get around that.. The flower collection idea is great tho haha jj

HO's... walk around.. and.. swear at foreigners.. and have. shinny. armor. and stuff. ^_^

Cheers for the last bit :blush2: :celebration:

I haven't read the whole 5 pages of this thread yet, so sorry if someone asked this already.

I would love to help you on this mod. If I can help you in some way (for example you need a scripter, tester or need feedback on a quest or something let me know).

On another note. If I remember it right the ordinators in game (for example the guys in Ghostgate) have a topic about their "order", which tells you that there are 4 branches within the "order". I guess Bethesda wanted to make the ordinators joinable but decided against it later.
Did you incorporate that "topic" or "hierarchy structure" into your mod?

Haha should probably read the first post on page one Covers alot of that. I have been lore correct and used those four Orders for the 'normal' Ordinators componenet, and you will need to progress through all of them (if u want). Read the first post

As for the help part, well i think its probably 60-70% finished (very rough estimate). Ive still got all the 'mainstream' High Ordinator missions to complete and then have to smooth some bumps, and figure out a way to get away from the previously discussed problem of "faction death".. In anycase, whenever im ready at a solid beta stage (pre-release basically) i'll probably give some thought to getting a few experienced/keen chaps to test it for me. To be honest ive got all the rest of the 'skills' pretty solid now. Hell, for the effects and dynamic questing ive wanted ive had to put together some 40 scripts (of varying sizes and complexities) so this experience has been a real good one for finding holes in my knowledge. Self-actualization for the win.

If youve got some spare time, read through the entire thread and see where its at.

My thought went more along the lines of, "Go into this evil infested place and don't come out until we say so. It is strongly implied we are doing important holy stuff out here that will be utterly bollixed if you don't guard the door from the inside." Sort of like in FF Tactics A2 when you have to face respawning enemies for X rounds while reinforcements/energy for the super weapon/whatnot is gathered off screen.

i'm not too lore savvy, but what if one becomes one of Almalexia's hands, gains her trust, and becomes her personal agent? or perhaps for Vivec?

Mkay, couple of things:

a. since i cannot predict where people are up to in the Tribunal Main Quest, i decided to not incorporate it. [trying not to put in too many spoilers].
b. There are only a handful (pun intended) of Hands, and i figured that i could justify people becoming an Ordinator, High Ordinator, and even possibly the Master of that Fortress Monastary, but i couldnt justify you becoming a Hand. They have been in service to the Lady for centuries, and that kind of worthiness-proving effort is beyond the scope of any mod. And anyway: the Hands spend their whole time with the Lady. Are you willing to spend the entire game standing in one room? lol. Its just not realisic.
c. It might be good to leave some unattainable positions just so this unrealistic feeling of being able to get everything isnt there.

Vivec doesnt have personal servants. His Armigers are the closest thing, but even they are distant. Vivec is/was one of the most personally active Tribunal members around. Vivec=personal, Alm=distant, Sotha=super reclusive

In anycase, the Purpose of the High Ordinators is not actually direct service to the Lady. Thats what the Hands are for. The HO's are there to enforce Her will and defend Her domain/city/interests/followers. By distancing yourself from poweful things like the Tribunal, they get a stronger mystical feel too, etc etc etc.

So: No, becoming a Hand will not be an option in POA. Sorry to burst that bubble :/