No problemmo,

I got 3 Spell Tomes as quest reward for the Dreamworld quest. This brought up my mercantile skill from 5 to 7, which seems to be a lot. I use Progress with Bofra's values and a skill slowdown of something between 4 and 5 times which is "very slow".

Now, is your mercantile leveling speed unaffected by Progress? If so, can I... slow it down?

Dont worry it will slow down exponentially, but I'll take a look in it to see if there could be a problem, or maybe I'll make a version that works with progress.

It should work with progress provided it's loading afterward (which isn't an issue since Progress is an ESM). Go to the Progress INI and set the Mercantile advancement back to the vanilla value (0.4?) It shouldn't matter but I did it to my INI anyways. Also, you were only level 5 mercantile and I suspect Spell Tomes are worth more than, say a Repair Hammer, so I think getting two levels (when going from 5-7) isn't a big deal. As Sphagne said, it's exponential, so you won't be asking for a slowdown at level 70 mercantile .

-Francisco-

To be more clear, I was talking about the optional mercantile ESP. I guess it uses a scripted skill progression that overules Progress and I think that it may be adapted to the vanilla skill progression. Since I use Progress with about 4x slower than vanilla, I want to know if this mercantile script can be adjusted to this global slowdown 4 times.

I was talking about the mercantile ESP as well. No, setting Progress to slower won't have any effect AFAIK because the PI mercantile plugin is based on gold, not quantity sold. There might be a way of slowing down the PI Mercantile plugin but it would have to be done with the CS, so you gotta wait for Sphagne.

-Francisco-

OK from spMerchant's readme.

The amount of gold needed for each level in mercantile to advance is calculated as follows:

Set tmp to Player.GetBaseActorValue Mercantile
Set Exchange to ( c2 * tmp * tmp ) + ( c1 * tmp ) + c0

Where [c0=30], [c1=12] and [c2=0.45]. Example amounts are below:

Mer[20]: Exchange money = 180 + 240 + 30 = 450
Mer[40]: Exchange money = 720 + 480 + 30 = 1230
Mer[60]: Exchange money = 1620 + 720 + 30 = 2370
Mer[80]: Exchange money = 2880 + 960 + 30 = 3870

So if you are level 60 of mercantile and want to advance to 61, you have to sell enough loot to gain 2370 gold or buy items or spells that are priced five time more i.e. 11850 gold.

But I think I will release a version that uses global variables as formula coefficients so that you can change them as you like.

Cheers.

That's very nice, but don't trouble yourself too much on my account. I do not want to hold up your WIP DICE and should try your values for some time. Also, mercantile is a special skill anyway.

Cheers!

No problem, and it would not take long to do that.

Updated Mercantile plugin to add new "Global Variables", for people who want to tweak the rates.

------------------

From Read-Me:

NOTE: USERS OF "PROGRESS" SHOULD KNOW THAT THIS MOD TRIES TO TAKE MERCANTILE PROGRESSION IN HAND AND RAISE IT MANUALLY, BUT "PROGRESS" RESTORES THE MERCANTILE PROGRESSION TO THE OBLIVION ENGINE, SO YOU WOULD HAVE A COMBINED PROGRESSION OF MERCANTILE AND IT WOULD RISE ALMOST TWICE AS FAST.

SOLUTION: YOU SHOULD LOWER THE RATE OF MERCANTILE PROGRESSION IN "PROGRESS" TO ZERO, OR NEAR IT.

------------------

For each level of mercantile you have to exchange a sum of money to be able to advance to the next level, and the amount of money you need to exchange is calculated by the following formula:

		Set tmp to Player.GetBaseActorValue Mercantile		Set Exchange to ( spMerC2 * tmp * tmp ) + ( spMerC1 * tmp ) + spMerC0

Where [spMerC0=30], [spMerC1=12] and [spMerC2=0.45], by default. Example amounts are below:

Mer[20]: Exchange money =  180 + 240 + 30 = 450Mer[40]: Exchange money =  720 + 480 + 30 = 1230Mer[60]: Exchange money = 1620 + 720 + 30 = 2370Mer[80]: Exchange money = 2880 + 960 + 30 = 3870

So if your mercantile is 60 you need to sell 2370 Septims worth of loot to the vendors in order to advance in mercantile.
Or you have to buy spells and items totally worth 2370/0.2=11850 Septims.

Remember if you buy a house or horse, their price is calculated as well.

------------------------------

There are some "Global Variables" that affect the Mercantile skill progression, and you can change them if you know what you are doing.

	Variable = Default value; Syntax

Mercantile cap: If you use Elys Uncapper you can raise it, or you can limit yourself and lower it.

	spMerCap = 100

Formula coefficients: You can play with them, but be wary, as this is an exponential formula.

	spMerC0 = 30.0; Constant	spMerC1 = 12.0; Linear	spMerC2 = 0.45; Exponential

Effect of buying and selling on Mercantile progression: Lower them for harder setting.

	spMerRatioBuy  = 0.2	spMerRatioSell = 1.0

Note: if you lower the Buy and Sell ratios, it would take more gold to raise your Mercantile skill.

Download it http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13677.

Thanks for the update Sphagne!

I'll set up Progress accordingly. So what variables do you suggest changing? I was thinking:

spMerRatioBuy = 0.1spMerRatioSell = 0.5

To have Mercantile develop 2x slow since I have Progress set to 2x slow as well.

-Francisco-

Yes that would do the job, or you can change the formula coefficients for more control but it requires a bit of mathematics and some patience as well.

Just a remainder, you should tell "Progress" to stop progressing mercantile skill, as my mod takes care of it.

Yea I set it to 0 in the Progress INI.

Does anyone have recommendations for Progress settings when using this mod.

I think I broke something.

I had previously (on a different character) used Realistic Leveling and Progress and had Progress ini setting 'Progress.iLevelUpSkillCount to 100' which I recall reading was the recommended number for RL to do its thing.

I did not change that setting and with a new character started off with Pure Immersion (1.51) and played for a long time with no leveling. I had set this mods to 'Advanced Character progression' and tweaked the settings just so.

Played and played and played - no leveling. Slowed progress down to 1x (from 5x then 3x) then thought oops maybe iLevelUpSkillCount should be default for Progress which is 10.

adventured a little more then got level up sign but no sign of Pure Immersion kicking in no options at level up and it was purely a vanilla leveling (in fact automatically to level 5) but with no apparent skill gains.

So it seems broken - anything I can do to fix it?

Gonna make experimental saves and try clean install of PI and see.

thanks

Clarification
- I don't automatically go to level 5 I get 5 opportunities to level by sleeping.

Normally when using PI there is the opportunity to adjust some stats too, but not now.

I tired clean saves - uhh definitely not a good idea as this thing needs to be loaded prior to exiting the tutorial dungeon in order to activate. For the life of me though I dont recall deactivating the mod at any time. Any time I do testings with restricted load orders I usually create a alternate profile with bash export some saves and then test. But then gop back top main saves to continue playing.

I am seeming to get messages that attributes increased.

Perhaps by reducing the levelupSkillDCount that forced 5 level opportunities at once which is overriding PIs regular level up screen that offers attribute bonus leveling.

Still even on the last level up there is no opportunity for this either.

If I were to do a clean save is there a console command that would restart the mod as if I just exited the tutorial dungeon?

I dont know about Progress, but you can easily remove P.I. and have a clean save and start afresh, with re-adding P.I. again.

But you have to redefine your character's race definitions and class skills for P.I. to work correctly, i.e. manually.

If you can make Progress to work fine, then it should be fine.

By the way, P.I. does not affect skill progression and level-up at all, so your current problems are totally because of Progress's bad INI settings.

So I think you should not touch P.I. at all and ask Progress folk for a solution.

Regards.

With the advanced character setting though and with luck set to manual configuration isn't there supposed to be some form of PI interface asking me what attributes (what I called stats above) I'd like to raise? the bonus three attributes. That does not seem to be happening.

The Progress settings though are my fault and why my character didn't level. I went back and reloaded previous saves and saw that I had significant changes in attributes from skill usage.

I had the progress settings ilevelupskillcount to 100 meaning I'd need 100 skill level ups to gain one level and hence why there was no leveling. I then changed it back to the default of 10 and suddenly when the next skill read on leveling due to skill increase happened I got the opportunity to sleep/level 5 times. So I don't think that Progress malfunctioned other than it just recalculated what was necessary to level and I got 5 in a row. So that was operator error and I don't think progress is malfunctioning in that regard. Yet, with a previous character using PI I recall getting PI interface after a sleep/level up and this is not happening now. [edit] of course that was with a prior version of PI now that I think about it.

Is it possible that PI is not designed to handle multiple levelings at once - such as if a person gains a level up (with sign at bottom of the arrow) and then doesn't sleep for several levels then after 3-4 does - would PI then give the interface allowing manual adjustment of a few attributes (especially luck)? that is specifically what seems to not be happening. That is supposed to happen right?

When I tried a clean install of PI on the character prior to going through the level ups (meaning I saved without PI then reloaded with PI) then I got a ctd each time on loading the save. If the level ups already happened or a I reverted to a save prior to getting the level sign then I could clean save but I got the message that I first must leave the tutorial dungeon before PI would initialize and I would get the configuration spell. My character is long gone from tutorial dungeon so that didn't help and I seemed unable to redefine my character (hence asking for possible console commands).

So PI does handle the relationship between skills and attributes and it states in the readme for the current version that at level up there would be an opportunity to raise three (plus I set luck development to manual). So if I went to the Progress thread all they (Tejon) are going to say is that progress does not affect level up only skill progression. Seems then that this has more to do with the problem of not getting the PI interface after sleeping/leveling.

Am I understanding this right?

Sorry for any confusion - and thanks much.

PI can handle multiple leveling in a row and you should be able to raise three attributes by just one point each time.

I have done it via cheating so no, it is not P.I.'s fault, but I dont understand what is the problem for you now, but it might be the problem that I have written about in the first page in UPPERCASE form:



Hope it is the culprit and you can fix it as Shikishima suggested.

I dont remember how you can restore the vanilla level-up screen, but he surely knows how.

Cheers.

Well I get the level up notice (the small arrow pointing up near the compass). Then after sleeping I get the vanilla (or at least what I recall as vanilla) level up notice with the generic statements at each incremental level up, but I do not get the menu to increase attributes.

I will test and see if that comes up without PI - maybe that is what is missing.

What do you mean by hood? I read that as a typo and thought you meant HUD - what is hood?

[edit]

Ah ha! I guess when I uninstalled Realistic Leveling I only removed the esp and ini and not the whole BAIN package because it apparently swapped out the level up xml menu with a KCAS version (which only has the generic messages, but not the attribute leveling options) with the vanilla returned I got he option to level only three attributes (and only any of them once). I recall using a purely PI menu when raising attributes at level upm before (maybe previous version?).

However, with luck development even set to fame or attribute related I can still manuall adjust it at level up - what then is the advantage of havng the manual setting?

Is that how that is supposed to work?

thanks much mystery mostly solved.

So, I loaded up PI, and started a save game. I got the "Welcome to PI" notice and then I got two more notices, the gist of which was that I had not completed the starter dungeon (sewers) and thus my characters attributess would not be recalculated.

I'm well into the game, and definitely completed the tutorial. Not running any mods that change or eliminate the tutorial, either.

Did I miss something?

The three attribute raises at level-up session are bonus points for leveling up, and you can spend then on any three attributes, you actually gain attributes gradually in the game and these three bonus points are there to make leveling-up more rewarding act, you can spend one of them on luck or not, your choice, and yes it is working as it should now.

As for hood, yes my mistake as English is not my first language.


can you post the exact sentence so that I can track it down in the code? Thanks.

I think what he is getting at is that for this to work it must be loaded with new character while in the tutorial dungeon.

I discovered this myself when trying to do clean save.

You get a message saying that you decided to go ahead with normal tutorial and that PI will take effect once you exit the tutorial dungeon.

the problem is -if you already exited the dungeon then you don't get the configuration spell to set up PI and no auto set up is initialized either.

So then with LUCK - if I chose to have it configured to progress with attributes or with fame then it will do that and I can still manually raise it at level up?

Seems to make the manual version a bit redundant. small suggestion - with manual you get to raise it twice or if fame or attribute then you cant raise it manually at all. Of course I understand that the best approach is self-control - but these are just suggestions.

thanks btw

Yeah, this. Sorry I didn't make it more clear. I have a game, which I am well into, level 15 or so. I decided to try PI, so I installed it (via OBMM), and loaded up my save game. I got the above bolded messages, and my attributes were not changed. If I get a chance later today, I will write down the exact message I got from PI when I load the save game.

OK, I take a look at this problem, maybe I have changed something in v1.51 that has caused it.