Puzzles in Skyrim Dungeons : V

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:35 am

***EDIT*** I made a large update to the OP and added some ideas for discussion. The old 'OP' is in italics at the bottom of the post.
Also I would like to point out that most of my video links to videos have the correct time in the URL in the video, however sometimes Youtube doesn't work properly so refresh your video if it starts at the beginning. Look at the URL also, it should show the correct time at the end like this "#t=5m45s". Thanks!

With the new information from the Italian magazine kindly translated for us http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1163214-skyrim-italian-coverage-thread-2/, we have been informed that dungeons in Skyrim will have many new puzzles for us to complete when in them.

As far as lore goes many of the puzzle mechanics could work on account of Dwemer technology. Seeing as there are many Dwemer ruins in Skyrim this bodes well for the puzzle lover (like myself). Perhaps somebody who knows better could help cite some lore for us? Seeing which mechanics are possible?

I do know that the Dwemer built robots so that should cover just about every mechanic below if not all of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZTJpVCtZWc:

Games that employ this method can use pressure plates as actuators for timed based events, unlocking methods, traps and combination systems.

one of the most innovative ways to use pressure plates in game puzzles is to make the plate itself reactive. What do I mean? If there is no weight on the plate, it won't stay pressed. Imagine a single room with a pressure plate on one end of the room and a barred door on the other. You go to stand on the pressure plate and the bars in front of the door raise up! Now you can exit! Moving towards the door off of the plate you see the bars return and the pressure plate unpressed. What do you do? You must find a heavy object to put on the pressure plate to keep it pressed.

In puzzle games like Zelda it usually meant using a nearby item to push onto the pressure plate or picking up and carrying that item to the plate. This item is almost never represented in your inventory, and is instead carried with both hands or pushed from somewhere. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1ipF5sIIBE#t=3m32s of a puzzle in Zelda using this pressure plate method (and it also has a nice moderately challenging block puzzle).

Keys (Traditional):

Games that employ keys can invoke the player to memorize passages and areas that they haven't gained access to, requiring them to back trace certain steps and think about what parts of an area they have yet to explore. Useful for longevity of a dungeon and for stimulating the overall memory of a location.

I made a distinguishing difference between arbitrary keys (like singing a special song or having a magical amulet King's Quest style) because in the Elder Scrolls universe there is lock picking for traditional style keys and I didn't want people to feel keys were all lumped together. The way traditional keys have worked in games like Zelda or Goof Troop is that each major area (Temples or Levels in most games) have a set amount of "keys" and sometimes one unique boss key. The boss key you usually got last and it only worked on the boss door. However, the secondary keys were interchangeable and worked on all locked doors in the dungeon. You usually needed to find all of them, with the rare occasion a level or temple would have one extra for a secret room. Also it is important to note that these keys were one time use keys! Even though they had interchangeability once they were used on a door they were removed from your inventory permanently, but the door also remained unlocked permanently.

One way that Elder Scrolls games could make this work in their own style is to use a small amount of abstraction with the key. Instead of a standard door and lock it could be a door with a special shaped hole that needed a "key" you find in a dungeon to fit it. When putting this "key" in the hole, the door opens. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jers_HoggbE#t=15s demonstrating exactly that method.

Keys (Abstract):

Abstract keys can vary from singing a special song in front of a door or waterfall to reveal an entrace or open something. Abstract keys are good for variance and role play.

One of the best uses of abstract keys is the song. Zelda: OoT revolved around musical game play. Sometimes when you were faced with a strange door or a spot that had familiar Glyphs on the wall it (the earmarks of some songs could be found in the forum of runic glyphs on walls like the one eye and the sun rays for the Song of Time), you could play a learned song and the door would open, or on occasion it would reveal something invisible. Also these songs could be used to persuade powerful NPCs to give you information or to affirm your origination (in the case of the Goron King, he heard you play the melody of the royal family and he knew that you were authentic).

I would say the most innovative way this was used is to reveal something invisible or activating an important element in the puzzle dynamic (like filling a room with water). This includes singing the song near a waterfall to reveal a hidden passageway (it would divert the waters to the right and left of the entrance behind the falls. Assuming it would be impossible to get behind the waterfall otherwise). Here is a video showing some of these methods: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izgin4QpUgU#t=5m36s, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPo4I3kW7VA#t=3m24s and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPo4I3kW7VA#t=4m14s (take note of the triforce glyph on the wall, it is an indicator that the royal song might be needed).

Doors or Passageways with Combinations:

A door or a passageway that needs a combination can be more intriguing than a locked door. Sometimes the combination can be hidden in a riddle or given out in clues across an area.

Some of the most interesting dungeons that have employed a combination system have a similar theme, they show you the door, they allow you to try and open it but most attempts will be fruitless (due to the many possible combinations) and they don't give you the full combination until much later in the game! So the intrigue of mystery lasts a long time. I couldn't find any good videos for this option, maybe you can help me out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MoFzUGpz-A#t=6m7s only one I could think of off the top of my head that wasn't your typical number combo.

Riddles:

Riddles are arguably the most versatile option for puzzles. They can be logic puzzles, they can be anthropomorphic, anologous and witty. Riddles can define the one giving them (are they quirky? is the riddle wise? Does it try to make something good look bad and something bad look good?).

Few games I personally have played have given out legitimate riddles so I will give you one of my own, "At birth I was by your side. Whispering in vain I called out to you for definition. At death I remained at your side, forever telling others who you were... tormented now that I cannot change as whence you were alive."

Other games have used a hint system along with their riddles in case the user is totally at a loss for the answer.

Logic riddles can be some of the easier ones to think of and they don't need to be hard. Here is an example, "In my family the females have twice as many sisters as brothers & the males have 5 times as many sisters as brothers. How many siblings total are there?"

Spoiler

Seven (2 x males and 5 x females.)

A riddle in itself can also have its answer in a physical way as well as verbal. For instance: In Lord of the Rings when The Fellowship are at the entrance to the Mines of Moria the doors will not open without the "magic word". The door is inscribed, "The Doors of Durin — Lord of Moria. Speak, friend, and enter." After some deliberation they learn that the magic word is the the Elvish word for friend "mellon". Another example of this sort of riddle in a game is in Zelda:OoT when inside the Dodongo's Cavern you find a riddle, "Giant dead Dodongo... when it sees red, a new way will be open". The answer to this riddle is a physical action (putting bombs on the giant dead Dodongo's eyes, a skull it seems, and they turn red and his mouth opens a new way).

Here are some riddles from the book "The Hobbit" by J.R.R. Tolkien.

What has roots as nobody sees,

Is taller than trees,

Up, up it goes,

And yet never grows?

Spoiler

"Mountain"

Thirty white horses on a red hill,

First they champ,

Then they stamp,

Then they stand still.

Spoiler

"Teeth"

Voiceless it cries,

Wingless flutters,

Toothless bites,

Mouthless mutters.

Spoiler

"Wind"

An eye in a blue face

Saw an eye in a green face.

"That eye is like to this eye"

Said the first eye,

"But in low place,

Not in high place."

"Sun on the daisies."

It cannot be seen, cannot be felt,

Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt.

It lies behind stars and under hills,

And empty holes it fills.

It comes first and follows after,

Ends life, kills laughter.

Spoiler

"Dark"

A box without hinges, key, or lid,

Yet golden treasure inside is hid,

Spoiler

"Eggs"

Alive without breath,

As cold as death;

Never thirsty, ever drinking,

All in mail never clinking.

Spoiler

"Fish"

No-legs lay on one-leg, two-legs sat near on three-legs, four-legs got some.

"Fish on a little table, man at table sitting on a stool, the cat has the bones"

This thing all things devours:

Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;

Gnaws iron, bites steel;

Grinds hard stones to meal;

Slays king, ruins town,

And beats high mountain down.

Spoiler

"Time"

And them the last question, which is not a valid riddle, and is contrary to the riddle game, but however is a riddle, due to the fact it was counted as a riddle by both Gollum and Bilbo.

What have I got in my pockets?

Spoiler

"Ring"

Many authorities discuss whether this is cheating, but agree that since Gollum agreed to guess, and that Bilbo gave him three guesses, that the results have to be accepted.

Time Based Actions:

The most common way this has been implemented in puzzles is through an actuator (lever, button, pressure plate) that can be reused over and over if needed.

For example you might have a door that is locked and you pull a lever that unlocks it, you have 15 seconds to run to the door and open it. Many of the puzzles involving this have some sort of obstacle to maneuver in lieu of just trying to close distance between yourself and the actuator (an example might be jumping on moving blocks, or fighting something between you and the unlocked door or retractable bridge).

These can be useful in simple puzzles where another dynamic could be used to make otherwise ordinary actions more complex. The best games that use time based actions treat it like salt on the puzzle, too much time based elements and the player gets annoyed that he is being forced to complete something. However if there isn't any, simple puzzles can betray a waste of time and render the puzzle not worthy of its application. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n8CwbBLkO0#t=8m55s of something time based.

Movable Blocks:

I would argue that this mechanic has the easiest physical application along with its conception. That is to say they are easy to put in the game and they can offer some of the more (measurably) difficult puzzles.

Most games that have puzzles will use this puzzle method in some way. Moving block puzzles can be a lot of fun, and they are usually two dimensional. There are some that work on a grid system, where you move a block one space at a time anywhere on the grid and try to rearrange them into the correct order http://www.johnrausch.com/SlidingBlockPuzzles/suprcmpo.htm. Other games use the idea that ice is under the block, so moving it in one direction causes it to continue in that direction until it hits something physical. This type of puzzle (the one with ice) is probably the most implemented in video games and can be fun if done properly. Here are a few examples http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xSmfJ22ccM&feature=related, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0UIwW-qqlE, and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A35ENm8N0qo#t=7m20s.

Reactive Targets:

A reactive target might be something that requires the player to shoot at it to activate an event. Sometimes this is a one time operation. An example would be setting an arrow on fire and shooting into a location (defined in such a way that it can only be activated this way) that needs something to be lit with fire (often times a torch).

This method can be useful for getting the player to be aware of their surroundings. You can place activation elements on walls, ceilings, holes and areas the player might need to become aware of.

Imagine walking through a narrow hallway and then entering a large room with high ceilings. There is a barred door in front of you. Looking at your immediate surrounds you don't notice anything, turning around thinking you must need to unlock it from somewhere else you spot an unlit brazier hanging from the ceiling. Taking out an arrow you set the tip on fire and shoot the brazier. As it lights up the barred door unlocks and allows you passage. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crM3wuiIV1Y=#t=3m30s of something similar. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n8CwbBLkO0#t=2m25s

A common Zelda mechanic had the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nld8vGJObfo#t=5m with his sword to activate a time based event. When the event stopped he would need to physically go back and hit the activator if he did not complete all of the objectives in time.

Destructible Environments:

This puzzle mechanic can be employed generically in the sense that as long as they are aware you can destroy the game element they will have the ability to do so in most common cases. I set to distinguish this mechanic from the one below on account of Skryim, some players might like this idea but not the restricted version.

An example might be a rope that you cut with your sword. Or perhaps there is a barrel of gun powder, you must move it to a wall and shoot it with an arrow or mage missile. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W07-wA-abCg#t=4m46s of a generic destructible environment, watch about 15 seconds or so.

Material That Can Only Be Destroyed By Certain Elements:

This puzzle mechanic is actually more common in puzzles than the one mentioned earlier. It usually involves a consistent element in play (like ice over a switch) that can only be broken by another key element (like fire melting the ice).

This can be a very useful mechanic because you can often center your dungeon or puzzle around some common obstacle to the player, building a sense of limited power when completing parts of your dungeon until they finally acquire the right element. This can manifest itself in different ways too, like say you need black powder to blow a wall made out of a distinct material. During your travels you have seen walls like this you cannot get through, but upon finding black powder you are now finally empowered to break them.

Puzzle Breaking Mechanics:

Having mechanics in the game that only allow for one try might appeal to a hardcoe gamer.

However, I have not seen these mechanics in any game personally. And if I were to suspect they'd be in a game it would probably be Myst, but I don't know at all. I thought I would at least put this as an option for people who would like to vote for it.

Static Mechanics Based on Fixed Attributes:

Somebody suggested to have puzzle mechanics based on your attributes so I thought I would add two options. This being an Elder Scrolls game I thought it might have its own spin on a few puzzles. This mechanic basically requires the player to have one of their attributes at a certain level (or even their meta-level).

The way this could work is you could have a combination lock that will not even allow you to try and open it if you INT is below a fixed value (say 50). It could also be used on doors to bar entry to something if your strength isn't high enough, or your willpower. It is basically a sort of check-point where it determines whether or not you can be allowed to do something.

An interesting spin on this might be to make certain puzzles only available to you at low level. The purpose of this could vary, but one that comes to my mind is the possibility to allow the player to gain access to a powerful item of their choice, but at a certain level you can no longer access it. There are probably other ways of implementing this mechanic too.

Dynamic Mechanics Based on Fixed Attributes:

This mechanic is another one for the Elder Scrolls. It would be similar to the one above except that instead of being a "check-point" it would change the puzzle for you based on your attributes. Think of it perhaps as a sort of "puzzle-scaling".

Lets say your INT is low and you are trying to figure out a lock combination, it might just look ordinary. But what if your INT is high? Perhaps you can make out some of the numbers or runes and that will give you a visual aid to solving it.

Or perhaps since you are high level the enemies actually run in fear from you, so you will have an easier time completing puzzles. Things of that nature, feel free to brainstorm and add some ideas!

Environments That Potentially Kill or Harm You:

Another common element in games and often tied to a time based event. This method in a puzzle can be used to punish poor decisions and lack of progress. It can be anything from filling a room with sand or water to unleashing enemies on the player. Some common ones are the closing walls that will crush you and drowning.

To me personally this sounds like it has some very big potential. Some of the best games ever created have most of their game play steeped in puzzles.

Some of the ones I would like to mention are the highly acclaimed Zelda series. Zelda: Ocarina of Time; a quick search on the internet will show you that Zelda OoT has one of the highest meta critic scores of any game in history. One of the reasons why this game was so good is because of the puzzles that were in its dungeons and the creativity behind them. It used simple mechanics that could be compounded upon to create complex puzzles and game play. For those of us who have played and beaten the Master Quest version of OoT can attest that it is one of the most difficult puzzle games (with Zelda mechanics) that you can play. And I personally feel that it is the most difficult game I have ever beaten (the Master Quest version).

I have played an assortment of different RPGs that have puzzle elements in them that I enjoyed. A few that come to mind are Mario RPG, Legend of Legaia 2 (1 probably had them also, but I forget), Final Fantasy 7 and 10 (the others I cannot speak for since I don't remember). I have to mention this specifically because it is a memory from my childhood, but I used to play the SNES game "Goof Troop" which involved a simple puzzle mechanic throughout the entire game. I was probably 9 or 10 and my brother and I played it on co-op and it really challenged us as young kids to solve the puzzles as we progressed through the game and I had a lot of fun with it. It is small, simple mechanics like the one in that game where you kicked an object in a single direction until it hit something (often needing to manuever several items in order to unlock something) that can be engrossing and thought provoking.

Other games employ riddles, and I have thoroughly enjoyed those as well. Who doesn't remember the riddle in Mario RPG where you had to guess a 5 letter word, the most prominent hint being "it is found on the bed of the ocean?". The answer being "PEARL" took me as a young kid (before the days of Google and common internet usage) many many hours to figure out. But when I did I thought I really accomplished something, and it also was a hand to the forehead experience ('Why didn't I think of this sooner?' I thought to myself).

Enough of how I feel about puzzles in dungeons for now. What are your thoughts?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:19 am

Who doesn't remember the riddle in Mario RPG where you had to guess a 6 letter word, the most prominent hint being "it is found on the bed of ocean?". The answer being "PEARL" took me as a young kid many many hours to figure out.

Ill say, especially since the answer only has 5 letters (or is that part of the riddle I dont get?) and there are many other words that could fit that description.

But I do get what you are saying and it would be nice to see some good puzzles and riddles in Skyrim. Those of you who played Baldur's Gate 2 may remember this one,

The poor have it, the rich need it, if both should eat it they would die, what is it?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:08 am

Ill say, especially since the answer only has 5 letters (or is that part of the riddle I dont get?) and there are many other words that could fit that description.

But I do get what you are saying and it would be nice to see some good puzzles and riddles in Skyrim. Those of you who played Baldur's Gate 2 may remember this one,

The poor have it, the rich need it, if both should eat it they would die, what is it?

Oops, that was a typo on my part (or a brain fart, not sure which now). Fixed to 5 letters

Also I updated the poll to add some variety for discussion, sorry to those who have already voted. I am not really very good at making threads that "catch on" or are popular, so I'm still learning

Don't let my wall of text deter you from posting your opinion.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:11 am

Ill say, especially since the answer only has 5 letters (or is that part of the riddle I dont get?) and there are many other words that could fit that description.

But I do get what you are saying and it would be nice to see some good puzzles and riddles in Skyrim. Those of you who played Baldur's Gate 2 may remember this one,

The poor have it, the rich need it, if both should eat it they would die, what is it?

nothing?

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:57 pm

More puzzles, I'm all for it!

But, I won't hold my breath

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:55 am

I don't mind any kind of puzzles which guard alternate avenues, but I would not support puzzles that MUST be solved to continue at all.

An example would be something like a lever puzzle that operates a gate blocking an alternate, easier path through a dungeon. Solve the puzzle and make your life a bit easier. Can't/don't solve it, and you can continue on the regular path through the dungeon. There must be an alternate path to bypass any puzzle.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:14 am

I am in favor of puzzles as long as there is a way around them if you cannot figure them out. What I mean by this is failure to complete a puzzle will require you to take a long path in a dungeon or fight a more powerful enemy,etc. I hate it when I run into a puzzle in a game I cannot solve and I am forced to look up the solution. Keys, while Ocarina of Time was legit, are old and corny.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:22 am

I don't mind any kind of puzzles which guard alternate avenues, but I would not support puzzles that MUST be solved to continue at all.

An example would be something like a lever puzzle that operates a gate blocking an alternate, easier path through a dungeon. Solve the puzzle and make your life a bit easier. Can't/don't solve it, and you can continue on the regular path through the dungeon. There must be an alternate path to bypass any puzzle.

I am in favor of puzzles as long as there is a way around them if you cannot figure them out. What I mean by this is failure to complete a puzzle will require you to take a long path in a dungeon or fight a more powerful enemy,etc. I hate it when I run into a puzzle in a game I cannot solve and I am forced to look up the solution. Keys, while Ocarina of Time was legit, are old and corny.

[cynic] But unsolvable puzzles mean that you have to visit a website or buy a guide, which means that more revenue is generated! :evil:

[/cynic]

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:08 am

Puzzles? Hell to the yes.

Any type of puzzle is fine with me. However, I've always disliked the classic "unlock point A by pressing the lever in point B".

I'd like to see Bethesda incorporate the lore (books found in the dungeons, journals, etc) and mix them with a bit of problem solving to make unique puzzles.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:20 am

Puzzles? Hell to the yes.

Any type of puzzle is fine with me. However, I've always disliked the classic "unlock point A by pressing the lever in point B".

I'd like to see Bethesda incorporate the lore (books found in the dungeons, journals, etc) and mix them with a bit of problem solving to make unique puzzles.

Erm, not sure how much the reading aspect will come into play. That was a major complaint from MW, that there was too much reading that needed to be done. OB had less reading. Maybe there will be a happy medium now. (note: I don't have the stats on the numbers of written works)

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:09 am

I think character intelligence should be a factor (if an intelleigence attribute is present). Higher intelligence makes the puzzle less difficult.
of course, the player is the one figuring it out anyway. So having a stupid character makes it harder for me as the player to figutre it out.
and if the player is stupid, then yes, we need an alternative path to bypass the puzzle. So maybe strength or agility would play a part.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:21 pm

I think character intelligence should be a factor (if an intelleigence attribute is present). Higher intelligence makes the puzzle less difficult.
of course, the player is the one figuring it out anyway. So having a stupid character makes it harder for me as the player to figutre it out.
and if the player is stupid, then yes, we need an alternative path to bypass the puzzle. So maybe strength or agility would play a part.

Good idea, I will add this to the options.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:27 am

This will be something I'm looking very much forward to.

I really liked that Bethesda took this initiative!

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:55 am

TES hit's the Legend of Zelda...

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:13 am

Most of these mean traps, but yes I would love puzzles.

If you have a high enough intelligence you could read the glyphs or runes on the walls that give accurate instructions on how to do the puzzle.

Like say theres some kind of old dwemer scale that you have to add weights too and maybe their'd be a pictograph of how much each weight weighs and shows a few clues and you use general logic to solve them. And once you have the correct weight one of the scale holders goes down and you hear a pulley or wench of a chain to signify you just used the correct weight to open the sliding wall just enough to crawl though. If you put the wrong weight the wall will be to low or to high to get through or it just completely covers the entrance to the chest of gold.

Oh yeah.....

Also a timed puzzle that you must do underwater by fixing the right keys into the right doors while a room is slowly filling with water. You have to let the water reach to its height to reach some of the higher key holes too. All about speed and timing and memory.

Also how bout you come to a chest but when you open it you find a note among other odd valuable objects. The note says you have to arrange them in their right place for you to take them. If you do not arrange them correctly the chest will explode from some kind of mechanism or spell and desroy the loot and do high damage and aybe some poison damage too you. -It would be like a riddle to see which one goes in which order.

Also the good old which vile contains the poison and which contains the valuable potion of fire walking. You are given a note in the chest to figure out which one is the potion you need. All are various poisons, you could either just drink and guess them all and hope not to die or use logic to find the correct one to cross the lava or whatever.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:30 pm

I wouldn't mind seeing riddles. It would be a nice nod to the older TES games like Arena which I remember had a lot of them, some of them very vague.
Make them a tad easier perhaps, so to avoid people spamming the forums asking for the answers.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:35 am

Also a timed puzzle that you must do underwater by fixing the right keys into the right doors while a room is slowly filling with water. You have to let the water reach to its height to reach some of the higher key holes too. All about speed and timing and memory.

That is a good idea, I will add it to the options under "Environments that potentially kill or harm you (directly relevant to your performance with the puzzle)"

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:17 pm

I [censored] love puzzles. That said, puzzles need to be kind of obvious in order to avoid pissing people off (look at DA:O for what not to do).

There can be some basic things like gather the four magical stones and put them in correct order to open the door. The four magical stones can be carried by four named creatures located in different rooms, and some lootable container can give you a clue as to what order they go in. For example, if the stones were red, blue, green, and brown, the clue could be "Fire begins everything, water quenches fire, grass thrives from water, and the earth is made rich by the grass". This is pretty basic stuff, and not really a tough puzzle, but a good reason to explore the dungeon, and a way to offer puzzles that a "forced", but really easy to solve.

Another could be a blocked passage that opens only to a certain type of spell or item. You could pick up clues in the dungeon about what kind of thing it is that opens the passage. This kind would be ideal for optional rooms in the dungeon, and the clues can be cryptic enough to require a good deal of thought.

I like the thought of riddles, like in KOTOR or Baldur's Gate. I remember one that was "I have the same number of brothers as sisters, but my brothers have twice as many sisters as brothers. I'm female. How many children do my mother have?" from ToB. It's a pretty simple logic riddle, but it breaks up the monotony a bit. Also a good way to block off some loot, or a couple rooms of a dungeon (in ToB, you were required to solve it to continue, but you could brute force the answer, and the dungeon itself was optional).

I'd love to see some the make use of the environment by requiring to to shoot and arrow or use telekinesis to activate a switch beyond a big gap to open up a half a bridge. The other half can be lowered by exploring the dungeon more thoroughly, and finding a weight attached to a rope. You can cut the rope to lower the other half of the bridge down. Since the weight and rope would be at a higher point, this adds in an element of y-axis exploration. Of course, you could the levitate yourself across the gap if you had that power.

Seriously, puzzles are fun. I hope there are some optional puzzles that are randomly generated. Those would probably be very simple, but interesting. Another nice thing would be if they created a "master list" of many many riddles and implemented them randomly into optional areas of dungeon.

tl;dr: YES PLEASE

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:25 pm

I like all of these ideas. I would like some dungeons that either will not allow access to a certain part or will seriously endanger your life unless you can figure out the puzzle. I was working on a puzzle like that in Oblivion. It was a riddle that changed based on your race. It required either knowledge about the lore of other races or you could go by clues in the text. If you chose the correct person to save you got a key, but if you chose the wrong person the room filled with gas, killing you all.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:07 pm

I like the thought of riddles, like in KOTOR or Baldur's Gate. I remember one that was "I have the same number of brothers as sisters, but my brothers have twice as many sisters as brothers. I'm female. How many children do my mother have?" from ToB. It's a pretty simple logic riddle, but it breaks up the monotony a bit. Also a good way to block off some loot, or a couple rooms of a dungeon (in ToB, you were required to solve it to continue, but you could brute force the answer, and the dungeon itself was optional).

Logic puzzles like this are great. If certain items are of high value perhaps the logic puzzle could be very hard. But overall even simple ones like the one you mentioned can really help bring different and refreshing change of pace when dungeon crawling or fighting.

There will be a certain group of people who might look up the answers online eventually, but I know personally I would avoid doing this at all costs. I really like figuring riddles and things out for myself, even if it takes days, months or years.

Many of the puzzles in Final Fantasy 10 (when Yuna would go into a temple and you had to complete a large puzzle to receive a new summon) were not overly complex, like you mentioned, but difficult enough that it took time. One of the fun things about it really was that the environment really theatrically contributed to the puzzle itself. The mechanics were simple, but when you actually did something like put a magic orb in a socket it would light up those lines on the walls and you had to use your thinking ability to constructively make progress. It was especially more fun when you knew that there were extra secrets you could find (I believe with the orange or pinkish orb?). That had me always looking at where that secret was, not just completing the primary part of the puzzle.

Multiple possibilities would be great, or multiple uses of something like the orbs in FF10.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:52 am

I LOVE PUZZLES. Portal and the Zelda Games have the right difficulty for my puzzles.

I played the demo for Myst V, got stuck straight away, looked it up on the internet and I was then using pen and paper to decode an alphabet by using these corresponding scratches on the inside and outside of a building when I could only look on the inside of the building through a window on the other side.

...That's stretching my puzzle muscles too much.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:49 am

I got a riddle, a bit like the sphinx/bridge troll encounter, say a frost giant or some kind of odd bandit says you cannot pass this bridge/whatever unless you answer him this riddle. If you guess the answer you can go freely, but if you don't he kills/attempts to steal your stuff.

Also a riddle. What creature walks on 3 legs and has 5 tongues?

Spoiler

The man is a weathered traveler, who travels with a walking stick and is fluent in 5 languages.

Sorry for the multiple editing :shrug:

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:06 am

I think the puzzles would make the dungeons more interesting and individual, aswell as makeing them more rewarding. Would like to see some dwemer puzzles.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:13 am

I said no to puzzle breaking mechanics because people are just going to save before they do a potentially puzzle breaking... puzzle and load it if they fail. Makes more sense to just leave it out

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:58 am

So basically we're talking Uncharted: Drake's Dungeon Crawling?