The difference from a slow rocking to a faster rocking it not very big and the transition takes a long time (the same as the weather transition, usually 1 game hour), therefore you may not have noticed.

At the Anvil area, the typical wind speeds are:
Slow wind for weathers: Clear, Fog, Overcast and Rain
Medium wind for weather: Cloudy
Fast wind for weather: Thunderstorm

The faster rocking is only noticeable under Thunderstorm weather (as in the video).

Would it be possible to add a check that would prevent upside down boats from rocking?
If for example a boat is outside of water turned upside down?
Would it be possible that the boat is rocking only if it's getangle x and y are in specific interval?

Sure.
When scanning the surroundings for boats, the script could ignore any whose X and Y angles are not initially zero.
Also, it could also ignore the boats that are not at water level.
Or, even, the ones that are moving.

I will add that in the next version.

Great! Thanks!

Great work you're doing here, QQuix! I tried to create rocking boats some time ago too, with simple object animation. Did not really look good, but your boats rock

Version 2 of "Rock, rock, rock your boat" is out.
Now named "Rock, rock, rock your ship"

Yes!
While working on my building placement sub-project for The Evolving Society, I finally figured out the two remaining pieces of math I needed to rock the multi-object ships in vanilla game.

SkyRanger-1 had already provided me with the math to calculate the XYZ positions of objects on an inclined plane (e.g. positioning a crate on an inclined ship deck). I still needed the math to calculate the objects angles, so, after a lot of trial and error I could figure out the way to calculate the angles, provided the original object has only a non-zero Z-angle. I still need math help to tilt an object that has, originally, non-zero X or Y angles (like a barrel lying on its side).

I also had a lot of fun his past week, reinventing the mathematical wheel to determine if a certain XYZ point in space is within a given 'boxed' volume. I.e, if an object is inside another object 'box'. I.e, if a given crate is on the ship's deck or on a nearby dock.

With the proper math, rocking the ships became a piece of cake. Just tuning the algorithm to get a natural back and forth movement. It turned out quite good, if I may say so.

And, mr_siika, your posting here reminded me of your Better Ports mod, so I rechecked it and included a way to detect your cogs and idle fishing boats and rocking them too.

And, considering that this may have some public interest, I released it as http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29649, along as being part of my 'Conceptuals' series. (Weee!, my first public mod in almost two years!!)
I won't open a separated WIP thread, thou, so comments and suggestions go here, as before.

Hope the immersion oriented players like it.

Sounds good, keep it up!

Wow, thats awesome. Seeing those ships rock gives the docks a lot more life. Slight bug tho, part of the Sea Tub Carabella ship doesn't rock. the deck, and main cabin are stationary while the rest rocks fine. I went inside to do some of the dunbarrow questing and I had a ctd. when i loaded my game back up and came out, 2 of the rowboats are now pointing at a 60ish degree angle out of water.

Thank you QQuix :foodndrink:

Thanks for the report.

I did reproduce the Carabella bug. It seems the script is not detecting all the pieces of the ship when it scans the area.
This happens if you first enter the docks area by the Anvil Dock Gate, and the Carabella is further down the docks. It does not happen if you first enter the area from the Anvil Castle Gate and the Carabella is closer to the player.

A quick investigation gave me the impression that the game does not load all the objects at once. Specially the farthest ones.
This will require a deeper investigation, but, a temporary workaround is to reload a save game taken without the mod and enter the anvil docks thru the Castle Gate.

I cant reproduce the CTD and the rowboat angle, thou. Would you mind trying to repeat your steps and see if it happens all the time?

This could sound blunt, but I think that good alternative solution would be to merge all the parts to one single mesh.

I don't know the parts, but let's say that for example ship is consisting of hull, cabin and hoist. 3 CS objects with 3 meshes.
Now single mesh could be created with those 3 parts merged and that single mesh would be attached to hull object in the CS, while for the other two CS object dummy meshes could be set (so that we don't have double meshes and that we don't have to delete/disable anything in the CS.

It would simplify your work and there wouldn't be any conflicts.

Vanilla ships are composed of five meshes: hull, deck, cabin, mast and rivets. But there are more than one of most and the game combines them to get different results.
Creating a few combinations of those meshes might be a workaround to simplity the handling of the original ships, but there could be additional 5-mesh vanilla ships added by other mods. And mr_siika's cog is also multi-mesh, including some lights. And there is a varied number of crates and barrels on each ship, that must rock with the ship.

Anyway, I needed the math to keep doors with the buildings when placing them in The Evolving Society mod. And the doors cannot be merged into the buildings, as they must remain a door object to be activated.
With the math at hand, rocking the multi mesh ship is not a problem anymore.

- - - - - -

Good and bad news about the bug:
Good news is that I've found the cause.
Bad news is that it is a bug with the GetFirst-NextRef functions. I will report the problem to the OBSE team and, meanwhile, figure out a workaround for the mod (a day or two)

For the technically inclined, the problem is that the GetFirst-NextRef functions with a depth of 1 are supposed to return the objects in the 9 cells around the player in a pattern like this:
- - - - -
- x x x -
- x P x -
- x x x -
- - - - -
Instead, they are returning the objects in cells as in this pattern:
- - - - -
x x x - -
x x P - -
x x x - -
- - - - -


It just happens that when you enter the docks by the Dock Gate, the Clarabella is in the cell SE of the player, just one of the cells that are supposed to be covered, and are not.
This is not a new bug, as it also happens in the previous version of OBSE. I am surprised nobody noticed it before. Or, considering that nobody else complained, maybe it only happens to some players.

I uploaded a new version (2.1).

The Carabella scenario is fixed.
To fix the Carabella for those that may have it partially tilted, I added a start/stop function that will fix the Carabella and, also, will support the unconceivable event that you might want to remove the mod. lol

Also added a crisis recovery procedure, in case you removed the mod without first repositioning the ships and got stuck with tilted ships for the rest of your life.

This is the full description I added to the readme:

===IMPORTANT===
If you remove this mod, ships will remain in their last position forever.
To avoid this, before removing the mod, click on the barrel named "Start/stop ship movements". This will stop the movement and place all controlled ships and boats in the area back in their original vertical position. As the name implies, click again to resume movements. The barrels may be found in:
- Anvil dock: by the lamp post close to the rowboats
- IC Waterfront: at the very end of the small dock near the central tower.
They are easy to identify: they are half size barrels on top of a small crate.

But if you did remove the mod without taking the above steps, don't despair. Reinstall the mod and click on those small crates under the barrel. They are named "Force reset ships to their standard game position". These crates are hardcoded to reposition the following ships to their vanilla game positions:
- IC Waterfront: the pirate ship and The Bloated Float.
- Anvil docks: the rowboat and the two original ships.
- Anvil docks: the cog, the three fishing boats and the rowboat from mr_siika's Better Ports mod.
- Anvil docks: the five rowboats added by this mod.
Any other ships added by some mod to these areas will not be repositioned. For them, the solution is reinstall their mod or reset their angles via console (setangle X 0 and setangle Y 0 )

Actually it is consistant with how Oblivion handles the normal, visual, 5x5 loaded cell grids too (or larger depending on your uGridsToLoad setting). The center of this grid (be it 5x5, 3x3 or whatever) only seems to be updated when you reach the center of the cell (approx) or if you were teleported into the current cell from an unrelated location (e.g. not a load door or anything). I'm guessing OBSE inherits or suffers from this behaviour without much possibility of a fix. :shrug:

I've noticed that the outer edge of the loaded cell grid is kind of fuzzy, but I've never tried to figure it out as you did.

But I think this problem is not related to the loaded cells, as GetFNref is not returning objects that are obviously loaded.

Example:
I stand at the very edge of a cell facing east.
There is an object right in front of me, but on the next cell.
The 3x3 scan does not return it (but it returns objects two cells behind me, where I've never been).
I go one step ahead, crossing the cell boundary and the scan returns the object (and everything else on that cell, of course, as well as everything in the cells to the north and to the south).
I walk one step back, crossing the cell boundary again, and the scan, again, does not return anything on that cell (although everything is obviously loaded).

Besides, I also found that this bug only happens South of the Equator. Meaning, when the player Y position is negative.

My guess it is just a little arithmetic mistake when converting the object's XY positions to cell grid coordinates to determine if its cell is part of the requested ones.
This being the case, I have no idea if this selection is done by OBSE or it gets already sorted out from the game engine, in which case I agree that it may be hard to fix.

Anyway, I extended the range of that scan and added the start/stop function, which re-scans the area (while the player is by the scripted object at the center of the area), fixing any problem that may have been cause by the first scan.

Looks like this would of been a better place to pose my question...

The initial idea was a conceptual work to be used/adapted/improved by other modders, so I made it as portable as I could.

In a nutshell, what you need to do to add it to your mod is:
- Copy the scripts to your mod (two object scripts and four user functions)
- Create a new object to be placed in the world. I used a barrel, as it fits well in a dock area.
- Attach the proper script to the object (aaqqrbRockBoatSCRIPT)
- Drop one copy of this object in each area with ships you want to rock

This takes care of the basics. Now the adaptation, if needed:
The scripts will locate the BloatedFloat01 and RowBoat01 vanilla objects and "middleboatidle01" and "cogHull01" nifs from mr_siika's Better Ports.
If you have other kinds of ships, add their main piece to the zzFindBoats function. Once the main piece is detected, everything on it is detected automatically, so you don't have to worry about them.

Now the bad news (and hard part):
The problem is that the mod moves objects in the game and the player may remove the mod at any time, leaving tilted ships everywhere.
What I did was to create a second object that has, hardcoded, all the XYZ positions and angles of all known ships in the areas I placed the first object, Anvil and Waterfront, in my case. So, if things go bad, the player can always reinstall the mod, click on those two objects and all the known ships will be vertical again.
If you want to have a fall back function like this, you have to copy paste into a similar script, all six values from each object that may have been moved while the mod was running.

I probably forgot a few details, but this is about it.

New version works great, Carabella rocks and the reset worked great. 2 rowboats overlap each other tho, in the corner by the same dock as the Carabella. Is it possible to change NPC vertical coords? I noticed when one walks onto a rocking ship, depending on how much rocking is occurring they appear to float when the ship dips down. Also the small pond by BattleHorn castle has a rowboat in it, I noticed on the dock there is one of the small barrels with the Start/Stop, but it doesn't do anything to the rowboat. not sure what its there for.

I appreciate your detailed instructions Qquix. I should be able to stumble through most of it. I will no doubt give it a try as it will be an annoyance to see some ships bobbing in the water and others static.

Thanks again!

Rowboat - For me, the rowboats don't overlap. I added an aerial view to the Nexus page, showing how it is supposed to be. Could you have a mod that changes the rowboat scale, by any chance? Or maybe one that adds another one to the area?

NPCs - I am afraid not. The way the game engine works with statics, only the visual part of the mesh moves. The collision part stays put. The PC/NPCs stand on the collision, so they either appear to be in the air (when the visual floor goes down) or sinking in the floor (when it goes up). I tried moving the NPCs along, but, then, as the collision stays in the same place, the game considers that the NPC is in the air and switches to the falling animation. Besides, the detection algorithm is kind of heavy on the CPU. I use it only once, when the mod is first loaded and I'd rather not use it all the time to detect NPCs going in and out.

BattleHorn - I am not familiar with it, but I kind of remember it is nearby. Any of the selected ships and boats within three cells distance from the Start/Stop barrel at the Anvil dock should start and stop rocking as you click the barrel. If the BattleHorn boat is farther than, say, 10-12,000 units from the barrel, then it is not affected.


Good luck, and have fun!

why don't you just duplicate the references and delete the originals? everything would reset if you disable your mod...



this can easily be solved: change the collision in the nif to animated and it will move. take a look at the oblivion elevators to see how it is done.

i also did that for my sailing mod and it works perfectly for doors, containers and furniture too...

so, what math are you looking for? sorry, i did not read all the posts... as far as i understand you need to move object in 3-dimensional spaces? should be no problem with trigonometry... if you explained it somewhere please link me there. maybe i'm thinking about the very same thing. i want to rock moving ships... this is fun.

I suppose. I've never thought of that. It certainly should work. At least for the statics.
Hmmm . . . But there are doors connecting to the ships interiors. And the interiors are related with vanilla quests. I could replace the doors and link them to the interiors, but I am not sure I would not break something in the game.



Yes, I know.
I've been using the ARGate01 as a flying platform for almost two years and it does not have the problem. I mentioned it to JDFan a few months ago and he looked into the mesh and figured it out. I must mention that I have no modeling knowledge (although I can enter nifscope and do thing following very detailed instructions. lol).



The only piece of math that I still would like to have is how to calculate the angles of an objects so it keeps the same orientation with a moving 'anchor'.
I have the math to position and angle any object on the deck, relative to the ship, as the ship moves and tilts along any axis (this is used in this mod). But only if said objects are, originally, at zero X and Y angles.
If an object is initially tilted in either X or Y angles, I need the math to recalculate its angles, so they stay in the same orientation relative to the ship, as the ship rocks.
Easier to explain with an example: I can make a stand up barrel stay (visually) in the same spot on the deck, but I don't have the math if the barrel is initially on its side. I can still position it at the right spot, but not angle it correctly. Fortunately there are not many of those.

Rocking a moving ship should be no different that rocking a static one. I developed a function to position an object according to the ship present position and orientation. It really does not matter if the 'anchor' object (I use the hull as the anchor) is in the same place as in the previous frame or not.
So you only have to deal with moving and tilting the hull. Everything else will follow along.

Feel free to use anything from my mod, that you still don't have.
You may have to tweak the rocking algorithm as, I suppose, moving ships will rock more back and forth than sideways.

It would be cool if moving ships banked to the sides as they make curves in the water.

I considered doing that on my Sail Away mod, but I won't go back to that project any time soon.

And, since you are here, congratulations for you sailing mod release. Looks cool.

if a script refers specifically to the ref of an object this would break something. but this is very very unlikely... doors are persistant. if you replace the door and keep the name it's fine.

i can give you detailed instructions if you like.

so you angle objects with different z angles? x and y should work the same way. afaik setangle uses the world axis unlike the cs. just add the original angle to the angle of the ship?

thank you, i will do so...

yes. this would be cool...

When I wrote about the doors, I was thinking about doing it dynamically. Only later I realized you were talking about doing it in the CS. Replacing the vanilla ships and doors in the CS should work fine, as you said.
I think the delete-replace trick will be useful in the future, but in this particular mod I want it to be generic and rock any ship that may be around. Like if the player has Better Ports, its ships would rock too (it would be silly if only some ships rocked). I am still restricted to a few predetermined ships meshes, thou, but this list could easily be expanded.

Thinking about it, I suppose the player may go to Anvil with your ships. When I finish my current project I will see if I can rock your ships while in Anvil. That would be fun.

Thinking again, I will develop a single-ship rocking script, so modders that have ships, may just drop a scripted barrel on the deck and the ship will rock. Would you be interested in such a resource?



Nope. In game it is the same weird angle system as the CS, where some rotation axis move with the object. IIRC, the X axis always remain east-west, the Z axis always follow the object and the Y axis is somewhere in between.
Example: if the XYZ ship angles are 0-0-0 and I have a sideways barrel on the deck (X angle = 90) and I rotate the ship's Z angle, what rotates in the object is not the Z angle, but the Y angle.



I have the following early notes from JDFan and ..::sinHHHans::.., but I've never tried them (I mostly do conceptual work and always find some vanilla object to work with).
Is your procedure much different from theirs? (not that I understand them, of course)

this would be wise, yes.

i would like to implement your code in my ship script. an extra script would cause much more cpu load, i think. and some of the work must be done by my script anyway. (angle to ship, distance to ship, setpos, etc...)

ouch! but... if the x axis really remains... you can always use the ship's x for the object's x? the x axis remains if you change z?? could you find out how it behaves exactly, so i can ask someone about the math...

i use sinHHHans' approach, but would explain it less confusing...