Maybe someone else already thought of this, but it just thought of it. Quest markers (or something similar) have to be in. Why you may ask? Because according to the GI article, quests will be made specifically for every player. It will search for a cave you haven't explored yet, and place the goal of the quest in that cave. However, because every quest will be different because of that, the voice-actors can't tell you where to go. My cave could be 1 mile north near a forest, but someone elses 2 miles south, near a bridge. Because of this, somehow they have to mark on your map where to go...

What do you guys think?

There are ways around this. For instance, the NPC could hand you a note detailing how to get to the particular dungeon, or they could give a small map with the location marked, or something like that.

However, although I'm not too fond of it, I'd guess that the quest marker is almost certainly in just to make the game accessible to more players.

Why can't the NPC giving you the quest just say 1 mile north near Ice wood, but someone elses 2 miles south, near a Frostbridge only not with generic names

Now I'm only using Morrowind because it's the only example I can think of right now, im not using it because I'm bashing on Oblivion, Morrowind functioned perfectly wll with no Quest markers, they just had signposts and NPC's who gave you directions when quizzed on the destination

I'm sure quest markers are in. I hope there's an option to turn it off though.

I was curious how this would work with voice acting. Like, these quests where other people can take over if the first quest giver is dead. Would they record the quest a few extra times?

Of course they're in. Bethesda thinks that without quest markers and fast travel anywhere, your tiny little minds will become frustrated. They're just helping you out.

I'm gonna copy what I said in a previous thread:

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This thread isn't really about quest markes, but what the heck.
You're saying that quest markers HAVE to be in, because directions JUST CAN'T be done by voice actors.

??????? :facepalm:

I know right, because having an NPC in a quest say a line like "I think the cavern is east of here, near the mountains" will EXPLODE YOUR COMPUTER AND WILL JUST NOT WORK!?

Seriously, it seems people are way too close-minded here.
Ever thought of the possibility that an RPG actually should let the player think a bit for himself/herself, both in regards of exploring and doing quests?
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Now I'm gonna a elaborate that.
Directions can be done by voice actors......... (lots of dots to express my "sigh" feeling)
If the cave you want to get to is 2 kilometer north, but there is also another cave 1 kilometer north; you can say: "The cave is located north of here. Take the road northwest of here, follow it until you see a big dead tree. When you've seen that, there should be a cave to the right. This is not the cave you're looking for though. Continue following the road until you see an opening in the mountains to the right. There will be two big rocks, standing as pillars, near the opening. The cave is further in the opening."

Or you could say: "Go north from here. Continue until you see an opening in the mountains to the right. The cave is further in that opening."

Do you honestly thing developers are so incompetent that they can't explain how a place looks like and how you can roughly get to that place?

Quest markers are easy to circumvent. If you don't make the quest you are doing active there won't be a marker pointing to it.

Early in the game you can finish a marked quest then don't make any quests active. This way there is no quest marker to make things too easy. I do this in all of these games. Hopefully this will work in Skyrim too.

I will bet that there will be quest markers since there are people who use them to make quick gaming sessions feel productive.

Gee, thanks Bethesda!

8 Words: "Here, let me mark it on your map."

This. I don't care either way though...I just want to play.

Cut the know-it-all tone, because there are a lot of holes in your argument.

Audio takes up space like anything else, and they can't have too much of it or else they'd need multiple disks which most people aren't too fond of, especially for a game like this.

Not to mention, it costs money to pay a voice actor to do more work.

Let's say someone who needs help runs up to you, tells you that they're cousin is lost in a dungeon or something, and then chooses between .. let's say 10 dungeons near the city to give you directions to. That's 10 extra bits of dialogue that wouldn't need to be in the game if they had a quest marker. But wait! Wouldn't it be a bit silly if whenever you were in a town the person who ran up to you looking for help had the same voice? So, let's say there are 3 different actors who could possibly give directions to the same 10 dungeons around each of the 5 main cities. This puts is up to 150+ lines of dialogue that could be omitted in place of a quest marker, or a note, or something that takes up less space on the game disk and costs less money to produce.

It's not that it's impossible by any means to have recorded voice dialogue, it's just unreasonable and I'd rather the dev team spend their time and money doing more important things.

Daggerfall had no problem with randomly generated quests.

You got a note or a map and an entry into your journal.

That being said, both Daggerfall and Morrowind suffered from one major annoyance factor. The sheer size of the world compared to the place you are looking for. And the sheer size of a dungeon compared to the item you need.

I remember that little Dwemer cube that friendly fellow at the Balmora fighters guild wanted me to get.
Took me ages

Or an item quest in Daggerfall, argh argh, where you had a dungeon the size of a city and an item as big as a small item, and no clue where to look.

So I think some sort of marker would be helpful. Doesnt have to be oblivion style 'point right at it' thingy, could just point to the general direction. Like an area in a little circle for outdoors, and a room for indoors.
Oh, and if NPC's move around a lot I would really like some way of tracking them down too.

It doesn't matter to me if Quest Markers are in or not because I'll still be able to find it. Either by exploring or using the UESP.

I'm loving every word of this. Snipping would be a crime.
@JS: I don't believe those extra lines, either written or spoken, will make the development go kaputt.

By the way, I can't believe there's only a handful of people that actually just followed the given isntructions and did find the dwemer cube! If you cared to use a good number of brain cells, it paid off.

GI article mentioned the HUD-less gameplay. I believe that the HUD would be toogleable, so I don't worry about Compass Markers being in or not.

This.
It's not frustratingly hands-holdingly easy, and it still gives you the location. Should work for everyone.

A perfect line. Give you the location and still no need for quest markers. If, however, they make the NPCs related to a quest travell from town to town I agree that it could be a quest marker on that NPC.

Or they could just say "Give me your map. The cave is in this area" and now there's a circle in your map

It doesn't have to be a specific point.

The problem with the system you described is the radiant story creates new quests on the fly, any NPC could be giving you directions to any nearby cave. It would require way too much voice acting.

I think that the game wont generate new dungeons specially for each new quest, but rather that there will be "empty shell" dungeons to put random quests inside. Therefore, as NPC may have directions voice recorded for scripted quest, there may be directions recorded for random quests dungeons.
Or, as some mentionned, you may find those random quests marked on paper in local guild houses : you pick the paper and activate the quest (may be after asking the guild house master if he is ok). The Witcher has such quests started like this.
Or, again, as already proposed, the NPC may tell you : "I'll write the direction here in your journal", if he is not able to give you the precise point on your map. With it, you can have litteral directions given without having to record hours of voice acting.

No probably not but it still does take up a lot more disk space and cost more money, which are always things to factor in.

Plus, a lot of the times it depends on just how far along in the development you are before recording voice acting. Morrowind didn't have any problems because if they moved a dungeon or something they could easily update any text that referenced it. But when you make even the slightest change to the world when they have already recorded vocal instructions it could mess some things up.

A big part of what is wrong with hlvr's post is he assumes OP is a complete idiot. I don't think anyone truly thinks it's impossible to record voiced directions.. that's absurd. Instead I think the OP was suggesting that it wouldn't be very feasible.. or at least would be a hell of a lot easier to just have a quest marker. And it's a pretty solid point.

1) If you think it's an know-it-all tone to state that it's POSSIBLE to give directions, to a person who says it's JUST NOT POSSIBLE. Then I think you need to rethink your sentence "Cut the know-it-all tone, because there are a lot of holes in your argument." and re-read word for word to actually see what I'm saying.

2) That it costs more money is a definite yes and a good point. But you're exaggerating a lot, and missing a lot of points. Why?
A) Far from every single dungeon in the game is quest-related.
B] Having same voice actors is entirely different question. Don't switch the subjects, unless you're implying that having one more line to every direction THAT'S ACTUALLY IN THE GAME NO MATTER WHAT, ruins the whole voice acting budget. If you didn't know, there are some directions in the game even if there are quest markers. They just need a few more words to specificy it a bit more. It's definitely not unreasonable.
C) You need to read before you post. I'm saying that it's POSSIBLE that directions are given by voice actors. I personally also think there can be notes and such too. Sometimes, to spice things up, I'd also like NPCs to say "I know where it is, let me mark it on your map".
D) If you state that exploring and thinking some on your own in an RPG is not important, I suggest you think again. I'm not saying you're wrong, just saying that I believe there are many many other people that disagree with you about that.

I didn't interpret his tone as such. I've read a lot of threads about this and I can't say he says anything wrong. It just gets so frustrating for people who want a challenge and a game that requires you to think. Myself, I don't think all directions have to be spoken. It seems you've played Morrowind. Didn't you think when you first loaded OB: "Hey, what's that thing doing there, it's ruining everything. I can think, you stupid arrow. NOOOOOOO, where's the fun in this?" And those message boxes. Dear me. I should "this", I should "that". It made you feel like this game was intended to be played by a coconut.

the most [censored] thing they did in oblivion damn.

I hope they at least voice the direction for the people who want to actually explore and have fun instead of using stone age GPS :banghead:

I really don't think that's what the OP is saying.


Have you read the article? We're talking about randomly generated quests here. Maybe not every dungeon but most all dungeons around any given town have a chance to be chose for a randomly generated quest. Do you follow? That's a big reason why it doesn't seem feasible. Sure, for the quests that are actually fully written out voiced directions wouldn't be too much of a hassle at all, but voicing


Not at all. Again, we're talking about the RANDOMLY GENERATED quests here and just how it would not be feasible to have voice acting prepared for any of the possibilities in the random nature of the quest. That's what this thread is about more or less. Different voice actors voicing the same lines is completely relevant.

I would prefer if there weren't quest markers or fast travel. Hell, I'd prefer if there wasn't voice acting. I'm just talking about what's likely.