I thought the High School Musical movies were made by Bergman's ghost? Or did he do Rock Balboa?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090859/, actually.

I'm starting to feel sorry for starting this. What started as a question of CHIM has turned into puddles of goo. Funny goo though. At that makes me happy. Hopefully this thread will stay alive until the joke becomes old, even for the posters

That was the impression I was under as well.
It's already too old for my tastes, and I'm not one who likes 'em young.

It's still better than the same dried out, overcooked CHIM discussions. We've talked CHIM to death. Let's talk about the Alessian Order or Morihaus for once.

oooh, a discussion about the Alessian Order would be fantastic. Not much to go on though, I'm afraid.

a Dreugh from the last Kalpa CHIMmed a dragonbreak. Vivec.

Well we know a few important things. They were undoubtedly cruel, ruling Colovia and probably a bit of Nibenay along with parts of Skyrim with a theocratic iron fist. They were distrustful either of magic or non-Alessian magic users. They probably continued pogroms against elves. They edited Akatosh. What I find to be most interesting though is that they were defeated by other men and not a coalition of elves.

What I'd like to know is which parties were involved in the defeat of the Alessians. Besides Hoag Merkiller, the Direnni played a crucial role in their defeat if I remember. That alliance in and of itself is surprising, especially considering that the High King's moniker and again the fact that he wasn't fighting elves but men who hated the elves just as much. There had to be resistance in Colovia considering the brutality of the Alessians. It's a shame more hasn't been written about it.

Other way round, actually. Their power base was in Nibenay, while the Colovian estates were ardently independant.

Ah. I had thought that the Alessian Order was anchored in Colovia. It was Reman who unified the Colovian estates, right? Remanada seems to imply that before Reman's the Colovian estates were all independent, yet that wasn't the case forever. I had thought that the fall of the Alessian Order caused Colovia to break up into individual city states.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/rislav-righteous features independent Colovia as far back as the mid-to-late 400s, and the Alessians as less than thrilled with this state of affairs.

CHIM is basically the grafting of Mormonism onto Emerson (or perhaps Whitman) with a bit of Lovecraft sprinkled on top, though mostly just for flavor. You stare into the face of the Oversoul or Brahman-Atman or whatever, but you retain your ego and so become a god or at least a Bodhisattva of some kind. Though I'm not sure if CHIM is supposed to be achievable through meditation (at least hypothetically) or if you need to go to extreme magical lengths just to get to the point of even confronting the Oversoul.

Lovecraft sprinkles? Yum! Please tell me there is a Deep one flavor!

I guess the Dark Brotherhood concept of Sithis is pretty close. How can I explain what I mean more acutely? I think Lovecraft's Cthulhu mythos was an outgrowth of the VIctorian/Edwardian reaction to Darwin and the other important 19th century scientists, which seemed to suggest that humanity was ultimately unimportant in the face of the universe and had no power to change anything. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmicism. So you could say, CHIM is facing the fundamental horror of the individual's insignificance in the universe and still being able to go on. You stare into the abyss and the abyss stares back at you and you spit in its face or grab it by the throat.

Well in Lovecraft, the person that see the truth of things never ends up well. That would be a strange HPL story for someone to actually have a non-insane smile on their face by the end of it all.

I feel sure Whitman would send Vehk into gales of laughter. I picture him rolling around in a heap, unable to stop himself from giggling. Whitman takes himself most seriously when he's most silly.

In any case, CHIM isn't that. Remember it means "starlight" and "crown."

I obviously haven't read enough Whitman then.

CHIM the word is different than CHIM the action, yes?

Speak with your actions; Let your actions speak for themselves.

I'm suddenly reminded of an odd argument that the popularity of Vampire flicks v. Zombies depended on who's running the government-- Democrats or Republicans, respectively.

CHIM is a reaction to ... fanlovehate backlash of being the chosen one each and every game? Sure, it appeases players in that they zero-out, and none of it matters afterward. Or It's Awesome, and you level+up?

I'm not sure how to answer that. But it's not accidental that a word meaning starlight and crown became the word for the action.

To be meta for a moment, it's become fashionable to explain CHIM as some sort of discount Buddhist enlightenment. But CHIM is not enlightenment. Nor is it simply the process of making oneself a god. It's possible to be a god and yet entirely without CHIM. If you were to compare CHIM to any real world religious concept, you'd come closer calling it "free will." Which is almost the opposite of what you've been getting out of these discussions, which shows how backwards the explanations have become. I keep telling you, discard what you've gotten stuck in your head and start over.

Okay, D.H. Lawrence then. Or Carlyle.

As for starlight and crown, you've lost me.


So its something Nietzschean like the Will to Power? Or like Sartre is http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/sartre/works/exist/sartre.htm?

Also, Mr. (or Ms.) Allerleirauh, are you some kind of person with some kind of present or past capacity with Bethesda? I only inquire because I saw Michael Kirkbride respond directly to you like he expected you. I am not so opposed to the intentional fallacy that I would give the word of such a person slightly more weight on the matter than the average schlub off the street.

I guess you might call it the anti-Nietzsche... there's something terribly ironic about a man who suffered daily intense pain, largely unable to work, and finally lost his mind completely, saying "What doesn't kill me makes me stronger." I always feel a little sorry for Nietzsche.

Michael's not hard to talk to directly! My husband's done some contract work for Bethesda - one dress made of fish, two walking trees, and possibly other things I don't remember. And Tedders mentioned me in the Pocket Guide briefly. But you should give my words weight when they deserve it. If the schlub knows what he's talking about, you should respect the schlub.

CHIM isn't existentialism either. It's a very very simple concept once grasped.

Okay, so it says in the FAQ that CHIM is:

The realization that you are just one small part of the dream of a schizophrenic Godhead, and that you therefore do not exist as an individual being, typically results in disappearing from the world. CHIM is this realization coupled with the wilful retaining of individual identity ("the ability to say 'I am'")

That this isn't Buddhist I get, because Buddhism denies there is a Godhead, and says you are indeed an individual being and that is actual the source of your suffering, your ego.

Is CHIM, like, transcendental Narcissism then?

Aha, I see where this is coming from now. Thanks. No wonder everyone is confused.

You could call CHIM transcendental Narcissism if it weren't for its inevitability.

Question for Chaplain and Co (And forgive me if I come off rude): If you're tired of discussing CHIM on the forum, why not:

Make a forum discussion archive; or basic FAQ + Basic facts on the Imperial Library or something.

Then, make a thread like CHIM discussion Megathread or something (Organization) and post links to CHIM archive/FAQ and the like.

Whenever a CHIM thread comes up, if by some odd way the people miss the megathread, just link to the thread and everyone refuse to answer the Thread.

Do forgive me if I misinterpreted the use/functions/restrictions of the Imperial library, if it only is used for actual ingame texts/Dev discussions and posts.
And of course, as it is fairly likely, if this has already been tried, well hrmm.