In my current game, I have run into some instances of doubled NPCs and one or two instances of doubled items (a book). It's no big deal in the game I'm playing, just a nuisance. I did use Wrye Mash to 'repair' the saved game, and it said no problems were found. Nor did mlox recommend any changes in load order, either, when I was setting up this game.

However, whenever this game ends, I would like to start a new game with a new character but using the same mods as I'm using now. When I read about the doubling problem, it seemed to suggest that doubling occurs because an object's (e.g., NPC) references in a save game have for one reason or another become out of sync with the references originally used.

Accordingly, does this mean that I can avoid the doubling problem in a new game so long as I do not add/delete mods in the data files list and do not upgrade any of the mods after I start a new game?

Thanks,

John

I would say that is a pretty safe bet.

:)

I had the same problem with a mod for OB. Have you installed any mods that came with two esps but only wanted one to be used? If yes, did you by accident check both of them?

@Jyggalag, In a different game, yep Fortunately, in one or two cases, the modder (I assume) put in a safety check to prohibit the user from making that mistake.

@Chainy, I hope so. I like the current group of mods I'm playing. They seem to go well together. The downside is that the mod authors might release updated material soon, which as I understand things could inadvertantly cause doubling if I update a mod in the midst of a game rather than before starting a new game.

What mod is causing the trouble? If it's a companion mod, try telling the companion to wait somewhere before you update. Also, the Morrowind Code Patch helps to prevent things like this happening.

You are certainly safest if you never touch your load order for an existing save, or at least only add mods to the very end of the list, but you're normally pretty safe if you run the MCP, use Mash to add/remove mods, update the masters list for your save, and clean your save frequently. However, the fact that cleaning in Mash doesn't remove the doubles you already have is somewhat troubling, and suggests to me that there may be a problem with Mash itself.

I'm afraid I don't know enough to give you much help with fixing the problem, but I can give you a warning; don't be cavalier about "nuisance" doubling. A few extra NPCs may not have that big of an impact on your game, but mismatched refs can cause a lot of problems that can lead to an unplayable save- doubling is just the most visible. And as Jac noted, companion mods are very susceptible to even minor doubling, and can be completely ruined by it. I've had the entire Lokken quest and the romance options from Julan ruined for me on two different savegames because of doubling. Had I nipped it in the bud when I first noticed the "harmless" extra, I probably could have fixed them.

If Mash isn't removing the doubling, it's likely caused by using two esps/esms when you should only have one of them.
Remember, Mlox doesn't know every single problem that can occur. The database is constantly needing updates as new problems are being found.

If you give us more pertinent info, we might be able to spot the problem.
Post your Load Order, please.

Using ORI on the doubled object will also help pinpoint the problem.

@Farengoth, Pluto
I can provide my load order (using the mlox left screen window). I use MGE and have MCP installed. Be aware that when I install mods, my procedure now is to use Wrye Mash to install them (as well as identify conflicts) into the Data Files folder, then in the MW Data Files window select those mods I want to play and 3rd, last but not least, run that through mlox. That is what I did when I set up my current game. The problem is that in this current game, I do not remember if I added any updates to the existing mods or not. I do know that I did add "Little Secrets" to the game I have in progress, as you can see that it is last in the load order. And ISTR that I spent a lot of time tracking down a compatibility issue between two mods, although I thought that, after identifying it, I started a fresh game withtout the problematical mod, after, of course, using mlox for the load order.

Also, remember (because it looks like everyone is losing sight of what I asked) my initial question was not about the existing game. It was whether the doubling is something that might happen in a new game using the existing set of mods I'm using now; I wanted to clarify yes or no so as to know how much deeper I needed to learn and to dig into what causes doubling. If doubling can be prevented by not adding/deleting/upgrading the set of mods once I start playing, that just requires me to discipline myself not to do so in an on-going game. However, if the doubling were due to something else, then I need to learn what so as to at least minimize it happening in my future games and what tools and procedures to use to do so.

I appreciate your interest about what happened, but for this geme I worry that a point of diminishing returns for everyone's efforts is being reached. My existing game still has playing time for me but maybe not long enough to warrant putting in a lot of effort to dig into the problem. And I'm still burnt out from the last sequence of testing I went through to narrow down a compatibility issue to the point where the mods' authors could identify and confirm the cause. It has been reported to mlox, btw.

The mlox mod order list:
_001_ Morrowind.esm
_002_ Tribunal.esm
_003_ Bloodmoon.esm
_004_ Morrowind Patch v1.6.4.esm
_005_ Better Heads.esm
_006_ Better Heads Tribunal addon.esm
_007_ Better Heads Bloodmoon addon.esm
_008_ Book Rotate.esm
_009_ Less Lore.esp
_010_ LGNPC_NoLore_v0_83.esp
_011_ Lgnpc_SN.esp
_012_ VGreetings.esp
_013_ k_weather.esp
_014_ Unique Banners and Signs.esp
_015_ KS_Julan_Ashlander Companion_1.3.esp
_016_ DB_Attack_Mod.esp
_017_ adamantiumarmor.esp
_018_ EBQ_Artifact.esp
_019_ LGNPC_GnaarMok_v1_10.esp
_020_ AtmosphericSoundEffects-3.0-Tribunal.esp
_021_ Windows Glow.esp
_022_ LGNPC_AldVelothi_v1_20.esp
_023_ Wilderness Sounds T & B.esp
_024_ Less_Generic_Bloodmoon.esp
_025_ LGNPC_MaarGan_v1_20.esp
_026_ AreaEffectArrows.esp
_027_ DXM_masterindex_journalfix.esp
_028_ VGreetings-Flee.esp
_029_ Eyren_Robes.esp
_030_ VGreetings-Idle.esp
_031_ TownSounds.esp
_032_ Master Trainers.esp
_033_ VGreetings-Thief.esp
_034_ Better Clothes_v1.1.esp
_035_ LGNPC_PaxRedoran_v1_20_GOTYST.esp
_036_ Galsiahs Character Development.esp
_037_ GCD StartScript for Trib or Bloodmoon.esp
_038_ LGNPC_HlaOad_v1_32.esp
_039_ New Argonian Bodies - Mature.esp
_040_ New Khajiit Bodies - Mature.esp
_041_ A_flock_of_seagulls.esp
_042_ LGNPC_Aldruhn_v1_20.esp
_043_ abotWhereAreAllBirdsGoing.esp
_044_ Better Bodies.esp
_045_ LGNPC_Aldruhn_v1_20_suppl.esp
_046_ Beds4Rent.esp
_047_ Wyr Jeweler v1.01 c.120.esp
_048_ LGNPC_Pelagiad_v1_22.esp
_049_ LGNPC_TelMora_v1_20.esp
_050_ LGNPC_Khuul_v2_10.esp
_051_ LGNPC_VivecFQ_v2_10.esp
_052_ Less_Generic_Nerevarine.esp
_053_ LGNPC_SecretMasters_v1_30.esp
_054_ LGNPC_IndarysManor_v1_51.esp
_055_ LGNPC_VivecRedoran_v1_50.esp
_056_ ME_Mannequins2.esp
_057_ Clerical Robes.esp
_058_ Bloated Caves.esp
_059_ Graphic Herbalism.esp
_060_ NX9_Guards_Complete.ESP
_061_ LGNPC_PaxRedoran_v1_20.esp
_062_ LGNPC_SoulSicknessPatch_v1_00.esp
_063_ Windows Glow - Tribunal Eng.esp
_064_ Less_Generic_Tribunal.esp
_065_ NX9_Guard_LGRedoran_Patch.ESP
_066_ NX9_Guard_LGTrib_patch.ESP
_067_ Windows Glow - Raven Rock Eng.esp
_068_ P.R.E. v4.0.esp
_069_ Balmora, Natar's House.esp
_070_ RealSignposts.esp
_071_ shrinetext.esp
_072_ Book Rotate - Tribunal v5.3.esp
_073_ Starfires NPC Additions ver-1.11.esp
_074_ Book Rotate - Bloodmoon v5.3.esp
_075_ Book Jackets - Morrowind - BookRotate.esp
_076_ Book Jackets - Tribunal - BookRotate.esp
_077_ Book Jackets - Bloodmoon - BookRotate.esp
_078_ More Better Clothes.ESP
_079_ JLH-RicherCreeper.esp
_080_ Little Secrets.ESP

mlox alert: [Plugins already in sorted order. No sorting needed!]

My guess (many weeks after the fact) is I messed up the LGNPC Redoran-related mods somehow (PaxRedoran, AldRuhn or AldRuhn supp.). I guess that only because the doubled NPCs I encounter (and it's not widespread) are Redoran NPCs. My post dated Feb. 5.noted a doubling problem, which I later discovered that the NPC was an LGNPC character. Although now that I look at the list, I see there's one mod I thought I had eliminated but didn't (_035_ LGNPC_PaxRedoran_v1_20_GOTYST.esp). As you can see, I'm not using the GOTY Script Tidy mod in this game. I don't think I'm going to screw around with it because I think I'm far past that point now to make a difference.

@Pluto, I assume ORI is a game console command? If so, I'll try to remember to use it the next time I run into a doubled object. My heart's not in the effort to retrace my route and hope I could find the last one I saw

John