A question about FO3Edit and "Undelete and disable" : Fallout 3

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:37 am

...do I still want to clean it?

For example, I have a mod called "PLFewerItems" that removes some of the stuff in Point Lookout. It has 158 records, of which 58 are deletions. If I run it through Undelete and Disable References, does that mean the items will still be gone in game?

Also, does anyone use http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3711? I've found a big FPS increase by using it, but running it through Undelete and Disable References gives me this message:

[Undeleting and Disabling References done] Processed Records: 16993 Undeleted Records: 15380 Elapsed Time: 00:22

That seems like quite a large portion, and I don't want to ruin the mod. I run BAIN, so it's easy to recover if I do something wrong, but I'd like to make sure that I'm doing things right.

Edit: Though trying to resave it after undeleting that much makes FO3Edit choke, so I guess it's a moot point.

Edit Edit: Is there a list of mods NOT to clean anywhere? For example, MMM.esp shows up with 70-something identical to master records, but it's so complicated I don't know if it should be cleaned at all.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:16 am

Someone else may know better than me on this (in fact, I am sure of that), but I personally ran ALL my mods through the clearing of identical to master records - not all had things to remove, so did (including some major ones like MMM). I personally have not noticed any issues in my game regarding this, but take that at your own mileage I suppose.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:13 am

You probably want to read http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/TES4Edit_Cleaning_Guide - found, of course, on the CS Wiki. It is unfortunate that so much knowledge learned from the whole TES arch of modding history is not looked into or utilized by fallout modders - same engine (or near same) after all.

Anyway the point of undelete with cleaning is this - say you have a mod that deletes a rock or a tree and then loading later another mod that moves that same tree. Think about a program given bad or contradictory information - it will give you garbage. Now the engine is sturdier than that. it won't be like those robots of yore that when given contradictory information just freeze in place, but it might cause crashing. This is not 100% every time in game but it is near constant when exiting. So a sure test of stability to me is being able to exit to main menu and reload saves. If I can't do that then I know something is hosed and it is just a matter of time before I find that point where it is near constant ctds. Any of this sound familiar? As in symptoms you might be having?

So all those deletions in the clean up mods - if another mod then access the rock that is not there - that means the program fails. Deletions are the worst kind of edits in this regard and so easy to make due to the way the CS/Geck is. It seems like you just click on the rock - hit delete and move on. But that is a narrow view that only modders who never consider other peoples mods as a factor.

Changing to disable means that the rock is then placed far underground along an axis (forget which) and the reference to it still exists so that it can be used mods that load later. So all is fine.

I've not ever heard of running the undelete feature and it breaking anything ever.

As for identical to master records - there are areas where they should be there and so the advice is not to clean mods that have esp as masters and don't clean overhauls, but there are other circumstances where they are needed too. Martigen himself stated that deletions are bad news, but that identical records are not always. He stated not to clean the identical records out of MMM.

clear as mud?

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:31 pm

clear as mud?

That does help a lot, actually. Thank you.

I ran the process on MMM, but didn't save the results. I'll go back and run Undelete and Disable on everything and check to see if I deleted identical to master on anything that fits the parameters you mentioned.

Hmm. It may actually be better for me to just uninstall and reinstall my mods and clean more methodically, actually, since I didn't start from the top down.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:23 pm

You are welcome.

I've heard some ask Elminster (of the edit programs) if he could change how far down disabled records go because while that number is good for Oblivion it is not always for Fallout3. I've yet to see that as an issue.

There is no list like there is in Oblivion, but a few things I see happening. The mods I find that need the more attention are landscape mods, mods like mention (though I don't use them), house mods, and quest mods. Those are the big offenders. Puce Moose for instance - very dirty mods. I tried pointing it out - was ignored ... probably again seen as a nuisance/a-hole.

Mods that change small things like scoped weapons - very clean usually. Don't clean WMK either. I'd avoid anything within the overhaul/FOIP family.

I don't think lists of specific mods to clean are helpful. So far I've not seen a lot of modders care. Besides it is better to learn yourself what is best to clean and check mods anyway. I recently came across the mods of http://www.fallout3nexus.com/modules/members/index.php?id=38219 - all spic and span - very clean mods.

[edit] and seeing your edit above. When doing BAIN packaging - http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084204-bain-mod-installation-projects/ - I clean first then (re)package. That way what I have to go back on is already clean.

As for the top down advice the general idea is that if the mods don't relate it will not matter. But sometimes mods relate without being explicitly dependent on each other. That is actually far more common with the cramped real estate of Oblivion than Fallout though where mod makers actually will edit their mods to work with another mod even though it is not listed as a master (or vice versa0. I've not seen that with F3. Once UL for F3 appears we may see it. But I doubt this game will get much more love.

[edit 2] spelling/grammar

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:36 am

Well, I feel like a dolt now, I made an incorrect assumption regarding that feature, and that is what I get for assuming. Not much I can do about it at the moment though, I'm a cool 90 hours into my current game with that, so such is life (unless this is something I can repair mid game?). At least I have encountered much in the lines of issues so far having done it, which I am now thankful for after having read through Psymon's posts. Noted for future reference I suppose.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:58 am

[edit] and seeing your edit above. When doing BAIN packaging - http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084204-bain-mod-installation-projects/ - I clean first then (re)package. That way what I have to go back on is already clean.

I suspect I will end up doing a lot of that, but I want to make sure the game is clean and (mostly) stable first. My most frequent source of crashes so far is on cell transition. Last time I played through (before I used Wrye Flash or BOSS), it got so bad that it was literally a 50% or so chance to crash every single cell transition, which meant it took me 10-15 restarts to get anywhere in the wastes (load, run for 30 seconds, save, run for 10 seconds, CRASH, repeat). I'd like to make sure I can avoid that this time, if it's possible. :cry:

Edit: Something else I'm noticing is that there are several mods whose masters are ordered different than the BOSS order, but clicking off on the side in the Masters panel doesn't auto-update their order like Wrye Bash does. I can do it manually pretty easily, but am I missing an option?

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:38 am

Red Eye-

Not sure what you mean by all that but you can clean mods again, or later, or whenever - that shouldn't be an issue. As long as you make backups.

AnDorchadas-

Ohh that does not sound good. no no. crashing that often is basically saying your game just does not work. Hmmm ... with all these threads I'm considering writing a thread on bug hunting and squashing. The issue is time. Taking 5 min to write this is different than what it took to write those other threads. The BAIN one was labor.

So at least let me give you the three pronged approach: Mods, settings, hardware. Your issue is in there somewhere.

So lets assume that settings are not too much for your rig and that the ini file is not messed up somehow. Lets also assume that all hardware is good and that hardware drivers related to game play are up to date and that Fallout is not getting UAC issues and what not.

That leaves mods and with mods these are common problems:
Dirty plugins
Plugins that conflict even if clean
Badly formatted plugins
Corrupt meshes
Corrupt spawn points
... off the top of my head these are common problems. Especially the conflict thing. Dirty edits exacerbate conflcits, but they can exist anyway.

I've found that with F3 some aspects - in terms of the number of (safe) mods, in terms of the high quality replacers - F3 is far more sturdy than Oblivion. On the other hand mod conflicts can seem more exaggerated. Recently in looking for the cause of issues in my load order, because after a few cell transitions I was getting missing maps, missing meshes, clothing, etc. but random what would go missing. I kept narrowing down until I found a cause ... Puce Moose Mantis Imperative. Removed that and so far no crashing.

So that is my first recommendation - just make test saves you don't want to keep and remove mods chunks at a time until you don't crash no matter what. You may have to do several rounds of this as it may be that a mod works fine until combined with another mod. That will help identify the issue, but not solve it. Solving it is far more complex. You can also run a very thorough conflict detector on all active mods in Fo3edit - may take a while but if you are willing to go record by record to find errors.

If after removing most mods and it continues to crash then it could be save games. Test by making new character.

If still then you got to go to settings and hardware.

best of luck. It is a pain I know.

[edit] oh yeah and the load order of masters - Elminster himself told me that this should not be a big issue. Basically since Bash is more accepted and used with Oblivion modders tend to recognize and correct for that. With Fallout - it gives you a glimpse at how some mod makers just didn't give load order much of a thought when saving their work.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:31 am

AnDorchadas-

Ohh that does not sound good. no no. crashing that often is basically saying your game just does not work. Hmmm ... with all these threads I'm considering writing a thread on bug hunting and squashing. The issue is time. Taking 5 min to write this is different than what it took to write those other threads. The BAIN one was labor.

Well, it's not doing that currently, but that was what happened the last time I played through Fallout 3 about 8-9 months ago. Back then, I barely knew how to use FO3Edit and didn't use BOSS at all, so there could have been an incredible number of conflicts going undiagnosed.

This time it varies. Sometimes I can play fine for a couple hours, and sometimes I load up, switch cells, and it just crashes right away. Usually it's an hour+, but the big thing is running around the Wasteland. I have a lot of mods that add possible Wasteland spawns, though (Wasteland Wanderer's, MMM, Wasteland Patrols, etc.), so I figure that's what's causing the occasional crash out there.

[edit] oh yeah and the load order of masters - Elminster himself told me that this should not be a big issue. Basically since Bash is more accepted and used with Oblivion modders tend to recognize and correct for that. With Fallout - it gives you a glimpse at how some mod makers just didn't give load order much of a thought when saving their work.

I found a couple with an .esm listed as being "supposed" to go after an .esp.

oo:

Edit: Oh, hey, look at that.

Spoiler

Undeleting: [REFR:0004E6DD] (places RockCanyon06rad70 [STAT:000464C3] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FFRadioTower07 [CELL:00001797] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at 16,7))
Undeleting: [REFR:0004E6DF] (places RockCanyon06rad70 [STAT:000464C3] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FFRadioTower07 [CELL:00001797] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at 16,7))
Undeleting: [REFR:0004E6E2] (places RockCanyon12rad68 [STAT:000464C7] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FFRadioTower07 [CELL:00001797] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at 16,7))
Undeleting: [REFR:0004E6E3] (places RockCanyon12rad68 [STAT:000464C7] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FFRadioTower07 [CELL:00001797] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at 16,7))
Undeleting: [REFR:0004E6E7] (places RockCanyon03rad190 [STAT:000464C0] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FFRadioTower07 [CELL:00001797] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at 16,7))
Undeleting: [REFR:0004E6EF] (places RockCanyon12rad68 [STAT:000464C7] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FFRadioTower07 [CELL:00001797] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at 16,7))
Undeleting: [REFR:0004E6F0] (places RockCanyon12rad68 [STAT:000464C7] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FFRadioTower07 [CELL:00001797] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at 16,7))
Undeleting: [REFR:0004E6F1] (places WastelandUndergrowth01 [TREE:0002AE17] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FFRadioTower07 [CELL:00001797] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at 16,7))
Undeleting: [REFR:0004E6F2] (places RockCanyon06rad70 [STAT:000464C3] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FFRadioTower07 [CELL:00001797] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at 16,7))
Undeleting: [REFR:0004E6F4] (places RockCanyon06rad70 [STAT:000464C3] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FFRadioTower07 [CELL:00001797] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at 16,7))
Undeleting: [REFR:00073272] (places RockCanyon13rad82 [STAT:00047A61] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00001796] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at 17,7))
Undeleting: [REFR:000C2AAD] (places RockCanyon12rad68 [STAT:000464C7] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FFRadioTower07 [CELL:00001797] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at 16,7))
Undeleting: [REFR:000C2AC0] (places FXDustWhirlWind01 [MSTT:00020CD7] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FFRadioTower07 [CELL:00001797] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at 16,7))
Undeleting: [REFR:000C2AD0] (places RockCanyon12rad68 [STAT:000464C7] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FFRadioTower07 [CELL:00001797] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at 16,7))

No wonder I kept getting crashes near that radio tower.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:22 am

The esm loading after esp - that means the mod maker did use MasterUpdate and did not use Wrye Flash. This gets exaggerated when they (rightly) only have 3 mods as masters and those 3 then get spread out when added to other mods making it look really extremely wrong.

They are likely a supporter of MasterUpdate and I try and not use those mods. I read several times that Mez of FWE did not use it much like me. I see Tarrant's point about MasterUpdate fixing companion issues, but I just can't go there and I don't care for companions anyway.

the mod hunting thing I still recommend - while minimal now it just could be that the serious conflicts have just not appeared yet because you haven't been to where they would get triggered.

Currently I run 3 Oblivion installs and my FCOM game is hosed. I know it is a mod conflict issue because the other two work fine - it comes down to me finding the culprits and I've just not had it in me to hunt them down lately (because others do work). I also recognize in me a stubbornness about wanting to make mods work - both to see if I can and because some I just want to work together because I want them both. This attitude has taught me a lot that I didn't want to learn and burnt time trying to make stuff work that just isn't going to.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:07 am

I'm going through and cleaning things now (see edit to previous post), and I'll probably do a more thorough test later. I'll see how it runs after I clean things in a more methodical fashion.

I have the opposite problem on Oblivion. I run 250 or so mods and almost never crash--unless I play for more than 45 minutes, at which point I hit the memory ceiling and boom. My next computer will definitely have a 64-bit OS.

Thank you again for all your advice.

Edit: Hmm...uninstalled mods, reinstalled, cleaned, and now the main menu isn't showing up at all. I know I had this problem before. How did I fix it...

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:42 am

Reinstall Darn?

Or any other similar mod that may have been done with FOMM?

... yeah it is only that Oblivion install that is problematic - the FCOM one. My other major one is a TIE-WAC install and it is smooth. Nehrim too.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:29 am

Reinstall Darn?

Or any other similar mod that may have been done with FOMM?

As near as I can tell, it was the reordering of masters to the BOSS orders I did on a few mods. Once I overwrite those with the orange-in-Flash versions, it stopped happening. Why this would occur, I have no idea, but...

Also uninstalled a mod that was giving me C++ Runtime errors when I ran Fallout 3 after I cleaned it. :brokencomputer:

Right now, it crashes without fail if I try to exit to the main menu from in the game, but if I just exit game it never crashes ever. I'm not sure how to interpret that.

... yeah it is only that Oblivion install that is problematic - the FCOM one. My other major one is a TIE-WAC install and it is smooth. Nehrim too.

Huh. Hopefully you can figure it out when you have a bit of time.

I really hope all these work-arounds aren't necessary for Skyrim.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:59 am

Edit: Something else I'm noticing is that there are several mods whose masters are ordered different than the BOSS order, but clicking off on the side in the Masters panel doesn't auto-update their order like Wrye Bash does. I can do it manually pretty easily, but am I missing an option?

This is something I've noticed to whilst add to the masterlist. I moved Lings.esm to be after the official DLC mods because another mod had them as masters listed this way. A couple days later I found another mod which had these as masters but listed the other way round, and they were by the same author! It's a very useful feture of Flash to be able to quickly alter these.

Of course, if it's wrong on the masterlist, it can qickly be changed.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:15 am

That's odd. Going down my load order from the top, the first point at which quitting to main menu becomes a 100% chance to crash is when I add...more radio stations? :huh:

That's not what I would have expected.

Edit: May as well post the load order:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Fallout3.esm01  Anchorage.esm02  ThePitt.esm03  StreetLights.esm04  BrokenSteel.esm05  PointLookout.esm06  Zeta.esm07  Lings.esm08  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esm  [Version 1.2.0]09  LingsDLC.esm0A  Inventory Access.esm0B  IMCN.esm0C  CRAFT.esm0D  CALIBR.esm  [Version 1.4]0E  TheInstitute.esm0F  Vault 101 Revisited.esm10  CubeExperimental (EN).esm11  Mothership Crew.esm12  BridgeTown.esm13  EVE.esm14  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esm15  Mart's Mutant Mod.esm16  LingsFinerThings.esm17  Companion Core.esm18  Wasteland Whisperer v2.esm19  Enhanced Weather - Rain and Snow.esm1A  Xepha's Dynamic Weather.esm1B  DCInteriors_ComboEdition.esm1C  Zumbs' Overhauled Real Time Security.esm1D  Ambient Temperature.esm1E  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Operation Anchorage.esp  [Version 1.2.0]1F  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - The Pitt.esp  [Version 1.2.0]20  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Broken Steel.esp  [Version 1.2.0]21  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Point Lookout.esp  [Version 1.2.0]22  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Mothership Zeta.esp  [Version 1.2.0]++  BrokenSteel_StarPaladinCross_Fix.esp23  DarNifiedUIF3.esp24  Ambient Temperature HUD.esp25  Ambient Temperature - OA.esp26  StreetLights - Wasteland.esp27  TakingOutTheTrash.esp28  TOTTPointLookoutEdition.esp  [Version 1.0]29  CASM.esp2A  Overhead3PCamera.esp2B  People_Radio.esp2C  mutantradio.esp2D  LookoutRadio.esp2E  RadioTenpenny.esp2F  CONELRAD 640-1240.esp30  HamadaRadioStation.esp31  Existence2.0.esp32  UPP - Experience Perks.esp33  Ex Libris - PreWar Book Titles.esp34  Dree Perks.esp35  Dree Perks Anchorage.esp36  Dree Perks Pitts.esp37  Dree Perks Broken Steel.esp38  Dree Perks Point Lookout.esp39  Dree Perks Mothership Zeta.esp3A  Slayer Of Grelok.esp3B  XtraSPECIAL.esp3C  NotSoFast.esp3D  HeirApparent.esp3E  IntoTheDeepWoods.esp3F  PLweightadjust.esp40  PLFewerItems.esp41  Regulators.esp42  Scavenger World.esp43  BoSPatrols.esp44  HouseholdWaterPurifier.esp45  Followers Allowed - The Pitt.esp++  Followers Allowed - Mothership Zeta.esp46  Followers Allowed - Point Lookout.esp47  BlackWolf Backpack.esp48  BlackWolf Backpack - Vendor Script Replenish.esp49  BlackWolf Backpack - Blank's Container Patch.esp4A  D.C. Confidential with Glow.esp4B  MoreMapMarkers.esp4C  MaxLevelWorkaround-HP-BS.esp4D  NoKnockedOverComments.esp4E  MTC Wasteland Travellers.esp4F  MTC Wasteland Travellers (Optional)- Crowded Cities.esp50  Point Lookout Lower Health.esp++  VaultSuitBetterRearsForFemales.esp51  UndergroundHideout.esp52  DCInteriors_DLC_Collectables.esp53  More2Megaton.esp54  GreenWorld.esp55  Meresti Metro Station Entrance.esp56  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esp57  FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Anchorage.esp58  FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC The Pitt.esp59  FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Broken Steel.esp5A  FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Point Lookout.esp5B  FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Mothership Zeta.esp5C  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Alternate Travel.esp5D  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Followers Enhanced (BrokenSteel).esp++  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Optional Restore Tracers (automatics only).esp5E  Refurbish [OA] - FWE.esp5F  Refurbish [TP].esp60  Refurbish [BS].esp61  Refurbish [PL].esp62  Refurbish [MZ].esp63  WeaponModKits.esp64  WeaponModKits - FWE Master Release.esp65  WeaponModKits - OperationAnchorage.esp66  WeaponModKits - ThePitt.esp67  WeaponModKits - BrokenSteel.esp68  WeaponModKits - PointLookout.esp69  WeaponModKits - Zeta.esp++  WeaponModKits - FWE Talon Loot Crash Fix.esp++  Echo_UseBothGloves.esp6A  SolarScorcher.esp6B  Colossus Armor.esp++  colossus T51c.esp6C  COL Enclave VER2.esp6D  SchoolUniforms.esp6E  Powered Power Armor.esp6F  PPA - Operation Anchorage.esp70  PPA - Broken Steel.esp71  PPA - The Pitt.esp72  PPA - Mothership Zeta.esp++  PPA - IMCN.esp73  NAPA.esp74  GhostArmor HGEC - Conversion.esp75  RealFragGrenade3.esp76  DeadlyTurrets.esp++  ZORTS - Content Destruction - Normal.esp++  ZORTS - Custom HP - FWE.esp77  ZORTS - Disable FWE activate.esp78  Companion Core DLC Addon.esp79  Wasteland Whisperer v2 Broken Steel Addon.esp7A  EVE.esp7B  EVE Operation Anchorage.esp7C  EVE - FWE Master Release.esp++  EVE - FWE Master Release (pulse fix).esp++  EVE - FWE Master Release (Follower Enhanced).esp++  EVE Anchorage - FWE DLC Anchorage.esp++  EVE - FWE with WeaponModKits.esp7D  Mart's Mutant Mod.esp7E  Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.esp7F  Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.esp80  Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.esp++  Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp81  Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Zeta.esp82  Mart's Mutant Mod - FWE Master Release.esp++  Mart's Mutant Mod - FWE Master Release + DLCs.esp83  LingsFinerThings.esp84  LingsPrettyThings.esp85  Mystyk's Followers.esp86  Imp's More Complex Needs.esp87  IMCN - 5 DLC Merged.esp88  IMCN - FWE Compatibility and Ingestibles.esp89  IMCN - MMM Meats, Bloods, and Eyeballs.esp8A  IMCN - Ambient Temperature.esp8B  Flashlight-LOS.esp8C  MZC Addon - MZC-IMCN Patch.esp8D  MZC Addon - Gear Improv-All in One.esp8E  MZC Addon-Olympus Armory (forecefield).esp8F  Attentater's Wasteland Economy.esp90  KillableChildren.esp  [Version 1.5]91  KillableChildren - MMM.esp  [Version 1.5]92  Knight Finley Companion.esp93  NoTheftComments.esp94  Whose been sleeping in my Bed.esp95  Realistic Interior Lighting.esp96  Realistic Interior Lighting - BS.esp97  Realistic Interior Lighting - OA.esp98  Realistic Interior Lighting - PL.esp99  Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Main.esp9A  Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Anchorage.esp9B  Xepha's Dynamic Weather - The Pitt.esp9C  Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Broken Steel.esp9D  Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Point Lookout.esp9E  Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Rain.esp9F  Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Sandstorm.espA0  Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Dynamic Sneak Bonus.espA1  Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Green Tint Remover.espA2  Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Sandstorms Damage Armor.espA3  tubunarFWE.espA4  tubunarCombatFWE.espA5  Bashed Patch, 0.espA6  RI_Sleep2.esp

Ticking everything down to Overhead3PCamera.esp there is fine, but once I add People_Radio.esp, it's "Fallout has encountered a problem..." every time.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:29 am

Then just skip the radio mods and keep looking for other mods that may cause the issue.

I too had crashes with radio mods until I figured out that I had to add F3 to ALchemy via the registry entry and that the file path was not cutting it.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:28 am

Also I'm curious ...

Also uninstalled a mod that was giving me C++ Runtime errors when I ran Fallout 3 after I cleaned it. :brokencomputer:

What mod was that?

I've occasionally very intermittently had blue screen crashes when my character dies. Does not happen with any pattern or regularity, but maybe that is a hint as to what might cause it.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:14 am

Then just skip the radio mods and keep looking for other mods that may cause the issue.

I too had crashes with radio mods until I figured out that I had to add F3 to ALchemy via the registry entry and that the file path was not cutting it.

Hmm. I'm playing on a laptop, so I'm reasonable certain I don't have a sound card.

The list of things I cannot load without "exit to main menu" crashing includes FWE. Even disabling everything else but the bare minimum for FWE still causes the crash. That's kind of a non-starter, because I'd rather play with the occasional crash than play without FWE.

Hmm...it's starting to seem like FOSE mods are causing it. There wasn't some kind of update not available at http://fose.silverlock.org/ that I missed, is there? Just grab 1.2v2 and the loader?

Also I'm curious ...
What mod was that?

I've occasionally very intermittently had blue screen crashes when my character dies. Does not happen with any pattern or regularity, but maybe that is a hint as to what might cause it.

http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11729. The idea of it is neat, but I may wait until its developed further (if it ever is).

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:10 pm

Well with this (my current load order) I do not crash on exit to main menu:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  fallout3.esm01  anchorage.esm02  thepitt.esm03  StreetLights.esm04  brokensteel.esm05  pointlookout.esm06  zeta.esm07  unofficial fallout 3 patch.esm  [Version 1.2.0]08  inventory access.esm09  imcn.esm0A  destruction.esm0B  pointlookout-followersgettogo.esm  [Version 2.]0C  impervious power armour.esm0D  craft.esm0E  calibr.esm  [Version 1.4]0F  xcalibr.esm10  xcalibruniverse.esm11  project beauty.esm12  refurbishes [all].esm13  cubeexperimental (en).esm14  Project Genesis.esm  [Version 1.00]15  fo3 wanderers edition - main file.esm16  mart's mutant mod.esm17  companion core.esm18  companion share & recruit.esm19  robco certified v2.esm1A  wasteland whisperer v2.esm1B  enhanced weather - rain and snow.esm1C  xepha's dynamic weather.esm1D  dcinteriors_comboedition.esm1E  zumbs' overhauled real time security.esm1F  ss master file.esm20  ambient temperature.esm21  unofficial fallout 3 patch - operation anchorage.esp  [Version 1.2.0]22  unofficial fallout 3 patch - the pitt.esp  [Version 1.2.0]23  unofficial fallout 3 patch - broken steel.esp  [Version 1.2.0]24  unofficial fallout 3 patch - point lookout.esp  [Version 1.2.0]25  unofficial fallout 3 patch - mothership zeta.esp  [Version 1.2.0]26  firelightfix.esp27  darnifieduif3.esp28  ambient temperature hud.esp**  Project Beauty- Broken Steel.esp**  Project Beauty- Point Lookout.esp29  DynamicCrosshair.esp2A  AutoGates.esp2B  dof-purelow.esp2C  tincancrafting.esp  [Version 2.0]2D  craft - energyammo.esp2E  calibrxmerchant.esp2F  lmdexpandedhotkeysfo3.esp  [Version 0.6]30  princess better prompts v1pt1.esp++  Zombie Sounds V2.esp++  GeneratorSound.esp31  moshman's wasteland ambiance.esp32  galaxynewsradio100[m].esp33  radioblues.esp34  war_radio.esp35  people_radio.esp36  invasionradio.esp37  kbatradio.esp38  vtap25.esp39  ghostradio.esp3A  mutantradio.esp3B  lookoutradio.esp3C  radiotenpenny.esp3D  radio stutter fix.esp3E  radiohotkey.esp3F  radiohotkey_radiobluesaddon.esp40  conelrad 640-1240.esp41  existence2.0.esp42  upp - pack 1.esp43  upp - pack 2.esp44  upp - original perks.esp45  upp - experience perks.esp46  upp  - quest perks.esp47  prewar book titles and perks.esp48  combat style perks.esp49  notsofast.esp4A  heirapparent.esp4B  Regulators.esp4C  nightmarerealm.esp4D  MarkB50K_Wasteland_Patrols.esp4E  tubrrcompound.esp4F  stealth kills enabled.esp++  Stealth Kills Enabled - Pitt Compatibility.esp50  echo_batterycharger.esp51  householdwaterpurifier.esp52  blackwolf backpack.esp53  gunnysack.esp  [Version 1.3]54  1animated nightvision goggles.esp55  fnvfov.esp56  xepha's radial blurred zoom.esp57  down under.esp  [Version 1.0]58  expanded megaton house v3.esp59  maintenanceshed.esp  [Version 1.3]5A  merc.esp5B  moremapmarkers.esp5C  maxlevelworkaround-hp-bs.esp5D  wastelandmastery.esp5E  skillcheck.esp5F  treasure maps_underground.esp60  treasure maps_secrets of the wasteland.esp61  treasure maps_bobblehead edition.esp62  treasure maps_a fist full of caps.esp++  Destruction - Main.esp63  destruction - main - statics.esp++  Destruction - DLC.esp64  destruction - dlc - statics.esp65  busworldv1.05d.esp66  ss enhanced combat maneuvers.esp67  mtc wasteland travellers.esp68  dcinteriors_dlc_collectables.esp69  rivet city realignment.esp6A  megalight.esp++  WastelandRecovery5.esp6B  movinonup3.0.esp6C  canterbury estates 0.8 beta.esp6D  fo3 wanderers edition - main file.esp6E  fo3 wanderers edition - dlc anchorage.esp6F  fo3 wanderers edition - dlc the pitt.esp70  fo3 wanderers edition - dlc broken steel.esp71  fo3 wanderers edition - dlc point lookout.esp72  fo3 wanderers edition - dlc mothership zeta.esp73  fo3 wanderers edition - alternate travel.esp++  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Optional Restore Tracers.esp74  fo3 wanderers edition - optional vats realtime.esp++  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Project Beauty.esp++  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Project Beauty (Followers Enhanced).esp75  fo3 quest patch - fwe + bs.esp76  weaponmodkits.esp77  weaponmodkits - fwe master release.esp78  weaponmodkits - operationanchorage.esp79  weaponmodkits - thepitt.esp7A  weaponmodkits - brokensteel.esp7B  weaponmodkits - pointlookout.esp7C  weaponmodkits - zeta.esp++  Echo_UseBothGloves.esp7D  alexscorpion's  and weijiesen's smoking fun.esp7E  solarscorcher.esp7F  tactical weapons by grs frederyck.esp80  zl-acr.esp81  zl-svd-calibr.esp82  MissingUniqueWeapons-Enhanced.esp++  InverseCombatKnife.esp83  playing with firepower.esp84  dogmeat leather armor - craft.esp85  dragonskin tactical outfit.esp86  dragonskinbonuspack.esp87  stealthboy recon armor - craft.esp88  powered power armor.esp89  ppa - operation anchorage.esp8A  ppa - broken steel.esp8B  ppa - the pitt.esp8C  ppa - mothership zeta.esp8D  ppa - fwe.esp++  PPA - IMCN.esp8E  calibr ammo schematics - craft.esp8F  craft improvised weaponry.esp90  craft improvised weaponry - unmodeled.esp91  dogmeatessentialmodv1.2.esp92  move-dogmeat.esp++  DogmeatStealth.esp++  ZORTS - Custom HP - FWE.esp93  zorts - disable fwe activate.esp94  companion core dlc addon.esp95  wasteland whisperer v2 broken steel addon.esp96  robco certified v2 mechanist's edition.esp97  robco certified v2 zeta addon.esp98  mr smith's scrapyard.esp++  tubURP.esp++  ThePitt-NoFireFollowers.esp99  WeaponModKits-Unique.esp++  YX33A WMK MUW E WMK U Patch.esp9A  immersivehealth.esp9B  falloutfood.esp++  FalloutFoods - FWE Master Release.esp**  Gunfire Sound Range Increased.esp9C  eve.esp9D  eve operation anchorage.esp9E  eve - fwe master release.esp++  EVE - FWE Master Release (Follower Enhanced).esp++  EVE Anchorage - FWE DLC Anchorage.esp++  EVE - FWE with WeaponModKits.esp9F  mart's mutant mod.espA0  mart's mutant mod - dlc anchorage.espA1  mart's mutant mod - dlc the pitt.espA2  mart's mutant mod - dlc broken steel.esp++  Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.espA3  mart's mutant mod - dlc zeta.espA4  mart's mutant mod - fwe master release.espA5  mart's mutant mod - fwe master release + dlcs.espA6  mart's mutant mod - fwe master release + project beauty.espA7  mysteriouswoman_corsetntrousers.espA8  imp's more complex needs.espA9  imcn - 5 dlc merged.espAA  imcn - fwe compatibility and ingestibles.espAB  imcn - mmm meats, bloods, and eyeballs.espAC  imcn - ambient temperature.espAD  Flashlight-LOS.esp++  T3T_MiscItemIcons.esp++  ACRForFWE.esp++  SVDForFWE.esp++  DTOForFWE.espAE  zumbs' smaller condition effect on item value.espAF  gifts4kids.espB0  ntfs.espB1  phalanx-obedient-dogmeat.esp++  lessviewdistance.esp++  PiPBoy Light Range x4.esp++  PiPBoy Yellow Light.espB2  enhanced weather - rainbows.espB3  enhanced weather - weather sounds in interiors.espB4  realistic interior lighting.espB5  realistic interior lighting - bs.espB6  realistic interior lighting - oa.espB7  xepha's dynamic weather - main.espB8  xepha's dynamic weather - anchorage.espB9  xepha's dynamic weather - the pitt.espBA  xepha's dynamic weather - broken steel.espBB  xepha's dynamic weather - point lookout.espBC  xepha's dynamic weather - rain.espBD  xepha's dynamic weather - sandstorm.espBE  xepha's dynamic weather - dynamic sneak bonus.espBF  xepha's dynamic weather - green tint remover.espC0  xepha's dynamic weather - sandstorms damage armor.espC1  robco certified v2 omnipatch.esp++  RobCo Certified v2 Impervious FWE.espC2  xcalibruniverse.espC3  xcalibr - alternative path.espC4  xcalibruniverse - wmk.espC5  xcalibruniverse_fwe_fps.esp++  xCALIBRammo_FWE.esp++  frederyck+FWE+xCALIBR.espC6  tubunarfwe.espC7  tubunarcombatfwe.espC8  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

I do crash on exit of game, but the fast exit setting on FalloutStutterRemover addresses that.

Have you tested to see if a new game crashes on exit to main menu with FWE active.

I do use that mod too. But I just tried three times to replicate it and I could not get BSOD - ah well.

This runtime error is that when trying to launch the game through Wrye Flash? Or using the FOSE loader itself?

I'm using FOSE 1.2b2

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:57 am

Well with this (my current load order) I do not crash on exit to main menu:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  fallout3.esm01  anchorage.esm02  thepitt.esm03  StreetLights.esm04  brokensteel.esm05  pointlookout.esm06  zeta.esm07  unofficial fallout 3 patch.esm  [Version 1.2.0]08  inventory access.esm09  imcn.esm0A  destruction.esm0B  pointlookout-followersgettogo.esm  [Version 2.]0C  impervious power armour.esm0D  craft.esm0E  calibr.esm  [Version 1.4]0F  xcalibr.esm10  xcalibruniverse.esm11  project beauty.esm12  refurbishes [all].esm13  cubeexperimental (en).esm14  Project Genesis.esm  [Version 1.00]15  fo3 wanderers edition - main file.esm16  mart's mutant mod.esm17  companion core.esm18  companion share & recruit.esm19  robco certified v2.esm1A  wasteland whisperer v2.esm1B  enhanced weather - rain and snow.esm1C  xepha's dynamic weather.esm1D  dcinteriors_comboedition.esm1E  zumbs' overhauled real time security.esm1F  ss master file.esm20  ambient temperature.esm21  unofficial fallout 3 patch - operation anchorage.esp  [Version 1.2.0]22  unofficial fallout 3 patch - the pitt.esp  [Version 1.2.0]23  unofficial fallout 3 patch - broken steel.esp  [Version 1.2.0]24  unofficial fallout 3 patch - point lookout.esp  [Version 1.2.0]25  unofficial fallout 3 patch - mothership zeta.esp  [Version 1.2.0]26  firelightfix.esp27  darnifieduif3.esp28  ambient temperature hud.esp**  Project Beauty- Broken Steel.esp**  Project Beauty- Point Lookout.esp29  DynamicCrosshair.esp2A  AutoGates.esp2B  dof-purelow.esp2C  tincancrafting.esp  [Version 2.0]2D  craft - energyammo.esp2E  calibrxmerchant.esp2F  lmdexpandedhotkeysfo3.esp  [Version 0.6]30  princess better prompts v1pt1.esp++  Zombie Sounds V2.esp++  GeneratorSound.esp31  moshman's wasteland ambiance.esp32  galaxynewsradio100[m].esp33  radioblues.esp34  war_radio.esp35  people_radio.esp36  invasionradio.esp37  kbatradio.esp38  vtap25.esp39  ghostradio.esp3A  mutantradio.esp3B  lookoutradio.esp3C  radiotenpenny.esp3D  radio stutter fix.esp3E  radiohotkey.esp3F  radiohotkey_radiobluesaddon.esp40  conelrad 640-1240.esp41  existence2.0.esp42  upp - pack 1.esp43  upp - pack 2.esp44  upp - original perks.esp45  upp - experience perks.esp46  upp  - quest perks.esp47  prewar book titles and perks.esp48  combat style perks.esp49  notsofast.esp4A  heirapparent.esp4B  Regulators.esp4C  nightmarerealm.esp4D  MarkB50K_Wasteland_Patrols.esp4E  tubrrcompound.esp4F  stealth kills enabled.esp++  Stealth Kills Enabled - Pitt Compatibility.esp50  echo_batterycharger.esp51  householdwaterpurifier.esp52  blackwolf backpack.esp53  gunnysack.esp  [Version 1.3]54  1animated nightvision goggles.esp55  fnvfov.esp56  xepha's radial blurred zoom.esp57  down under.esp  [Version 1.0]58  expanded megaton house v3.esp59  maintenanceshed.esp  [Version 1.3]5A  merc.esp5B  moremapmarkers.esp5C  maxlevelworkaround-hp-bs.esp5D  wastelandmastery.esp5E  skillcheck.esp5F  treasure maps_underground.esp60  treasure maps_secrets of the wasteland.esp61  treasure maps_bobblehead edition.esp62  treasure maps_a fist full of caps.esp++  Destruction - Main.esp63  destruction - main - statics.esp++  Destruction - DLC.esp64  destruction - dlc - statics.esp65  busworldv1.05d.esp66  ss enhanced combat maneuvers.esp67  mtc wasteland travellers.esp68  dcinteriors_dlc_collectables.esp69  rivet city realignment.esp6A  megalight.esp++  WastelandRecovery5.esp6B  movinonup3.0.esp6C  canterbury estates 0.8 beta.esp6D  fo3 wanderers edition - main file.esp6E  fo3 wanderers edition - dlc anchorage.esp6F  fo3 wanderers edition - dlc the pitt.esp70  fo3 wanderers edition - dlc broken steel.esp71  fo3 wanderers edition - dlc point lookout.esp72  fo3 wanderers edition - dlc mothership zeta.esp73  fo3 wanderers edition - alternate travel.esp++  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Optional Restore Tracers.esp74  fo3 wanderers edition - optional vats realtime.esp++  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Project Beauty.esp++  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Project Beauty (Followers Enhanced).esp75  fo3 quest patch - fwe + bs.esp76  weaponmodkits.esp77  weaponmodkits - fwe master release.esp78  weaponmodkits - operationanchorage.esp79  weaponmodkits - thepitt.esp7A  weaponmodkits - brokensteel.esp7B  weaponmodkits - pointlookout.esp7C  weaponmodkits - zeta.esp++  Echo_UseBothGloves.esp7D  alexscorpion's  and weijiesen's smoking fun.esp7E  solarscorcher.esp7F  tactical weapons by grs frederyck.esp80  zl-acr.esp81  zl-svd-calibr.esp82  MissingUniqueWeapons-Enhanced.esp++  InverseCombatKnife.esp83  playing with firepower.esp84  dogmeat leather armor - craft.esp85  dragonskin tactical outfit.esp86  dragonskinbonuspack.esp87  stealthboy recon armor - craft.esp88  powered power armor.esp89  ppa - operation anchorage.esp8A  ppa - broken steel.esp8B  ppa - the pitt.esp8C  ppa - mothership zeta.esp8D  ppa - fwe.esp++  PPA - IMCN.esp8E  calibr ammo schematics - craft.esp8F  craft improvised weaponry.esp90  craft improvised weaponry - unmodeled.esp91  dogmeatessentialmodv1.2.esp92  move-dogmeat.esp++  DogmeatStealth.esp++  ZORTS - Custom HP - FWE.esp93  zorts - disable fwe activate.esp94  companion core dlc addon.esp95  wasteland whisperer v2 broken steel addon.esp96  robco certified v2 mechanist's edition.esp97  robco certified v2 zeta addon.esp98  mr smith's scrapyard.esp++  tubURP.esp++  ThePitt-NoFireFollowers.esp99  WeaponModKits-Unique.esp++  YX33A WMK MUW E WMK U Patch.esp9A  immersivehealth.esp9B  falloutfood.esp++  FalloutFoods - FWE Master Release.esp**  Gunfire Sound Range Increased.esp9C  eve.esp9D  eve operation anchorage.esp9E  eve - fwe master release.esp++  EVE - FWE Master Release (Follower Enhanced).esp++  EVE Anchorage - FWE DLC Anchorage.esp++  EVE - FWE with WeaponModKits.esp9F  mart's mutant mod.espA0  mart's mutant mod - dlc anchorage.espA1  mart's mutant mod - dlc the pitt.espA2  mart's mutant mod - dlc broken steel.esp++  Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.espA3  mart's mutant mod - dlc zeta.espA4  mart's mutant mod - fwe master release.espA5  mart's mutant mod - fwe master release + dlcs.espA6  mart's mutant mod - fwe master release + project beauty.espA7  mysteriouswoman_corsetntrousers.espA8  imp's more complex needs.espA9  imcn - 5 dlc merged.espAA  imcn - fwe compatibility and ingestibles.espAB  imcn - mmm meats, bloods, and eyeballs.espAC  imcn - ambient temperature.espAD  Flashlight-LOS.esp++  T3T_MiscItemIcons.esp++  ACRForFWE.esp++  SVDForFWE.esp++  DTOForFWE.espAE  zumbs' smaller condition effect on item value.espAF  gifts4kids.espB0  ntfs.espB1  phalanx-obedient-dogmeat.esp++  lessviewdistance.esp++  PiPBoy Light Range x4.esp++  PiPBoy Yellow Light.espB2  enhanced weather - rainbows.espB3  enhanced weather - weather sounds in interiors.espB4  realistic interior lighting.espB5  realistic interior lighting - bs.espB6  realistic interior lighting - oa.espB7  xepha's dynamic weather - main.espB8  xepha's dynamic weather - anchorage.espB9  xepha's dynamic weather - the pitt.espBA  xepha's dynamic weather - broken steel.espBB  xepha's dynamic weather - point lookout.espBC  xepha's dynamic weather - rain.espBD  xepha's dynamic weather - sandstorm.espBE  xepha's dynamic weather - dynamic sneak bonus.espBF  xepha's dynamic weather - green tint remover.espC0  xepha's dynamic weather - sandstorms damage armor.espC1  robco certified v2 omnipatch.esp++  RobCo Certified v2 Impervious FWE.espC2  xcalibruniverse.espC3  xcalibr - alternative path.espC4  xcalibruniverse - wmk.espC5  xcalibruniverse_fwe_fps.esp++  xCALIBRammo_FWE.esp++  frederyck+FWE+xCALIBR.espC6  tubunarfwe.espC7  tubunarcombatfwe.espC8  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

I do crash on exit of game, but the fast exit setting on FalloutStutterRemover addresses that.

Have you tested to see if a new game crashes on exit to main menu with FWE active.

I just tested it with my full mod list given above (waited until half-way through the birth scene), and I could successfully exit to main menu.

Does that mean there's save-game corruption and I should restart? Or is there anything I can do?

I do use that mod too. But I just tried three times to replicate it and I could not get BSOD - ah well.

This runtime error is that when trying to launch the game through Wrye Flash? Or using the FOSE loader itself?

I'm using FOSE 1.2b2

Well, the runtime error only happened twice, but the fact that it happened at all worries me a bit. It may have just been a fluke, though.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:18 am

Well often there needs to be clean saves made when removing essential mods. So you might find that by going back and saving then letting it crash and reloading the save with the mods cleaned out (and probably a cell respawn) might lead to more stability in the save game file.

No promises.

I get the C runtime error when launching through bash bottom bar - need to check if that continues without that mod though. Will get back to you on it.

[edit] YES that was the cause of it. Strange I did not get it when launching through FOSE loader only by activating the FOSE loader via bash launcher. I has assumed it was a fault on bash. Well that clears that up. And Out goes that mod for now anyway. Yeah great idea for a mod, but standards are such that I can't have that kind of instability.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:27 pm

I just did a stability test. Started in Megaton and just ran. I managed to get all the way to the northern border of the map and then halfway from there to the northwestern corner before the game crashed. I'll try to do a full cell reset in Megaton and see if that helps anything.

I did run into a place where the ground was gone (all the statics were there, but no ground), but if I remember right that's a Gamebryo bug. I know the same thing happened to me in Oblivion a couple times and saving, quitting and reloading fixed it. I didn't do that this time because it would have ruined the test for continuous stability.

Edit: To answer your other question, I always run the FOSE loader directly.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:18 am

That is a pretty good test.

Other things to do -
1. Fast travel multiple times in a row.
2. Go in an out of interiors multiple times.
3. Exit to main menu and reload one or more saves multiple times.
4. Get killed and see if the game reloads without issue.
5. Test weapons and armor - get into combat.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:00 am

That is a pretty good test.

Other things to do -
1. Fast travel multiple times in a row.
2. Go in an out of interiors multiple times.
3. Exit to main menu and reload one or more saves multiple times.
4. Get killed and see if the game reloads without issue.
5. Test weapons and armor - get into combat.

I just played for an hour before it crashed when I read a skill book (happened to me before, I assume as a result of the book perks module of FWE's script) and managed to cover most of those bases, in addition to getting into combat several times during my previous run across half the map.

Moira's to my house to drop off stuff, then to Moira's, then outside, fast travel to Fort Independence, they gave me power armor so back to Moira's to fit it, back to my house to drop it off, outside and fast travel to Fort Independence again, run to Robo-Co Factory, get in a couple fights on the way, inside Rob-Co, kill radroaches, wait for CASM save, crash on reading skill book.

And I blew myself up with a Fat Man a few times and reloaded because the whole magic "blow your self up" corruption-clearing trick might be nonsense, but it certainly won't hurt anything.

I'm okay with once-a-hour crashes in a heavily-modded Gamebryo game. Like I mentioned earlier, I can't do Oblivion for more than 45 minutes or so and my save is 200 hours in. It's the once-every-30-seconds crashes I got with my last install while out in the Wasteland that I want to avoid.

Random thing I found--"Animal Friend" means wanamingos are friendly to you. I wonder if that's intended. I guess if yao guai are, there's no reason wanamingos shouldn't be.

Edit: There's an example of an obvious incompatibility causing a crash. Using Wasteland Whisperer, ran over to a wild boar (added in MMM rc6, I think). "Tame" option popped up, so I tried it. Boom, crash.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:19 pm

Hmm...the entrance to the Outcast forward base for Operation Anchorage is just gone. No cell floor.

Which makes me think. The other place that happened was over in the Northwest, near where the path to the Pitt is. Maybe I shouldn't have run "delete identical to master" on the DLC. :facepalm:

Well, it's easy enough to fix. Just delete them and tell Steam to verify the integrity of the cache.