Question about Golden Saints and Dark Seducers : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:35 pm

1. Why do they hate each other so much?
2. Can they die of starvation and natural causes the same way that a human can?
3. Do they reproduce the same way that a human does? Can they lust? Harbor romantic feelings? Have sixual urges?
4. Why are men so looked down upon in their society?

*Unrelated to the Golden Saints and Dark Seducers*
5. How long ago was it that Jyggalag was cursed by the other Daedric Princes?
6. After the SI mail quest is finished, does everyone know that Sheogorath was also Jyggalag?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:21 am

1. They're rivals. For Lord Sheogorath's favor, for control of the Isles, for the greater claim to honor, in all things in general.

2. No. They're Daedra. Daedra have no material needs, other than not getting poked in the eye with sharp things.

3. If they do, I don't want to know about it. They're Daedra.

4. Because any one of them who can't pwn 17 men before breakfast is a weakling unfit for guarding anything more challenging than an abandoned ruin.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:17 am

adding to 3) As far as I know, no daedra has a human life cycle. If they die, they are stuck in the cold blackness of Oblivion till their master releases them. I'm pretty sure they keep their form. Also, I believe they do have reproductive organs, but not for popping out babies. I bet they can lust, love, etc, we just don't see, hear, or really know about it, and the majority of intelligent daedra won't just go and have an orgy or get it on. Though, from what I gather from Battlespire, they still can love and have a very deep connection to each other.

Here's a good quote about some nature of daedra

Sinder Velvin: I don't know exactly how to break this to you, but -- Well -- Maybe you have better take a look at this dagger. She said -- Deyanira -- That is --

Jaciel Morgen: Aaaaaa! She is gone! GONE! I should tear your beating heart out and force you to eat it in tiny bites, one wriggling, beating bite each century! I should flay the skin from your body and hurl your living carcass into the sea of my salty tears.

Sinder Velvin: She did it for you.

Jaciel Morgen: You, mortal -- No doom so slow, no pain so tearing --

Sinder Velvin: Nothing you do will bring her back. She'll be back in her own sweet time, from what I understand about you Daedra. And for all that sweet time you can think about how little you cared for her, and how lonely you'll be without her, and how much she was willing to do for you, when you wouldn't do anything but pout and snivel.

Jaciel Morgen: What you say -- Perhaps is true. Too fair. But... You BASTARD! You TRICKED her into this, to serve your own SELFISH ends!

Sinder Velvin: No. It was her idea. I haven't got her kind of vision. Or character. I admit. I'd lie like a rug to save my skin. But I haven't got the imagination to think of a thing like she did. And it would NEVER occur to me that she might do it of her own free will. In fact, I'm sorry. And ashamed. That I helped her to do this thing.

Jaciel Morgen: Perhaps I can understand. You are a mortal. And mortals see things differently. A mortal must never regret, never feel shame, for what it does to save its life.

Sinder Velvin: Normally I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. But that's not how I feel right now. Look. She isn't really dead, is she?

Jaciel Morgen: Daedra do not really die. Not as you know death. But we can sacrifice ourselves to Oblivion. As she did. Oblivion is existence and self-awareness without the ability to see, hear, or affect the world. For an immortal it is hell -- Unspeakable pain and horror -- Absolute loss. Eventually we do return. But not all return as they were. There is sickness. Madness. Change.

Sinder Velvin: I'm sorry. I hope Deyanira will be all right. She certainly has a strong spirit, if that's of any consequence.

Jaciel Morgen: It is passing strange, but I feel your comfort, mortal. You have so much to lose, you things of flesh, and yet you do not despair. An intriguing mystery.

Sinder Velvin: Yes. My flesh does have a lot to lose. And another, a close friend, is also in danger. So please help me. How may I leave this place?

5) Around the time of the creation of Nirn
6) No. Only the daedra, your butler, and that one order guy. However, you are now the new Sheogorath and will mold into him completely in time. It would have been like he never left.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:30 am

I just thought about something. Why aren't there any Dark Seducers in the game Morrowind?

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:30 pm

6) No. Only the daedra

By Daedra, do you specifically mean the Daedric Princes?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:06 am

I just thought about something. Why aren't there any Dark Seducers in the game Morrowind?

Same reason there aren't Winged Twilights in Oblivion?

Seriously, the devs pick the creatures they need in each game, and ones that don't fit the story get left out. Lesser Daedra don't have anything like the significance in Morrowind that they were given in Oblivion.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:46 am

Had the Seducers been thought up when Morrowind was made? What I mean is, were the Seducers in any of the games prior to Morrowind, or did they make their debut in SI?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:39 am

There were daedra called Seducers, or Dark Seducers, in Battlespire if I remember correctly.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:54 am

There were daedra called Seducers, or Dark Seducers, in Battlespire if I remember correctly.

I hold to the belief that the two of them are not the same. Sheo's seducers are called the Mazken (golden saints Auriels). They even mention that those names are just bad mortal classification between the two daedra.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:00 pm

5) When Lorkhan's heart was removed. Those two events are connected.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:45 pm

1. Don't know. Never played a game with both of them.

3. They're awefully sixy for not having any and why else would they be called Dark seducers?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:38 am

3. They're awefully sixy for not having any and why else would they be called Dark seducers?

A very good idea on the developer's part...

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:47 am

2. Can they die of starvation and natural causes the same way that a human can?

They don't starve or age, but they are affected by poisons. In fact, the Golden Saints are weak against poison.

3. Do they reproduce the same way that a human does? Can they lust? Harbor romantic feelings? Have sixual urges?

They don't seem very fond of mortals either way, but they seem to act very...friendly towards Sheogorath. But given that a Winged Twilight can elope with a Frost Atronach in Morrowind, and given that the Dremora in Maar Gan threatens to [censored] the player's corpse after getting taunted, I'd say that they're not incapable of sixual actions.

4. Why are men so looked down upon in their society?

It might be due to the sixual dimorphism in their races, or something related to it.

On a side note, it's said that Jyggalag appears at the end of every Era, but Yngvar Doom-Sayer's research has concluded that the destruction happens every thousand years, whereas Tamrielic Eras vary in length.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:42 pm

A very good idea on the developer's part...

They do grant you "a sporting change to 'scape your death by Huntsman's lance" in http://www.imperial-library.info/bestiaries/battlespire_large_seducerdark-2.jpg.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:12 pm

They do grant you "a sporting change to 'scape your death by Huntsman's lance" in http://www.imperial-library.info/bestiaries/battlespire_large_seducerdark-2.jpg.

I was more referring to the fact most players are male

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:44 pm

I just thought about something. Why aren't there any Dark Seducers in the game Morrowind?

An explanation for this could be that the Golden Saints weren't in favor with Sheogorath during the events of Morrowind thus explaining why the Saints were sent to do the mortals bidding while the Seducers were given the honor of remaining in the Shivering Isles to guard it. Or vice-versa. This all speculation really.