when reading another thread I began to wonder something. in the text that says that ald'ruhn was destroyed it says the deadra moved to a seige of ghost gate. why would the deadra want to? one possible reason that crossed my mind was that when dagon was invadeing tamirail that in order to take over it completely he needed to capture all of the towers. what do yall think?

I think it's more of a method of extermination. Ghostgate was a very well-defendable stronghold at that point, maybe the best in Morrowind for the selected purpose. Mehrunes Dagon wanted to effectively eradicate the mortal populace of Tamriel, in order to recover Dawn's Beauty to a plane of Daedric dominion. It's stated that the inhabitants of Morrowind (or just Vvardenfell? Not sure of the exact group that holed up in it) fell back to Ghostgate, as a last defense against the coming horde. Whether the Dunmer were victorious or were ruthlessly obliterated, few can say.

It's unlikely that Dagon had any use for the keeping/holding of mortal-made structures.

Following the aftermath of Tribunal and the demise of , can it be assumed that the Ghostfence was drained of its power after Vivec allegedly went missing?

You might as well have used that other thread and asked the question there. The answer is most likely no: those towers that were powerful enough to hamper Dagon's advance were out of commission already.


The Ghostfence stopped working the moment the Nerevarine severed the enchantments on the Heart.

And I don't think you need to use the spoiler tag around here.

What if Vivec only went missing after the Dunmer fell back to Ghostgate? Would the fence, had it been active, have provided any protection against Oblivion gates opening inside it anyway?

Such a huge artifact like the Ghostfence, upheld by millions of warrior-spirits, dedicated to their loved ones and gods with religious fervor, had to have been a great buttress for the existing barrier. It provided a distinct border between Dagoth Ur's realm and the Temple's, but it may have had a dual purpose, as so many objects in Dunmer culture do. I wish I could find a better source for this, I'm certain this has been discussed in more detail...

Anyway, Ghostfence could have been a formidable barrier to Dagon even after it stopped glowing, we never see the other ghostfences glowing so vibrantly either. But what good is a buttress without a wall.

My friends,

Remember that there is a difference between the Ghostgate and the Ghostfence.

The Ghostgate is (or was, if the daedra razed it) a fortress that doubled as a resting place for pilgrims on their way

As a matter of fact, the two towers of the Ghostgate, Dusk and Dawn, were constructed after the War of the First Council (http://www.imperial-library.info/history/1.shtml) as a buffer against Dagoth Ur. However, it wasn't until http://www.imperial-library.info/history/3.shtml that the Tribunal begins to build the Ghostfence due to the rise of the blight.

There would be many reasons for Dagon's attack on Vivec's fortress. The Ghostgate has long served as the fortress headquarters of Vivec's Buoyant Armigers plus a garrison of Ordinators. In fact, the Ordinator Grand Commander Ralyn Othravel is in the Tower of Dawn and Buoyant Armiger Grand Marshal Galdal Omayn is in the Tower of Dusk. On top of that, House Redoran maintains a hostel (i.e., resting place) for those pilgrims on their way to the ALMSIVI Shrine of Pride, which would make a wonderful morale target, since it symbolizes ALMSIVI's "indomitable will over their enemies".

Once Dagon had taken out the Ghostgate, it is a straight shot to Balmora via Foyada Mamaea, which is a volcanic ravine that runs from the top of Red Mountain southwest to its end just below Balmora, which, at that point, would have Dagon right at Fort Moonmoth's front door, stopping by on his way Pelagiad and then to Vivec City Itself.

In conclusion, my friends, I find that there was a more thought placed into the siege of Ghostgate than would would normally expect out of the Prince of Destruction. He must have had his Valkynaz doing the thinking for him.

I hope this helps, for I remain...


Yours in the Scrolls,


___The Word Merchant of Julianos

The battle plan of a raging tide of destruction is hardly for me to guess.

I was actually looking at the metaphysical importance to the Ghostfence, which seemed to make a model of the Hurling Disk. What boundary does the Hurling Disk model? That of Void and Aurbis. Whose scuffle is this the result of? Padomay and Anu. So if we are looking at the model of that ideal, then who are players of this myth-echo? Sermon 11 says: So would Dagon care about the aforementioned significance of Ghostfence enough to attack, or was it on the merits of being the HQ of the Armingers? Again, the battle plan of a raging tide of destruction is hardly for me to guess.

First of all, the remnants of Ald-Ruhn fled to Ghostgate. If he wanted to completely behead Redoran, then besieging Ghostgate was a natural extension.

Second, why would Daedric forces care about hitting places to get them to the important places when they just have to go through an Oblivion gate, and then open up some gates where they want to attack? It's what they did with Kvatch. As soon as any effective resistance was quashed, the siege engine went back to Oblivion and presumably the bulk of the invasion as well.

But, to open a gate, requires a person on this side going to the site of the opening and performing some sort of magic ritual. They'd have to have sleeper cells in every city, some of whom are going to get themselves killed if they start performing rituals in the middle of Balmora. The Daedra's tactic appears to be to open gates in isolated areas and pour their armies through to fight conventionally, or on much rarer occasions, as in Kvatch and the imperial city, to perform lightning raids that devastate the city and then leave. Given the rarity of the city gate attacks, It makes more sense for the daedra to send small guerilla groups through many different gates, which cause a bit of mayhem at isolated roads and settlements before coalescing into one large army for conventional warfare such as is implied to have taken place at Aldruhn.

I like what you're saying here. It makes (much needed) sense.

But this, I think, doesn't really hold:

"The rarity of the city gate attacks" is explained rather by the fact that the people learned how to close them than by the lack of means of intent. The game shows all the major cities of Cyrodiil under siege (however naive and easily broken), and there's no reason to doubt it was the same elsewhere.

Consider this: if it was possible to open "city attacking gates" in Kvatch and Imperial City, why wouldn't the same be done in other places? If you have the manpower and resources to do this in (arguably) the largest cities, why bother with guerrilla warfare elsewhere? We do agree the goal is to destroy settlements, one way or another, don't we?

I still like what you're saying. It could be made to work... if we more or less reject the game as a fanciful representation, which I have absolutely nothing against... Imagine that there were no gates near/inside the cities at all, only in wilderness, and the whole war was fought as conventionally as fighting monsters from another dimension gets.

I wonder what became of Krazzt and Anhaedra when Dagon attacked Morrowind...

Not necessarily. Witness Bruma. We're pretty sure there were no Mythic Dawners in Bruma and yet four oblivion gates managed to open before our very eyes without any obvious mortal intervention.

It is also entirely possible ancestor worship and, this may sound trite, Vivec saved Morrowind from an Oblivion Crisis. End of Times cult? ghostfences? CHIM? I'm just sayin'. Where Oblivion's setting is located means something when accounting for the intensity of the crisis too. It could be it was just a cooler crisis over there in the Star-Wounded East.

According to Liminal bridges opening a gate from inside Mundus is the only way in and http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/jearl_order.shtml imply that she's been opening gates around Bruma. So you can assume there are others attempting to open the great gate.

Their absence seems to be an error in depiction from the same category as having three gates on every square mile of wilderness.

It takes a person to open a gate, as you learned in the Bruma quests... The reason that the big gate opened in Kvatch (wich needs lesser gates to open first) was probaly because the guards were suprised so the gates could be easily opened.... The reason that they opened in the Imperial City was because the barriers between Oblivion and Tamriel were tottaly destroyed.. that's why Mehrunes Dagon only appeared then... and not earlier...

That's all i know
:D

Regarding the use of Oblivion Gates outside of cities: isn't it possible that only a certain number of gates could be deployed at any given time? Given that the barriers between Mundus and Oblivion were only weakening, not destroyed at the onset of the Crisis, it makes sense that Dagon's forces could only begin deploying addtional gates as the barrier became weaker. Otherwise, they could have just gotten the Mythic Dawn to open a few hundred gates between cities, in undefended areas, and done their own charming equivalent of a Zergling rush.

So, if they could only open a limited number of gates, it makes sense that after the initial attacks, they'd position them away from the major cities; if they'd opened one directly outside Ald'Ruhn, for example, I have no doubt Redoran would have been capable of closing it before they were overwhelmed. If they open it further away, however, then Redoran can't shut that gate as easily, and they can build up a sizeable force before assaulting. If this is the case, then it makes sense that they would want to control tactical positions, like Ghostgate: as The Word Merchant pointed out, it allows access to a number of other key positions throughout Vvardenfell, not to mention the psychological impact of defeating such a ceremonial based fortress.

The only exception to this theory would be Cyrodiil, where Dagon deployed gates outside of every major city, and throughout the wilderness. This makes sense, though, because if Dagon were able to break through Cyrodiil's defenses, and actually take the province, it's game over for all of Tamriel: the Imperial Legion no longer has any form of centralized command structure, and Dagon then controls the only means of re-establishing the barrier, in the Imperial City.

And he would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for that meddling priest and his Champion...

Sean Bean away!

Alright, I'll concede the point.

However, that is a rather large plot hole.