A Question about the Mages Guild : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:12 am

Who was the Arch Mage before Arch Mage Traven was in power? I havent found any reference giving me a clue as to who he/she was. Can someone fill me in?

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:03 pm

There was a council of Arch Mages. During the events in Oblivion a couple got killed and some went over to Manimacro. The council was dissolved and Traven was the only archmage left.

Who had Travens seat before he came on the council is unknown.

» Fri May 27, 2011 4:16 pm

There was a council of Arch Mages. During the events in Oblivion a couple got killed and some went over to Manimacro. The council was dissolved and Traven was the only archmage left.

Who had Travens seat before he came on the council is unknown.

Thats a real downer. But at least i know, thanks

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:26 am

There was a council of Arch Mages. During the events in Oblivion a couple got killed and some went over to Manimacro. The council was dissolved and Traven was the only archmage left.

Who had Travens seat before he came on the council is unknown.

A council of archmages? then how did traven get to decide about the necromancy issue. i was under the impression that there were a council and a leader (archmage) much like the empire.
Proweler is probly right. food for thought.

» Fri May 27, 2011 12:00 pm

There's just a few lines of random faction status related convo.

The Council has turned on Traven. Things couldn't possibly get any worse for the guild.

The Council of Mages has been dissolved. Arch-Mage Traven has been deserted. He's all we have left.

Without the Council of Mages to guide us, how will we stand up to the King of Worms?

Now I'm assuming this Councel of Mages is the Council of Archmagisters referred to in the Origins of the Mages Guild.

http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/origin_mages_guild.shtml

Though Oblivion treats the Arch-Mage as if there is only one.

Half of the Council of Mages resigned when Traven took over the position of Arch-Mage.

Some say that Traven is mis-using the power of the Arch-Mage's position to further his personal agendas.

Not only has Necromancy been banned from practice in the Mages Guild, but the Guild won't deal with anyone who openly uses it.

---

Gets a bit tedious when the books and the game are contradicting each other. I can see how the elements of the book ended up in the game, but I don't understand why the book has not been adjusted to match the new situation.

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:42 am

In my new role as Archmagister of the Mages Guild, it is my duty to set policy on this matter. Though I have my own opinions on the Black Arts, I took counsel with two of the most learned mages in the Empire, Magister Voth Karlyss of Corinth and Magister Ulliceta gra-Kogg of Orsinium, and we debated for two days.
-Former Archmage Hannibal Traven,The Black Arts on Trial

http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/black_arts_on_trial.shtml

What I mean by this,is simply what you said it's that books are contradicting the game.

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:30 am

How many Arch Mages are there? One for every Province?

» Fri May 27, 2011 2:49 am

How many Arch Mages are there? One for every Province?

I think that there is one archmagister for every province that are in the council.Traven is the emperor of the mages guild metaphorically speaking

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:30 am

I'm not sure who was the last Archmage, but I know that Trebonius was in the Cyrodiil branch of the Mages Guild, but got promoted to Vvardenfell Arch-Mage to get rid of him.

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:15 am

I Just think it's strange how every mage in the guild keeps complainng how Necromancy got booted out of the guild, or just talking about the serious impact the guild had because of Traven's Hard stance on necromany, but no one ever refers to a previous Arch mage at the head of the guild. No one ever says things like, "When Arch Mage Fakey was in power, this would've never happened", or something like that

» Fri May 27, 2011 3:05 am

Maybe it is taboo among the guild to discuss the previous Arch-Mage. Everyone wanted to forget Trebonius. Even though he was an idiot and an embarrassment to the guild to begin with.

» Fri May 27, 2011 3:47 pm

That's part of the problem.

In Morrowind Trebonius wasn't "The Arch-Mage", he was an Arch-Mage and one of many. While Oblivion has a council of mages, Traven is the only Arch-Mage.

» Fri May 27, 2011 12:35 pm

That's part of the problem.

In Morrowind Trebonius wasn't "The Arch-Mage", he was an Arch-Mage and one of many. While Oblivion has a council of mages, Traven is the only Arch-Mage.

Thing is, the guild is supposedly in disrepair. The whole necromancy ban + oblivion crisis (which is hard to put into timeline ATM tho) dissolved the guild almost completely. Falcar says it when you ask him about the guild. He tells you that the guild is still strong in Cyrodiil, but it was perhaps killed. I think the Necro ban was only the tip of the iceberg.

But as my signature says, I think Traven wasn't doing things wrong per-se. The guild was ridden with self-serving sorcerers and necromancers, he just wanted to clear it up. The rest of it is mostly gameplay/worldsize related IMHO.

» Fri May 27, 2011 12:19 pm

So who leads the Mages Guild? The Archmagister?

Magister as in law sense, of magus sense?

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:43 am

So who leads the Mages Guild? The Archmagister?

Magister as in law sense, of magus sense?

Archmage Traven before the player events, player after them. But as others sayed it was supposed to be a council of archmages. The thing is, I think that the other province archmages just didn't put up with the necro ban and gave Traven the finger. There's more to it than that tho, and I think Mannimarco's return has to do with it.

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:26 am

Archmage Traven before the player events, player after them. But as others sayed it was supposed to be a council of archmages. The thing is, I think that the other province archmages just didn't put up with the necro ban and gave Traven the finger. There's more to it than that tho, and I think Mannimarco's return has to do with it.

The Necro ban was in operation in Vvardenfell. There's a number of "go and kill blah, becuase blah is doign necro" quests given in the Guild.

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:05 am

I think the word "magister" just means "lord" in Latin, it doesn't refer to mages as far as I know.

» Fri May 27, 2011 2:31 am

What about Ocato? Didn't he have it, till he stepped down, and it got passed to Traven?

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:03 am

I think the word "magister" just means "lord" in Latin, it doesn't refer to mages as far as I know.

Well, they sound a little similar... Kinda.

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:14 am

Magister means teacher.

» Fri May 27, 2011 12:31 pm

The Necro ban was in operation in Vvardenfell. There's a number of "go and kill blah, becuase blah is doign necro" quests given in the Guild.

That may also be because the Temple outlaws necromancy and they don't want to cross the laws of the land.

» Fri May 27, 2011 1:46 pm

There's no nation that is trusting of necromancers is there, not counting Pyandonea and the Sload.

» Fri May 27, 2011 2:48 am

That may also be because the Temple outlaws necromancy and they don't want to cross the laws of the land.

It wasn't outlawed completely. An aspect of Dunmer ancestor worship was that it was considered honorable to raise the dead under certain circumstances. The Ghostwall was the most dramatic example, but there were also undead used to protect ancestral tombs and so forth.

My impression was that they never bothered to clarify whether Traven was the chief official of the Mages Guild for the entire Empire, or just for the province of Cyrodiil. Either interpretation leads to problems, which would need a minor retcon to resolve.

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:36 am

There's no nation that is trusting of necromancers is there, not counting Pyandonea and the Sload.

The Sload are necromancers and worship Mannimarco. And Morrowind gets their way because they are autonomous because of the treaty.

And to Foolish Owl, the Dunmer did not consider Bonewalkers necromancy.

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:46 pm

i was under the impression that there were a council and a leader (archmage) much like the empire.

I think this characterization is accurate. There's a council of mages who help decide the issues with Traven, but they aren't on the same level of authority with him. Half of them resigned when he reached the position of Archmage, leaving just Caranya and Irlav Jarol on the council.

The Council has turned on Traven. Things couldn't possibly get any worse for the guild.

The Council of Mages has been dissolved. Arch-Mage Traven has been deserted. He's all we have left.

Without the Council of Mages to guide us, how will we stand up to the King of Worms?

I'm almost positive that these quotes only show up after Caranya and Jerol take off with the Necromancer's Amulet and the Bloodworm Helm. Traven had the highest authority in the guild before all of that, there was just no council left afterwards.