So obviously we've all noticed everyone complaining about all of Skyrim's "mainstreaming" and "dumbing down". Now I've noticed that many people will consider Morrowind to be the best Elder Scrolls Game (or so it seems, I could be wrong...which would render this argument moot...).

Now Morrowind, on paper, seemed to be a huge step-down gameplay-wise (Classes became severely more generic, primary skills were removed, class talents were taken out, equipment advantages/restrictions, among other tings) Skills recieved a huge cut, etc.

Now once Morrowind came out, it was apperent that there were several other huge advantages over its predecessor (debatably), so I ask the question: Is the current Skyrim situation any different than the Daggerfall -> Morrowind step-up?

People are way overreacting. it's expected and each to his own but I prefer OB over MW and I'm certain I'll prefer Skyrim over OB.

There's streamlining (can be good) and dumbing down (bad), as far as I'm concerned Skyrim's more streamlined and accessible. That doesn't mean it'll be less deep or have less content, quite the opposite based on waht we've seen so far :shrug:

EDIT: It seems lots of people are like Stewie <_<

People complained that Morrowind was dumbed down from Daggerfall, that Oblivion was dumbed-down from Morrowind, and that Skyrim will be dumbed-down from Oblivion. So no, the situation isn't really different.

Reddit summed up this silly attitude that people have pretty nicely: http://i.imgur.com/GorSf.png

Some of the concerns are totally valid, some of the hype is valid too...but we don't know much about the game.

We have a general idea of concepts, but when you get right down to it, we haven't played the game yet. We can't yet judge it -- positively or negatively -- to the extent that we're doing.

What we've seen looks different, but it still looks like TES. For the time being, that's what matters to me.

I'll figure out what I like or what I don't like as soon as I've truly had the chance to sink my teeth into it.

I'm confused as to your last question. But I'll say this. The "dumbing down" is completely unfounded. They are just changing things up a bit, like they have done with every TES game in the series. Change does not always equal bad. People are scared by change. But once the changes become engrained in their being, Skyrim will become the new norm that TES are judged by. I'm not saying it will be better than Morrowind, but I believe it will be as good, and that's saying a lot. I just believe that since they have had more time in development, more time with the hardware and them learning from the terrible game that was Oblivion (yes, I loved Oblivion, but my love turned to hate fairly over time), all things point to Skyrim being an awesome sum of the parts of the games that came before it. So in short, change is not always bad, some of their changes are good, and Skyrim is going to be amazing. The end.

I've played them all and Morrowind is my least favorite by far. People just like to overeat and jump to conclusions, it's that simple.

Unfounded?

Well, when your favorite combat style gets watered down to the point where the damage may very well be static - or at best gets increased through stamina, I expect you to all be happy about it.

between my xbox original being dead (cant play morrowind goty now) and my original T for teen oblivion not reading on my 360...Im just happy Im gonna play a new elder scrolls game

Close to this sentiment. Morrowind was the true "mainstreaming/dumbing down" step of the series Oblivion was an extension of this barring all the problem of transitioning to full on console hardware programming and architectures and increased costs of full voice acting for all NPCs.

Streamlining isn't the definition that seems to be in vogue on this forum.

Skyrim's story is more of laziness, time, resource issues with many systems not getting the full overhaul they needed and getting ditched.

11.11.11 is rushed and Zenimax to BS to BGS know it. Cool date, but even Deus Ex:HR had to do a delay and that was for polishing/bug issues. They didn't even get to put ATMs back in.

In essence no the process isn't all that different from Daggerfall to Morrowind. The difference is after Oblivion Skyrim is assuredly better.

Morrowind was disappointing in the immediate launch compared to Daggerfall solely on RPG merits.

Gameplay wise Skyrim seems to "beat" all previous Elder Scrolls games by far. Yes some people talk about even gameplay being dumbed down, but from what I've seen so far, it seems a lot more solid and fun compared to previous.

What people like about Morrowind, is how different and strange the world, story and lore was. If you never played it, go look at some youtube videos and notice how strange things look, huge mushrooms and such. Oblivion in comparison was just normal trees and plants everywhere.
In Oblivion and Skyrim you fight wolves and rats, in Morrowind you fight Nixhounds and Cliff Racers. So its basically that Morrowind feels a lot more fantasy like compared to Oblivion and Skyrim.
When it comes to story and lore, Morrowind had lots of different houses (clans) which each had a different story and a reason for doing what they did. Oblivion in this regard felt much more flat.

I'm not actually a person who has played Morrowind all that much, so I am sure there are some who has spent several hundreds of hours in Vvardenfell who could elaborate a bit more on just why the world of Vvardenfell was so awesome.
Only time will tell what Skyrim brings in terms of a lively world, with a deep story to it.

I began playing with Morrowind. I bought both expansions and was a particular fan of Blood Moon. I'm a werewolf fan (Think White Wolf PnP games, though Underworld wasn't too bad) and I thought how it was done in Morrowind was great.

Oblivion had better graphics to be sure, but Morrowind was simply better than Oblivion in every other way IMO. Even when it came to talking to people and, if you were skilled enough, could get them to attack you first.

Now the last I checked, just before writing this, it seems that twice the people who have played Dagger Fall and Morrowind prefer Morrowind than the other way around. The same can be said for those that have played Morrowind and Oblivion. I'm curious as to why Morrowind seems to have been the most popular out of the three....

That was the point of this entire topic. At first Morrowind seemed to be a huge-step down from its gameplay elements (the aforementioned RPG elements) but ended up being an great game in its own merits. Skyrim seems, to some, to be a degredation in the series, but is in fact in the same boat as the Daggerfall Morrowind conversion.

I personally believe Skyrim will be the most fun Elder Scrolls game. Not necessarily the best - just the most fun.

Most of the people haven't even played the game. It's an overreaction. Come 11-11-11 we'll all be fat dumb and happy playing Skywind and loving it

I didn't vote in the poll because I think the answers are irrelevant to the topic at hand (opinion-based).

People don't like change. Skyrim was changed from Oblivion which was changed from Morrowind which was changed from Daggerfall which was changed from Arena. People don't like change, but change is necessary for the survival of anything -- including The Elder Scrolls.

The phrase, "dumbing-down" is a cheap shot used by some people in an attempt to feel superior over those who haven't been with the series as long. The Elder Scrolls will still be The Elder Scrolls at the end of the day, it's just going to have a different smell.

Is there a more apt way to phrase it for the poll's sake?

This. Long story short, lotta people are over-reacting.

Lol, I'm actually hitting refresh as the votes come in. Ratio isn't changing much.

Since it's a bit obvious how I 'voted' for the first two by what I said in my last post. For the third...I'll decide when I get to play it.

In terms of sales and overall playerbase Oblivion is the most popular. In general between TES fans from the 2000s seen on these forums who've played Oblivion and Morrowind. Oblivion does win out because of the proportion. People who think their purer TES fans or sole RPG fans are usually those Morrowind fans as many are vocal.


However I've played both Daggerfall in itsrespective release in the 90s thoroughly and then Arena though I dabelled in Arena near its launch. Just never interested me enough to buy it especially with the amazing games from better RPG devs. I wouldn't consider myself a TES fan either.

Both Arena/Daggerfall/every other main TES game essentially mechanic rips off Wasteland. Not that Interplay didn't innovate boat loads more.

But to me barring the world itself Daggerfall was a fairly superior RPG and Morrowind was a large step down.

In terms of RPG mechanics Skyrim is more so than Morrowind.

However after FO 3 Skyrim is the right track for BGS.

The last question is fine, but the first two questions don't really add anything to the discussion. I suppose they would give you a better sense of which games people prefer over the other and you could check those answers against thread posts, but that's a lot of work lol.

I think it's intending to get the feel of a trend over several games. A "dumbing down" from Daggerfall to present, as it were.

That's a difficult comparison. The market was vastly different when Arena came out than when Oblivion came out. What people wanted in games was also quite different. You were still at the tail end of the era when PC gamers were a more select group of people than they are now, and difficult games were still very much appreciated by a large portion of that market. When Daggerfall came out the market had already started to change to what we saw more of in the early 2000s. Oblivion's release was an entirely new market again, not to mention the fact it was also released on PC and console, whereas the first two were PC-only.

i think the key to this issue is to take everything with a grain of salt. you gotta remember that this is a forum, and that half the draw of it is an opportunity to talk about this or that.

an argumentative attitude will give you a lot more chances to talk...

Please no one beat me up for saying this, but I actually don't mind the quest markers. They give you the option of having them if your stuck and you don't have to see them if you don't like having things handed to you.

Either you are very upset about this, or you are copying and pasting this response to every thread that's relevent. Or both. Either way we get it. But i promise you; you'll get to punch things to death. AND get better at punching things to death.