A question for all Brink fans

Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:31 am

The conflict begs questions about property norms and entitlement. How many times here have you seen someone make the argument "the resistance deserve as much in not more because they do all the hard work," etc etc.

So this sort of ethical divide- who do the resources belong to, rightfully? The person that owns the property from whence they came (capitalism), or the people who put the work in to produce them, coupled with who needs them more (communism)? Does ownership of property entitle you to any and everything that is produced on that property thereafter, or, are people entitled to what they produce themselves, regardless of title?

Keep in mind that state communism doesn't and never has functioned like the real hardcoe Marxists that are still around today want it to. It's not real communism to them unless there is no state. It's not really a matter of egalitarian division of resources and the old sickle and hammer junk, it's all about worker-owned means of production now, with no hierarchies politically, socially or otherwise.

And yes, it is just as messed up and muddy as any other path of idealism. -_-


Fair points, there. I suppose the Resistance could be considered practically communist, Marxist, or socialist. They call for equal distribution of resources, but we know nothing of their leadership system. If they support one all-powerful charismatic leader then they'd be communists like how they have played out in the real world. If they have zero influential figures, but all pitch in a part to keep the Ark going, then they'd be Marxists. Socialism is a broad scope, though, basically the middle ground between the two. I think they'll probably turn out to be democratic socialists.
Although, maybe not. With the founders being dictators and all, maybe they wont represent democracy. If they did that, then most people would take sides with the Resistance, most likely. I donno. It's a toughie to call. We'll have to play the game to see.
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Mario Alcantar
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:25 am

The conflict begs questions about property norms and entitlement. How many times here have you seen someone make the argument "the resistance deserve as much in not more because they do all the hard work," etc etc.

So this sort of ethical divide- who do the resources belong to, rightfully? The person that owns the property from whence they came (capitalism), or the people who put the work in to produce them, coupled with who needs them more (communism)? Does ownership of property entitle you to any and everything that is produced on that property thereafter, or, are people entitled to what they produce themselves, regardless of title?

Keep in mind that state communism doesn't and never has functioned like the real hardcoe Marxists that are still around today want it to. It's not real communism to them unless there is no state. It's not really a matter of egalitarian division of resources and the old sickle and hammer junk, it's all about worker-owned means of production now, with no hierarchies politically, socially or otherwise.

And yes, it is just as messed up and muddy as any other path of idealism. -_-


Ahhh, Interesting points, thanks for reppin marx and yeah, it translates perfectly and is probably meant to translate perfectly into the idea of the class struggle. :] The showstopper arguement between capitalism/marxism is the question, which no one can answer and being wrong in either case would eventually destroy our societies, do we have enough resources for everyone to be happy if we did this [censored]. Because if there are six apples and two people why the [censored] would you fight over them.

On the ark, no one is sure of the answer but the resistance MUST believe there is enough for everyone (land left on earth) because otherwise they will be left to destitution and disease, whatsmore both societies will inevitably collapse. The security MUST believe there is not because the risk is too great and thus the only hope lies in waiting for...something else to save them, or simply enjoying the ride.

Both sides have equally valid considerations and represent a basic choice a human being must explore(yes, no)

Shame they couldnt settle it like these guys...

http://movie2s.com/images/FuturamaBendersGame2008.jpg

"Dont bother yourself with ideals, go out there, play the game and have fun!"

I can imagine Ed Stern saying that.


...I can imagine Ed Stern dry [censored] a cactus but it wont help my argument. A game/book/movie is fun because of suspension of disbelief, exploration of this is done by everyone and in many different ways. Just let it go brah brah. :]
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Elea Rossi
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:32 pm

"Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me." Good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." tyvm Ferris Bueller for a fantastic statement :P
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pinar
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:05 pm

it's about a bunch of game designers that were sick of crappy games like cod and halo and decided to make a game that doesn't actually svck.


Halo wasnt that crappy, well not as crappy as CoD

And I think the same way as JOORG
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Jeff Tingler
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:40 am

"Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me." Good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." tyvm Ferris Bueller for a fantastic statement :P

I think it's very difficult to not label yourself as an "-ist" when it comes to political matters, unless you really, really don't care at all. Everyone has an opinion. when it comes to religious matters I agree 100%, though, because religion is not something that can be debated and settled, so attaching yourself to one "-ism" set of religious beliefs isn't the right attitude to take with it. (I wonder if religion will be explored in Brink?) I'm going to quote Bill Maher, " The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is not the arrogant certitude that is the hallmark of religion, but doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting [censored] dead wrong."

Edit: I'd just like to add, what a brilliant conversation this is :) there's barely a forum on the internet where you can discuss the political and religious intentions of a video game without being flamed to death. I salute you, Bethesda's Brink Forum!!
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R.I.P
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:09 pm

"Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me." Good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." tyvm Ferris Bueller for a fantastic statement :P


You sir, are awesome.




I get the Communist/Capitalist tone, the civil war tone, the environmental message but they all seem to be background for an awesome game.
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Davorah Katz
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:27 pm

You sir, are awesome.




I get the Communist/Capitalist tone, the civil war tone, the environmental message but they all seem to be background for an awesome game.



The environmental message: Dont build ecologically advanced resort societies unless theyre completely underwater, everyone is heavily dependent on drugs, and your name is Andrew Ryan. We should always ask ourselves, "what would Andrew Ryan do?"


(The answer is hire a private army of teleporting free basers and predatory dwarf women.
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Dan Endacott
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:26 pm

I think it's very difficult to not label yourself as an "-ist" when it comes to political matters, unless you really, really don't care at all. Everyone has an opinion. when it comes to religious matters I agree 100%, though, because religion is not something that can be debated and settled, so attaching yourself to one "-ism" set of religious beliefs isn't the right attitude to take with it. (I wonder if religion will be explored in Brink?) I'm going to quote Bill Maher, " The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is not the arrogant certitude that is the hallmark of religion, but doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting [censored] dead wrong."

Edit: I'd just like to add, what a brilliant conversation this is :) there's barely a forum on the internet where you can discuss the political and religious intentions of a video game without being flamed to death. I salute you, Bethesda's Brink Forum!!

To quote Matthew from 100 girls "There are just to many "-ists" in the world! Feminist, chauvernists, capitalists, communists, racists and sixists. These are all groups that fight one another instead of trying to understand one another. I think that the only "-ists" there should be are humanists"

Bingo problem solved, lets all become humanists so the Resistance can leave with some rations and Security can live out their peaceful lives in self sustained living... only issue is that we then get no game and dont get to shoot people... ahh screw it lets do this thing :P

It is nice to have some intellectual conversations for a change that dont get ruined by people with little to no intellect or understanding of the world :D


You sir, are awesome.




I get the Communist/Capitalist tone, the civil war tone, the environmental message but they all seem to be background for an awesome game.

Cheers and yeah regardless of the underlying messages/tones it's still going to be a brilliant game :D

[edit] sorry for the sarcasm.
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Curveballs On Phoenix
 
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