Ive been reading posts and alot of people are requesting no compass and no quest markers. Is this to add to realism and RPG, UI clutter or something else?

not critiquing..just curious.

There are a lot of people that feel the quest markers equate to hand holding. Rather than having to put forth any effort to follow directions or figure anything out, the game just tells you exactly where to go.

Yep, and I understand that completely. I think we shouldn't worry too much though. From what I could tell from the G4 demo, I couldn't see a quest marker. I seriously think the spell clairvoyance will be a good replacement for quest markers.

I don't mind at all the compass and all that but if i remember correctly people said it was more realistic to just to be told where and look on a map to see which direction to go and just walk which would add to exploring a lot more i guess

So is the clairvoyance spell the a way that quest markers were made optional?

I'm fine with there being a compass, I'd just prefer it to be at the bottom of the screen personally. I'd also like to disable quest markers, as it does sort of ruin the sense of discovery.

cool thanks..very interesting..yeah i can see how that would be cool and just gives you more realism and probably discover more of the vast landscape as well. In the past ive played RPG games 'semi-rpg' but im really thinking of fully immersing myself with SR.

Clairvoyance does seem to be the way to make it optional.

The problem in Oblivion was that you were given very little direction in where to go, for the most part, save for the quest marker. This meant that if you ignored the quest marker, you would, most of the time, be lost. It was either know exactly where you're going to go, or have no clue.

In Morrowind, you were generally given road directions and landmarks for quests. This meant the player had to use their head. However, in recent years, it would appear that people are far less intelligent, and as such may require the game to think for them, a la clairvoyance.

I'll be happy so long as I have a reasonable chance of completing quests without using clairvoyance i.e. good land marks and directions.

A compass is fine with me, and i don't feel like it should be removed. The quest marker on the another hand should be removed (In my opinion... Of course) as i often found myself walking in a straight line towards the objective.

Gonna keep it very short:

I dislike compass icons because they eliminate the chance of being surprised by finding a hidden dungeon or stuff like that (which is otherwise very rewarding and fun).
I dislike quest markers because they hold your hand as if you couldn't think for yourself and they turn quests into a way that makes you feel like a mindless robot.

I totally agree with this statement, ive seen too many games 'dumbed down' and trivialized for the instant-gratification generation of gamers nowdays..the latest victim to this is the horrible DA2 which was a complete disappointment.

I agree with you, and the compass ICONS should be removed, but not the compass itself. Cause if a quest npc tells you that the item you need to find (Or whatever...) is north, you would be like "Yeah, great... Where the f*** is north? ( Not trying to say that it's what you meant, it's just that i've seen several say that they want the compass gone).

the new spell is a great option, i reckon it should be like morrowind with telling you, while the compass should be a toggle, in the options.

Thankfully I played the demo.

I enjoyed it, but not enough to warrant a purchase. It certainly was not Dragon Age, either.

It seems to the be the overarching direction with games, and indeed many other things these days. 'Lowest common denominator' is a term I hear with increasing frequency in regards to this.

I have faith in Bethesda. They'll make the right decisions. All this whining about what people aren't happy about is dreadful, and despite knowing why they're worried, I still find it pathetic. Not a lot is confirmed yet.

The lack of a quest marker will do for now.

AND IF ANYONE DARES MENTION 'IMMERSION' OR ANYTHING SIMILAR, I WILL CUT OUT YOUR EYES WITH A RUSTY SPOON. Sickening word.

This.

Maybe once you find a dungeon it could be marked on your map but before that there will be on marker or any sign that its there. And to find it you literally have to be next to the entrace.

Quest markers just make quests boring and hold the player's hand like hes 5 years old. I want challenge and and thought in my quests.

I enjoy the way they do it in Morrowind...tell you somewhat vague directions. I don't plan on using the spell that shows the direction in Skyrim. I want to just find my own way.

Though i dislike quest markers, i think we have to address the issues that arise from the fact Radiant Story is allowed to change quest location at its own free will.
Would quest givers dialogue be recorded for every single possible quest location?
Don't think so.
Would the ?Let me mark it on your map? line sound appropriate in a 3D virtual map?
Probably not.

So, to me, toggable quest markers are currently the lesser evil.

I hate quest markers, but with radiant story it's impossible not to have 'em. so :shrug:

Instead of having one on the HUD, I would rather just have like a marker on your map that you have to pull up in order to see it so you can't just go in a straight line towards it.

Hand-holding heh?

Maybe we shouldn't have built-in maps at all. Just force everyone to draw their own maps by hand like in the SNES days.

Fake difficulty is not fun. I have no idea why we have some many people who's sole goal in life is to go on the forums and tell everyone else that they are weak, pathetic dumb, etc. That somehow TES as a game is too easy and that anything that makes the game experience more entertaining is somehow pandering to "normal people" compared to the MASTER RACE gamers who playing blindfolded with the sound effects turned off.

You want a harder game, I get it. But I am sick of being insulted in the process.

I will say this about the compass and compass icons.

The most memorable experiences I've had in F:NV have come after I modded the compass out. Since then, I've had a number of fights that I barely walk away from (or sometimes run away from) because I had no idea there was an enemy around the corner. And yes, enemies will be showing up on the compass in Skyrim. You can see them in the gameplay demo.

You must have amazing eyes, I don't see any. I'm looking at when he fought the bandit with two swords, there is no marker indicating he is there.

Also, Todd mentions that the thief has taken a golden claw, and your after it. If there were quest markers, we would see a marker right where the thief is, instead all we see is the "S" for south.

:bowdown: Thats exactly what I, and dozens of other people are probably thinking.
Anywho, I want a toggleable compass and quest markers, the clairvoyance spell seems very useful when I remove quest markers and the compass (they both seem to make it to easy to find your way around, I want to get lost every once in a while, and finding dungeons and settlements would be much more surprising and satisfying). Those who want the compass and quest marker get it, those who don't, don't. It's a win-win so I don't see why anyone would not want that.

I don't specifically think anyone singled you out. It was just a broad stroke with a poisonous paint brush.


Back on topic. My theory is that the clairvoyance spell has a limited range ( might improve with perks) and will work only inside closed cells, dungeons, ruins, cities etc, or if you are reasonably close to an undiscovered entrance in the outside world. Once you get a questline started, then a marker is put on the 3D map, though you may not be able to see the underlying topographics if its an area you haven't travelled into yet. You use the compass to guide you in the general direction, and once you are close enough, you use the spell if needed. IF means your choice, not automatic. Think its a great idea... and miles ahead of the "just follow the all knowing compass" approach of Oblivion. I don't see this change as "dumbing down" at all....

Watch the fight with the wolves. That's where I noticed it, anyways.